Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Reecemartin]

Though I think the route is zoned for a lot less density? One big benefit of focusing around Surrey Central is densification. Something that Surrey wants mainly along the L Line.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Though I think the route is zoned for a lot less density? One big benefit of focusing around Surrey Central is densification. Something that Surrey wants mainly along the L Line.

The Fraser Highway extension would be more of a long transit hub.

[Mac Write]

When will we need to start dividing up SkyTrain lines so that they are separate physically from eachother to reduce train stalls on one line killing the system etc? Columbia I know could use a Terminas 3rd track so either we could have VCC-Clark - Columbia or even King George - Douglas.

As the system get bigger (UBC > Douglas and Waterfront to Langley, or even longer term Langely to SFU via waterfront (if that side of the station is extended).

What are the plans long term for the Skytrain line past Langely and UBC?

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

When will we need to start dividing up SkyTrain lines so that they are separate physically from eachother to reduce train stalls on one line killing the system etc? Columbia I know could use a Terminas 3rd track so either we could have VCC-Clark - Columbia or even King George - Douglas.

As the system get bigger (UBC > Douglas and Waterfront to Langley, or even longer term Langely to SFU via waterfront (if that side of the station is extended).

What are the plans long term for the Skytrain line past Langely and UBC?

Do you mean Langley to SFU Burnaby? That would be one heck of a long line and I don't see it as likely to occur.

Vancouver doesn't really have a long-term SkyTrain network concept from what I've seen. Edmonton and Montreal do, and Calgary has some future ideas, but Toronto is always so delayed that any of the "upcoming" projects are long term (i.e. the Sheppard East LRT has been funded and defunded time and time again and now it looks like it'll be defunded). Vancouver is on a pretty "as need arises" basis which sucks because generally a new SkyTrain route opens every 7 years or so (Expo 1986, Scott Road 1990, King George 1994, Millennium Line 2002, Canada Line 2009, Evergreen 2016) but often the line was needed since long before opening day. The North Shore is desperately trying to get their B-Line BUSES (3 of them, one along the North Shore and 1 for each bridge crossing) and their traffic is massive, so how prepared we are to undertake more rapid rail transit remains unseen (Broadway Subway at this point is more-or-less "we cannot fit any more buses on the road without severe performance drops so we have to build a SkyTrain").

Overall though no new talk of SkyTrain extensions but often B-Lines can be clues (future B-Lines can be found online). I personally feel that within the next 10-15 years some form of rapid transit will occur on the 95 B-Line route or a SkyTrain to the North Shore in some way (maybe not tunnel, but perhaps beside the current bridges). TransLink is now looking at upgrading B-Lines to BRT systems so I expect this to take the place of SkyTrain extensions for a while as in the past it's always been B-Line then SkyTrain but a middle step in there with higher capacity and faster speeds that can build up transit demand and TOD in that corridor will prove itself worthwhile.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

Do you mean Langley to SFU Burnaby? That would be one heck of a long line and I don't see it as likely to occur.

Vancouver doesn't really have a long-term SkyTrain network concept from what I've seen. Edmonton and Montreal do, and Calgary has some future ideas, but Toronto is always so delayed that any of the "upcoming" projects are long term (i.e. the Sheppard East LRT has been funded and defunded time and time again and now it looks like it'll be defunded). Vancouver is on a pretty "as need arises" basis which sucks because generally a new SkyTrain route opens every 7 years or so (Expo 1986, Scott Road 1990, King George 1994, Millennium Line 2002, Canada Line 2009, Evergreen 2016) but often the line was needed since long before opening day. The North Shore is desperately trying to get their B-Line BUSES (3 of them, one along the North Shore and 1 for each bridge crossing) and their traffic is massive, so how prepared we are to undertake more rapid rail transit remains unseen (Broadway Subway at this point is more-or-less "we cannot fit any more buses on the road without severe performance drops so we have to build a SkyTrain").

Overall though no new talk of SkyTrain extensions but often B-Lines can be clues (future B-Lines can be found online). I personally feel that within the next 10-15 years some form of rapid transit will occur on the 95 B-Line route or a SkyTrain to the North Shore in some way (maybe not tunnel, but perhaps beside the current bridges). TransLink is now looking at upgrading B-Lines to BRT systems so I expect this to take the place of SkyTrain extensions for a while as in the past it's always been B-Line then SkyTrain but a middle step in there with higher capacity and faster speeds that can build up transit demand and TOD in that corridor will prove itself worthwhile.

If you really want to make B Lines faster, set up light priority that turns the light green whenever they get near an intersection. Sucks for other drivers but makes the B line a quick way to get anywhere.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

If you really want to make B Lines faster, set up light priority that turns the light green whenever they get near an intersection. Sucks for other drivers but makes the B line a quick way to get anywhere.

Yes, that is called traffic signal priority and is literally part of the plan.

[Gordon]

It would be nice if B Lines & other express routes(44 & 84) had signal priority to aid with on time performance.

[Xrayal]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

....rapid transit will occur on the 95 B-Line route or a SkyTrain to the North Shore in some way (maybe not tunnel, but perhaps beside the current bridges).

My pick is Skytrain along Hastings to Kootenay loop. Then Gondola from Kootenay to Phibbs exchange.

[ilikeredheads]

Due to geographical limitations and the massive costs associated with it, I am very doubtful we will see skytrain across the Burrard Inlet at all.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Xrayal

My pick is Skytrain along Hastings to Kootenay loop. Then Gondola from Kootenay to Phibbs exchange.

I think Skytrain on Hastings would be an important strategic catalyst for urban renewal in the DTES. However it will also be confrontational divisive and unwelcomed by many of the local residents. Despite that it may be the best possible path for address some of the challenges that community faces.

Beyond the DTES there are good amount of land along and near Hastings that could be rezoned on the Vancouver side.

Not certain why you would stop and Kooteny Loop. Burnaby has been the most aggressive in building density along skytrain lins.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

When will we need to start dividing up SkyTrain lines so that they are separate physically from eachother to reduce train stalls on one line killing the system etc? Columbia I know could use a Terminas 3rd track so either we could have VCC-Clark - Columbia or even King George - Douglas.

As the system get bigger (UBC > Douglas and Waterfront to Langley, or even longer term Langely to SFU via waterfront (if that side of the station is extended).

What are the plans long term for the Skytrain line past Langely and UBC?

There's a stub track at Coquitlam Central for a future extension out towards Port Coquitlam. I don't realistically foresee it extending across the bridge into Pitt Meadows unless something drastic happens with the agricultural land reserve areas there.

[Reecemartin]

One thing that I believe to be a realistic prediction is the eventual reconfiguartion of LTC and Col. such that the Expo branch between the two can be converted to a short shuttle line (I'll be the first to coin it the "Fraser" Line). That way Expo can send all it's trains to Langley/Surrey as this branch will be a pain when that extension happens. In order to deal with the issue of more crowded trains from Surrey being an issue I would simply suggest doing what many other cities do and short-turn some trains before the bridge. I also would advocate short turning a significant number of trains at KGB or at least mid way on the Fraser Hwy extension, frankly I don't think Langley needs a train every three minutes (at least not initially) 6-12 minute frequencies should be plenty especially on what will then be a fairly long line.


TLDR: Remove branches on Expo and convert LTC branch to a shuttle line reconfiguring Columbia and LTC. M and E now run one route each. Short turn trains at a few points along the E line in order to keep service frequency very high on the oldest sections of the Expo Line.

[MIPS]

What is there for consideration for future line twinning and express trains?
The Expo Line will eventually become far too congested to be able to drop another train into the loop but currently I'm only aware of three stations in the entire system that have been built to support more than two platforms.

[nname]

Originally Posted by MIPS

What is there for consideration for future line twinning and express trains?
The Expo Line will eventually become far too congested to be able to drop another train into the loop but currently I'm only aware of three stations in the entire system that have been built to support more than two platforms.

At that point, it's probably cheaper, easier, and more beneficial just to build another line...

Why express train though? It actually decreases capacity...

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by nname

At that point, it's probably cheaper, easier, and more beneficial just to build another line...

Why express train though? It actually decreases capacity...

There are some stations that hardly have enough passengers boarding/alighting during peak hours to justify a stop.

[Mac Write]

I have been putting allot of thought into our current+14 Mark III trains ordered and how best to use them. Once they are online this is how things will look.
•25 Mark I trains 6-car trains
•21 Mark III Series 1 4-car trains
•12 Mark II Series 2 4-car trains
•18 Mark II Series 1 2-car trains
•6 Mark II series 1 4-car trains
What I would like to see, is all series 1 Mark I trains goto Millennium line (until UBC line opens) providing 30 2-car trains and then that will leave 12 Series 2 trains on the Expo line along with 21 Series 3 and 25 Series 1.

They could (if the computer allows it) assign Mark II/III to King George and Mark I to VCC Clark.

Any other ideas on how to divide up the rolling stock to keep the varies series of trains constant?

[waves]

Originally Posted by MIPS

What is there for consideration for future line twinning and express trains?
The Expo Line will eventually become far too congested to be able to drop another train into the loop but currently I'm only aware of three stations in the entire system that have been built to support more than two platforms.

How many 6 car trains would it take to max out the number of trains running on the expo line at the smallest headway?

[nname]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

There are some stations that hardly have enough passengers boarding/alighting during peak hours to justify a stop.

Having more service pattern will actually decrease capacity. You're essentially increase travel time on the local trains (they will need to wait longer at stations for express train to pass) to reduce time on express train, but with extra headway added for the train to switch tracks. With all these added complexity, there's more chances for service breakdown too. Not sure what's accomplished here...

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

I have been putting allot of thought into our current+14 Mark III trains ordered and how best to use them. Once they are online this is how things will look.
•25 Mark I trains 6-car trains
•21 Mark III Series 1 4-car trains
•12 Mark II Series 2 4-car trains
•18 Mark II Series 1 2-car trains
•6 Mark II series 1 4-car trains
What I would like to see, is all series 1 Mark I trains goto Millennium line (until UBC line opens) providing 30 2-car trains and then that will leave 12 Series 2 trains on the Expo line along with 21 Series 3 and 25 Series 1.

They could (if the computer allows it) assign Mark II/III to King George and Mark I to VCC Clark.

Any other ideas on how to divide up the rolling stock to keep the varies series of trains constant?

The plan for the first 28 cars (7 trains) was to allocate them to Expo Line and move 8 MkII cars (4 trains) to Millennium Line. This will allow Expo Line to run at 2min/6min headway (from 2.22min/6.67min today) and Millennium Line to run at 3min (from 3.33min).

Not sure about the next 28... I guess if they move 8 more to Millennium Line, then the Expo Line can run at 1.8min/5.4min and Millennium Line at 2.7min... Back to the same 108s headway it had before?

[ClaytonA]

Hastings St Olympic lanes in 2010 had the biggest time savings. The line should continue east and take over the Evergreen Line's proposed southern option (IIRC Como Lake).

What about a median aligned LRT on the Trans Canada from Carvolth through to Phibbs Exchange similar to the ones in Calgary (i.e. grade separated by concrete barriers essentially on the highway taking up 2 lanes of traffic). The LRT is what, the equivalent of 4 lanes of traffic each way? i.e. 4 x 2 directions x 2,000 vehicles. It would be a pretty big start boosting 2nd Narrows capacity with usefull regional connectivity.A new transfer station west of Gilmore would be required, slightly diversion/change at Braid, but otherwise relatively cheap construction on existing structures. Some stations would include park and rides, already existing bus loops, etc.

This doesn't fix east-west on the Shore. A second Sea Bus route from the Ambleside Pier direct to Waterfront and returning via Lonsdale? Transitway for buses on Marine-3rd to Dollarton Hwy or Marine-Keith to Mt Seymour Parkway?