Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

"In a vote that could have major implications for transportation in Metro Vancouver moving forward, Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan defeated Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson for chair of the mayors' council."

This happened last month but he takes over now. I wonder what projects will get priority since he was against the 10 year plan.

how is that even possible ? so you end up with 1 person who has the control over future projects ?

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

how is that even possible ? so you end up with 1 person who has the control of future projects ?

Yeah that just seems dumb. Shouldn't all board members get to vote on future projects?

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Vantage

Yeah that just seems dumb. Shouldn't all board members get to vote on future projects?

There are two different groups involved here, with some of the same people in both. The full, convoluted relationship is explained in more detail here.

The Mayors' Council is made up of the elected mayors of all the Metro Vancouver municipalities, as well as Tsawwassen First Nation and Electoral Area A. This is the group that decides the transportation vision for the region (currently, they're focusing on the 10-year plan).
Derek Corrigan was elected chair of the Mayors' Council, but that doesn't give him final say on the actual plans.

There's also the TransLink Board, which is in charge of the direction of TransLink as a company and things like appointing the CEO, approving operating budgets, and implementing the Mayors' Council plans. The chair and vice-chair of the Mayors' Council are two members of this board, so Derek Corrigan is now one of the TransLink board members. Other members are appointed by the Mayors' Council (from a screened list) and the Province.
This is where Corrigan's vote has more power and where other municipalities don't have their own voice at the table.

This is also how we can end up in the situation where TransLink did studies that came out against LRT in Surrey, and are now in a position where they're advocating for LRT in Surrey. TransLink does not set the 10-year plan (although they contribute heavily to it), it is set by the Mayors' Council.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by dpogue

There are two different groups involved here, with some of the same people in both. The full, convoluted relationship is explained in more detail here.

The Mayors' Council is made up of the elected mayors of all the Metro Vancouver municipalities, as well as Tsawwassen First Nation and Electoral Area A. This is the group that decides the transportation vision for the region (currently, they're focusing on the 10-year plan).
Derek Corrigan was elected chair of the Mayors' Council, but that doesn't give him final say on the actual plans.

There's also the TransLink Board, which is in charge of the direction of TransLink as a company and things like appointing the CEO, approving operating budgets, and implementing the Mayors' Council plans. The chair and vice-chair of the Mayors' Council are two members of this board, so Derek Corrigan is now one of the TransLink board members. Other members are appointed by the Mayors' Council (from a screened list) and the Province.
This is where Corrigan's vote has more power and where other municipalities don't have their own voice at the table.

This is also how we can end up in the situation where TransLink did studies that came out against LRT in Surrey, and are now in a position where they're advocating for LRT in Surrey. TransLink does not set the 10-year plan (although they contribute heavily to it), it is set by the Mayors' Council.

What a stupid setup!!! Corrigan said something to the effect that he will consider the 10 year plan but he is not sure about the order of the projects. Things take forever to get done in Metro Van. Look how long it took for the Evergreen extension. Heck, all the funding isn't in place yet for these mega-projects. Until the shovels start hitting the ground, it is all just talk and ideas.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

TransLink shouldn't be under the control of the local mayors. they are all petty, selfish, and aren't qualified to make decisions on where to run transit. TransLink should be controlled by its CEO and the staff who do actual studies to determine what is good for the region. not politicians. it was a dumb idea for TransLink to be the whipping boy of the mayors while also taking the blame from the citizens when things don't go well for things they didn't want. same thing with what happened with COMPASS.

[GreaterMontréal]

del.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

TransLink shouldn't be under the control of the local mayors. they are all petty, selfish, and aren't qualified to make decisions on where to run transit. TransLink should be controlled by its CEO and the staff who do actual studies to determine what is good for the region. not politicians. it was a dumb idea for TransLink to be the whipping boy of the mayors while also taking the blame from the citizens when things don't go well for things they didn't want. same thing with what happened with COMPASS.

Translink has been the whipping boy for the provincial government, most notably the BC Liberals for the last 10 years or so.

For the most part, the Mayors' Council and Translink have been singing from the same songsheet. Corrigan has always been the hypocritical blowhard outsider, now he's the chair. Very Trumpish.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Translink has been the whipping boy for the provincial government, most notably the BC Liberals for the last 10 years or so.

For the most part, the Mayors' Council and Translink have been singing from the same songsheet. Corrigan has always been the hypocritical blowhard outsider, now he's the chair. Very Trumpish.

I don't have issue with the mayor's council making suggestions on transit projects and desires but every mega project needs to be strongly vetted and come with a solid business case. Then the government and Translink should have the final say on which projects tax payer money should be used.

Surrey's vanity project does not cut the grade when put to the stress tests.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

TransLink shouldn't be under the control of the local mayors. they are all petty, selfish, and aren't qualified to make decisions on where to run transit. TransLink should be controlled by its CEO and the staff who do actual studies to determine what is good for the region. not politicians. it was a dumb idea for TransLink to be the whipping boy of the mayors while also taking the blame from the citizens when things don't go well for things they didn't want. same thing with what happened with COMPASS.

Out of interest, do you have any ideas / concepts of your own regarding how Translink - or the equivalent thereof - should be organized, function, under whose control?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Out of interest, do you have any ideas / concepts of your own regarding how Translink - or the equivalent thereof - should be organized, function, under whose control?

this is how things work in Montréal.

the CMM (Montreal Metropolitan Community) is always chaired by the Montréal Agglomeration President, which is the Mayor of Montréal. the Vice-Presidents (2) are the Mayor of Laval and the Mayor of Longueuil, its 2 largest suburbs.

The ARTM (Metropolitan Regional Transportation Authority) is an umbrella organization that manages and integrates road transport and public transportation in Greater Montreal.

All the future major projects are based on the PMAD (Metropolitan Land Use and Development Plan). The CMM approves the strategic development plan, the capital program and the ARTM funding policy.

they have established that all the Greater Montréal transport agencies must improve public transit in order to get people to downtown Montreal.

http://cmm.qc.ca/fr/accueil/
http://www.artm.quebec/

for example, with the REM (LRT), the project received several negative reviews initially by omitting to place intermodal stations in the city center (it was initially a suburbs project). They added 3 stations downtown and the project was accepted.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

this is how things work in Montréal.

the CMM (Montreal Metropolitan Community) is always chaired by the Montréal Agglomeration President, which is the Mayor of Montréal. the Vice-Presidents (2) are the Mayor of Laval and the Mayor of Longueuil, its 2 largest suburbs.

The ARTM (Metropolitan Regional Transportation Authority) is an umbrella organization that manages and integrates road transport and public transportation in Greater Montreal.

All the future major projects are based on the PMAD (Metropolitan Land Use and Development Plan). The CMM approves the strategic development plan, the capital program and the ARTM funding policy.

they have established that all the Greater Montréal transport agencies must improve public transit in order to get people to downtown Montreal.

http://cmm.qc.ca/fr/accueil/
http://www.artm.quebec/

for example, with the REM (LRT), the project received several negative reviews initially by omitting to place intermodal stations in the city center (it was initially a suburbs project). They added 3 stations downtown and the project was accepted.

Smething like that, in heirarchy, inclusion, structure, and decisonal power, might do for Vancouver. Or might it not?

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Smething like that, in heirarchy, inclusion, structure, and decisonal power, might do for Vancouver. Or might it not?

We have 21 suburbs and we know every single one of them will want a say (including Anmore, Belcarra and Lions Bay, which for the most part are irrelevant in any transit discussion).

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

We have 21 suburbs and we know every single one of them will want a say (including Anmore, Belcarra and Lions Bay, which for the most part are irrelevant in any transit discussion).

Montréal has 93. The province has simplified everything in 2017. There were 16 agencies (not organized) in the Metropolitan region, only 5 now. STM (Montréal) , STL (Laval) , RTL (Longueuil) , RTM (Metropolitan Transportation Network) , and the ARTM.

the RTM operates commuter train service as well as the bus service outside of the 3 main population centres of Greater Montreal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9seau_de_transport_m%C3%A9tropolitain

maybe the provincial government could do the same and merge all the transit agencies (outside the 3 main cities) into only 1.

here is a map of the fare zones
https://rtm.quebec/en/fares/metropolitan-fares/fare-zones

[MIPS]

Was the whole purpose of TransLink to make one regional body for the lower mainland that was independent of BC Transit who does have control over the rest of the province but understandably the population density is much, much lower?

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

We have 21 suburbs and we know every single one of them will want a say (including Anmore, Belcarra and Lions Bay, which for the most part are irrelevant in any transit discussion).

To be frank I think some of these suburbs should be removed from Translink, it makes more sense to have Abootsford and to have smaller suburbs go to BC Transit.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Smething like that, in heirarchy, inclusion, structure, and decisonal power, might do for Vancouver. Or might it not?

It was actually based on the Vancouver model but with with less politics involved, same as how the REM was based on SkyTrain but with basically no politics involved. The ARTM's chairman board is a majority of transit (or supposed to be) officials. The ARTM is transit only and does not plan any roads.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

To be frank I think some of these suburbs should be removed from Translink, it makes more sense to have Abootsford and to have smaller suburbs go to BC Transit.

Abbotsford is part of BC Transit - not TransLink.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Smething like that, in heirarchy, inclusion, structure, and decisonal power, might do for Vancouver. Or might it not?

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

this is how things work in Montréal.

the CMM (Montreal Metropolitan Community) is always chaired by the Montréal Agglomeration President, which is the Mayor of Montréal. the Vice-Presidents (2) are the Mayor of Laval and the Mayor of Longueuil, its 2 largest suburbs.

The ARTM (Metropolitan Regional Transportation Authority) is an umbrella organization that manages and integrates road transport and public transportation in Greater Montreal.

All the future major projects are based on the PMAD (Metropolitan Land Use and Development Plan). The CMM approves the strategic development plan, the capital program and the ARTM funding policy.

they have established that all the Greater Montréal transport agencies must improve public transit in order to get people to downtown Montreal.

http://cmm.qc.ca/fr/accueil/
http://www.artm.quebec/

for example, with the REM (LRT), the project received several negative reviews initially by omitting to place intermodal stations in the city center (it was initially a suburbs project). They added 3 stations downtown and the project was accepted.

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

It was actually based on the Vancouver model but with with less politics involved, same as how the REM was based on SkyTrain but with basically no politics involved. The ARTM's chairman board is a majority of transit (or supposed to be) officials. The ARTM is transit only and does not plan any roads.

I'm flaggergasted. It seems to have worked out for Montreal to the greater extent. Something went wrong on the road back home!

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I'm flaggergasted. It seems to have worked out for Montreal to the greater extent. Something went wrong on the road back home!

well, less politics is the answer. too many chefs in the kitchen as the saying goes.

[Reecemartin]

Would anyone be willing to help make a similar video for Vancouver?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFdjZF-E-lU