Winnipeg | | Downtown | True North Square | U/C - Page 187

trueviking · #**3721** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 1:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm with Wigglez, newer buildings built flush to the street are too rare downtown. Obviously if TNS involves brick walls along all the sidewalks (like at Cityplace across the street) then it'll be an urbanism fail, but if there are some windows and doors to animate the streetscape a bit then I think it'll work out just fine.

not just windows, but actual entrances to ground floor commercial space....portage place has windows all the way down and it is a street killer. It pulled all the activity off the sidewalk and into the mall....if TNS is designed with all the access points from the centre it will have the same effect.

oftheMoon · #**3722** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 4:42 PM**

The CTV building on the north side of Hargrave killed that half of the block and Tavern doesn't do much to add to street presence either. TNS could have helped that but it could end up feeling like a tunnel.

esquire · #**3723** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 5:09 PM**

^ I hate what the CTV building did to Graham and Carlton. Having main-floor parking is one thing if it's hidden away, but the way it's wide open there makes it feel like there is a permanent surface parking lot on that corner. Tavern United is 100% better in terms of how it interacts with the street.

blue4life · #**3724** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 7:36 PM**

Random thought here... but has anyone else had the thought that TN might buy up the land (I think it's the RWB dormitory??) on the southwest portion of Graham and Carlton (if they haven't already), and finish off their "square" with perhaps their flagship (and hopefully tallest) tower?

esquire · #**3725** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue4life

Random thought here... but has anyone else had the thought that TN might buy up the land (I think it's the RWB dormitory??) on the southwest portion of Graham and Carlton (if they haven't already), and finish off their "square" with perhaps their flagship (and hopefully tallest) tower?

I speculated about this a while back, but it does not appear to be in the cards based on the responses.

I could see it happening some day, though... I think it's the only part of the block they don't own. It would not be that difficult to build another residence somewhere nearby (one could even incorporated into a new tower development). If and when demand ever materializes for another phase of TNS, that would be the most logical way to do it IMO.

Wigglez · #**3726** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I hate what the CTV building did to Graham and Carlton. Having main-floor parking is one thing if it's hidden away, but the way it's wide open there makes it feel like there is a permanent surface parking lot on that corner. Tavern United is 100% better in terms of how it interacts with the street.

I like living in a fantasy world where TNS will push them to develop that parking lot into a retail space. Could be a great little space for a cafe or something!

The spot has SO much potential... Hydro building, TNS, and BellMTS surround this spot... They have a 6 story parkade right beside them just use that for god sake...

esquire · #**3727** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 9:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigglez

I like living in a fantasy world where TNS will push them to develop that parking lot into a retail space. Could be a great little space for a cafe or something!

The spot has SO much potential... Hydro building, TNS, and BellMTS surround this spot... They have a 6 story parkade right beside them just use that for god sake...

Agreed. It is frustrating that they can't find a way to use the parkade next door and develop that parking space instead. An arrangement like that would never see the light of day today.

Wolf13 · #**3728** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 9:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

The concern is not that it is built to the property line...That is what should happen...The concern is what happens at the ground floor. It appears that all the focus is to the centre of the site and the actual streets become dead zones....hopefully that is not the case, but if it is, the design deserves to be criticized....sacrificing two major streets for an internal plaza is not good design....it will do what portage place did in that case.

but hopefully the street edges are not treated as the backs of the buildings and it is all good.

Correct in principle, but who, in our tight market, is going to spend extra money for "street presence" that is already thoroughly killed by City Place on Hargrave? TNS was preaching rental premium of up to $7psf higher than leading office buildings (ie 360 Main post re-glazing) than from commercial office tenants to make this project feasible. SEVEN.

That's completely unprecedented, and almost a 100% higher over some very good downtown office space. I'm not sure they have entrances and such there, but by golly if they don't, I understand.

I get the theory you're advocating, it isn't "good design", but if there is NO current street presence on Hargrave and Graham, and they actually are building their project on the premise of public plaza space. All those dollars are going into the middle. There isn't much to salvage on the street, but a blank slate in the middle of the lot itself.

However, as mentioned before, Cartlton should see a big boost, and that corner views Hydro better than TNS views the MTS centre.

BigG · #**3729** Posted **Jan 5, 2018, 9:44 PM**

Next page.

Biff · #**3730** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 2:38 PM**

5 more floors to go.

bomberjet · #**3731** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 2:59 PM**

Carlton Ave to be closed this week for crane work according to the City website. Crane coming down?

BigG · #**3732** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 4:43 PM**

Has there been any site prep for the Sutton towers? Will they be using the same cranes?

esquire · #**3733** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 4:49 PM**

^ It appears that the former Carlton Inn site is still going strong as the staging site for TNS. No obvious indications that construction will be under way there anytime soon.

I wonder what they'll do to stage the Sutton Place towers? The most obvious answer would be to lease the cathedral's space across the street and then just redo the parking lot/landscape the green space, but that could end up costing a pretty penny. Other than that they'd have to squeeze it into the construction site itself.

roccerfeller · #**3734** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

5 more floors to go.

looks like it will be similar height to the tower portion of the hydro building. not bad!

bomberjet · #**3735** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 5:46 PM**

There's a couple mobile cranes setting up on Carlton. The larger one is out of the camera view.

esquire · #**3736** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

looks like it will be similar height to the tower portion of the hydro building. not bad!

Yeah, it's turning out to be more formidable on the skyline than I expected it to be. For some reason in my mind's eye I was expecting something like the Delta in terms of height, but the residential building certainly is going to tower over it. It looks big when you walk up or down Carlton St.

CoryB · #**3737** Posted **Jan 8, 2018, 6:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wigglez

They have a 6 story parkade right beside them just use that for god sake...

I would guess there is a height clearance issue with some of the CTV vehicles such as the remote broadcast unit that make it unsuitable for most parkades.

In terms of the RWB residence, considering the rehearsal space, offices and parking lot are on the other side of block I doubt they are interested in moving anywhere. If Longboat/True North is serious about developing that block and building a residence replacement into something new the time to act would be now. Come to an agreement to temporarily house the residence in the TNS residential tower on the northwest corner while the construction happens on the current site.

factis · #**3738** Posted **Jan 9, 2018, 1:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There's a couple mobile cranes setting up on Carlton. The larger one is out of the camera view.

Anyone have an idea what it costs to bring in a unit like that to remove a tower crane? Looks like they will have to do it on two separate occasions for this project.

cllew · #**3739** Posted **Jan 9, 2018, 1:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by factis

Anyone have an idea what it costs to bring in a unit like that to remove a tower crane? Looks like they will have to do it on two separate occasions for this project.

I would not be surprised based on what prices are published on the internet for Western Canada that you could be looking at between $500 to $1400 per hour. The cost seems to differ not so much on the height of the boom but the length of the jib. I guess the longer the jib the more counter weights that are required and that ups the cost.

There is also a cost to mobilize and demobilize on the site. Being that it's PCL there may be discount on the published rate card but its still expensive.

Bluenote · #**3740** Posted **Jan 9, 2018, 4:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It appears that the former Carlton Inn site is still going strong as the staging site for TNS. No obvious indications that construction will be under way there anytime soon.

I wonder what they'll do to stage the Sutton Place towers? The most obvious answer would be to lease the cathedral's space across the street and then just redo the parking lot/landscape the green space, but that could end up costing a pretty penny. Other than that they'd have to squeeze it into the construction site itself.

There are some parking lots they could possible lease that are just south west of the site.