PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Daario]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Amazon's not coming here.

????

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Daario

????

Nothing empirical, just my thought. Would love to be proven wrong though.

[jjv007]

Happy New Year 2018 to all on the forum!

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Happy New Year 2018 to all on the forum!

Yes , and back at ya .... Here's to a happier , safer , healthier , more rewarding 2018 for all .... but then theres
Murphys law , and I guess you know what that means .

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Vinoly to me is as overrated as they come. The big glass cube at Penn is a fail too, in my book.

have you ever been inside it? have you ever been inside the atrium on the 6th floor? both fantastic spaces.

[iheartphilly]

^
The outside of the Kimmel Center is kinda unassuming, but the inside fit for purpose can stand up to any other performance hall in the country.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
The outside of the Kimmel Center is kinda unassuming, but the inside fit for purpose can stand up to any other performance hall in the country.

Maybe, but you don't hire a super star architect for a job that only looks good inside. The exterior certainly doesn't reflect bold architecture from an internationally renowned architect. Hiring Vinoly gave boosters the impression we were getting an iconic civic building, something along the lines of the Sydney Opera House, Milwaukee Art Museum, or the Guggenheim in Spain. The Kimmel Center is okay, but it's certainly nothing special.

[iheartphilly]

^

Agreed, that's why I stated "unassuming." But, trying to look at the glass half full perspective with positive comments about its interior. Nonetheless, it is what it is. Maybe in 10-15 years, Philly can see some bold/edgy design in architecture of various utility. I like to think it will be directly porportional to the wealth of the city and its wealthy citizens as a status symbol. A direct correlation to raise the city's profile. Only time will tell if this will happen.

[slow-v6]

Watching the mummers parade, and I must say 1919market does do a lot from street level. I didn't like the building at all, and am surprised of how much of a impact it has from the ground level.

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila

I really hate to say it, but if Dranoff needs 20 million from Taxpayers to build a 5 star hotel and luxury residences most likely starting in the million dollar price range, I feel no empathy for his project. To be honest I find it ridiculous. There is definitely a need to invest in development, as you will gain a return on values with elevating real estate values and the residual effects on property tax values. But I really think this is out of hand to be honest. I rather invest 20 million in a program to incentivize transit oriented development around our legacy transit nodes, or incentivize the investment and redevelopment of Pennsylvania's many small walkable towns. A small little rant, the SLS site is a PRIME location in Center City. Why should the state be shelling out $20 Million? Ridiculous.

Honestly I think the $2.4 million he's already received is absurd, especially since this property is looking more and more like a permanent pit that might turn into a parking lot.

I get the point of the program, but I don't understand how development firms building luxury on the Avenue of the Arts are remotely applicable. Sure, they generate jobs, but if Dranoff got even close to $20M in subsidies, the taxpayers would be paying for those jobs anyway, and most jobs the hotel/condo creates would be low wage service jobs. He's not incapable of borrowing the money he needs to build the hotel on his own with a handsome profit for himself in the end. That in itself should disqualify any developer from even applying for this sort of subsidy.

I love seeing the city rise architecturally, but I'm starting to wonder what's the point. I'm squarely middle class, can afford a decent apartment, but for those doing worse than me, the best another luxury tower can do is offer a few more menial jobs that trap them in a low wage.

It's amazing that a liberal governor and an even more liberal city are so willing to embrace trickle down economics under a completely different name. Handing out $2.4M to Dranoff's SLS International isn't "redevelopment," it's subsidized private profit. And in the end, it's looking more and more like it paid to tear down a historic recording studio for a hole in the ground, that Dranoff will flip to Sl-EZ Park for millions.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by philatonian

Honestly I think the $2.4 million he's already received is absurd, especially since this property is looking more and more like a permanent pit that might turn into a parking lot.

I get the point of the program, but I don't understand how development firms building luxury on the Avenue of the Arts are remotely applicable. Sure, they generate jobs, but if Dranoff got even close to $20M in subsidies, the taxpayers would be paying for those jobs anyway, and most jobs the hotel/condo creates would be low wage service jobs. He's not incapable of borrowing the money he needs to build the hotel on his own with a handsome profit for himself in the end. That in itself should disqualify any developer from even applying for this sort of subsidy.

I love seeing the city rise architecturally, but I'm starting to wonder what's the point. I'm squarely middle class, can afford a decent apartment, but for those doing worse than me, the best another luxury tower can do is offer a few more menial jobs that trap them in a low wage.

It's amazing that a liberal governor and an even more liberal city are so willing to embrace trickle down economics under a completely different name. Handing out $2.4M to Dranoff's SLS International isn't "redevelopment," it's subsidized private profit. And in the end, it's looking more and more like it paid to tear down a historic recording studio for a hole in the ground, that Dranoff will flip to Sl-EZ Park for millions.

I agree this is not the most worthy recipient of RACP grants. I'm surprised they got more than the initial $1 million awarded last year (especially after the criticism the awards to the Aloft hotel received). But it's more complicated than you are suggesting. It's not just jobs (though some of the jobs that will be generated actually will pay decent). Adequate hotel rooms dictates whether we can attract conventions and has ripples for the broader economy and tax base in about 100 different ways.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by McBane

Maybe, but you don't hire a super star architect for a job that only looks good inside.

Isn't that pretty much his MO?

I agree he's probably not a good choice for a tower.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by philatonian

Honestly I think the $2.4 million he's already received is absurd, especially since this property is looking more and more like a permanent pit that might turn into a parking lot.

I get the point of the program, but I don't understand how development firms building luxury on the Avenue of the Arts are remotely applicable. Sure, they generate jobs, but if Dranoff got even close to $20M in subsidies, the taxpayers would be paying for those jobs anyway, and most jobs the hotel/condo creates would be low wage service jobs. He's not incapable of borrowing the money he needs to build the hotel on his own with a handsome profit for himself in the end. That in itself should disqualify any developer from even applying for this sort of subsidy.

I love seeing the city rise architecturally, but I'm starting to wonder what's the point. I'm squarely middle class, can afford a decent apartment, but for those doing worse than me, the best another luxury tower can do is offer a few more menial jobs that trap them in a low wage.

It's amazing that a liberal governor and an even more liberal city are so willing to embrace trickle down economics under a completely different name. Handing out $2.4M to Dranoff's SLS International isn't "redevelopment," it's subsidized private profit. And in the end, it's looking more and more like it paid to tear down a historic recording studio for a hole in the ground, that Dranoff will flip to Sl-EZ Park for millions.

Well said. Do you know what the PA's RACP requirements are when individuals/corporations apply for these grants? It might shed light into state lawmakers thinking. I think the grant program has been around for some time now. And, it can also be seen as political patronage.

[Londonee]

I've often assumed that developers use these subsidies as ways to bolster their profit margins. Building in Philly is a slim margin game due to construction costs - so if you can pad your margin by $3, 4, or 5 million in "free" money it makes total sense to do so. In that sense, the grants may incentivize developer risk taking - allowing more projects to get off the ground.

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Amazon's not coming here.

You're probably right, but you're also a moron that likes to compare our city to an NYC or LA.

[christof]

So will Comcast announce details of their 3rd tower, 2nd super, this year or will we have to wait until 2019 for the news?

[hammersklavier]

If CTC was any indication, they're probably not gonna announce until they're ready to build.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

You're probably right, but you're also a moron that likes to compare our city to an NYC or LA.

I never stated Philly was peers with either NYC or LA and I explained what I had meant initially in a later comment. I hope you don't just go around randomly labelling individuals as morons in your day-to-day life.

[Milksteak]

How much does frozen ground affect digging for construction projects? I'm not talking extended periods of 0 degree weather, but what we're seeing now...anywhere between 5-20 degrees for a couple of months. Is it usually a big issue or does it not make much of a difference?

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

How much does frozen ground affect digging for construction projects? I'm not talking extended periods of 0 degree weather, but what we're seeing now...anywhere between 5-20 degrees for a couple of months. Is it usually a big issue or does it not make much of a difference?

I suspect not a big deal since they could use heavy equipment to rip it up. Plus any depth below 3 ft probably is not frozen since that depth is considered the frost line. The bigger issue is being ablet to pour concrete for a mat slab or whatever. To my understanding, concrete won't set in frozen temps.