Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[waves]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I suspect that "but you 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 voted No in the referendum and shot down the PST increase, so we'll have to stop at Arbutus" wasn't diplomatic enough.

Hahaha I think I would actually have enjoyed seeing something frank like that.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I suspect that "but you 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 voted No in the referendum and shot down the PST increase, so we'll have to stop at Arbutus" wasn't diplomatic enough.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that the Broadway Subway was always going to be phased.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that the Broadway Subway was always going to be phased.

It was mentioned briefly but in a very positive light in the 2012 study.
See the below image at page 170. As far as I know there wasn't really a definitive document that studied the trade-offs in detail of doing a phased approach rather than all at once (I really want to see it if I am wrong and it does exist). So long as there isn't it just seems like political games, similar to Surrey.

Even though they view it in a positive light they do say this in summary: "Phasing the RRT alternative increases the benefit:cost ratio over building the full route at once. Phasing construction to an interim terminus at Cambie results in the 99 B-Line being over capacity, while an interim terminus at Arbutus results in the 99 B-Line having sufficient capacity in the near to medium-term but capacity issues would emerge by 2041."

With the swiftness they are moving at with this project, they will be finished the line, then have 10 years to get the next phase in.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that the Broadway Subway was always going to be phased.

November 2012

Existing council policy supports a staged construction approach with the initial subway line running west to Arbutus Street.

The second phase would see the line continue on to UBC, with new stations, at a cost of about $50 million each, built in as needed.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+un...adway+corridor+subway/7618762/story.html

[officedweller]

Why is the Broadway Extension only going from VCC–Clark Station to Arbutus in phase 1?

Traffic is most congested along Broadway between Commercial Drive and Arbutus Street, resulting in longer and less predictable travel times than from Arbutus to UBC. An improved 99 B-Line bus service between Arbutus and UBC will continue to provide service.

47 per cent of 99 B-Line passengers end their journey between Main Street and Arbutus

https://broadwayextension.ca/Route

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

November 2012



http://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+un...adway+corridor+subway/7618762/story.html

when Arbutus to UBC is built, I expect construction costs to be higher than today's costs.
I wont be surprised to see over $100 million per mile for the tunnels, and $100 M per station for this phase.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

https://broadwayextension.ca/Route

that chart appears to show at first glance that nobody will disembark between main and arbutus

not at cambie (city hall)?
or oak (vgh)?
nor granville?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

that chart appears to show at first glance that nobody will disembark between main and arbutus

not at cambie (city hall)?
or oak (vgh)?
nor granville?

You're reading it wrong.

The %ages are cumulative for the section shown.

So 1% get off 99 B-Line between Commercial and Main (maybe Main is the only stop?)
47% get off 99 B-Line between Main and Arbutus (not at Arbutus)
etc.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You're reading it wrong.

The %ages are cumulative for the section shown.

So 1% get off 99 B-Line between Commercial and Main (maybe Main is the only stop?)
47% get off 99 B-Line between Main and Arbutus (not at Arbutus)
etc.

so it should actually show

ubc 100% disembark at (or before) this stop
blanca 56% " " "
alma 55% " " "



hmm ... the numbers dont balance reading r-l or l-r

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

so it should actually show

ubc 100% disembark at (or before) this stop
blanca 56% " " "
alma 55% " " "



hmm ... the numbers dont balance

Before Main: 1%; Main-Arbutus: 47%; Macdonald-Alma: 6%; Jericho/Sasamat/Blanca: 1%; UBC: 44%.

Come on, it's not exactly quantum physics here!

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Before Main: 1%; Main-Arbutus: 47%; Macdonald-Alma: 6%; Sasamat/Blanca: 1%; UBC: 44%.

Come on, it's not exactly quantum physics here!

cumulative implies the numbers should increase from commercial (0 % disemark) to ubc (100 % disembark)


they dont

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

cumulative implies the numbers should increase from commercial (0 %) to ubc (100 %)


they dont

If you want to be pedantic:
cu·mu·la·tive
ˈkyo͞omyələdiv,ˈkyo͞omyəˌlādiv/
adjective
adjective: cumulative

increasing or increased in quantity, degree, or force by successive additions.
"the cumulative effect of two years of drought"

Full quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

The %ages are cumulative for the section (ie Central Broadway) shown.

Meaning all the numbers for Arbutus through Main are added up to 47%. It's okay to admit that you misread the post.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

cumulative implies the numbers should increase from commercial (0 %) to ubc (100 %)


they dont

It is going from Commercial / Broadway to UBC.

Starting at 100 % and deceasing.

It means that 47% going to and from Commercial / Broadway disembark / embark between Main and Arbutus.

It is not that hard to read.

I am sure you can find more detailed stats if you search for them.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If you want to be pedantic:
cu·mu·la·tive
ˈkyo͞omyələdiv,ˈkyo͞omyəˌlādiv/
adjective
adjective: cumulative

increasing or increased in quantity, degree, or force by successive additions.
"the cumulative effect of two years of drought"

Full quote:



Meaning all the numbers for Arbutus through Main are added up to 47%. It's okay to admit that you misread the post.

it wasnt mis-read, just pointing out that it can easily mis-read to imply that most people wont go farther than arbutus, whereas the numbers appear to show that 52% (a majority) need to go past arbutus to ubc or other stops between arbutus and ubc

or, in other words, more people will be using the train just to end up on the b-line from arbutus to ubc (or stops en route) than will be using the train to exit at a stop before arbutus

[Metro-One]

Its not misleading at all, and you are not telling us anything that we didn't already know.

But the fact is that nearly 50% of the people who use the B-line bus will be fully serviced by extending the train only to Arbutus. This will take a lot of pressure off the remaining B-Line service to UBC since the area with the most wear and tear / congestion will be removed from the run.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Its not misleading at all, and you are not telling us anything that we didn't already know.

But the fact is that nearly 50% of the people who use the B-line bus will be fully serviced by extending the train only to Arbutus. This will take a lot of pressure off the remaining B-Line service to UBC since the area with the most wear and tear / congestion will be removed from the run.

anyone in this forum should understand this, but joe public getting their info from the tv or the papers will be relying on this info as interpreted (or misinterpreted) by the media.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

But the fact is that nearly 50% of the people who use the B-line bus will be fully serviced by extending the train only to Arbutus. This will take a lot of pressure off the remaining B-Line service to UBC since the area with the most wear and tear / congestion will be removed from the run.

Right. Having SkyTrain cover the Arbutus-Commercial stretch (the most crowded part of the route too, mind you) means that the B-Line also has just half the passengers and half the route length to deal with.

Originally Posted by jsbertram

anyone in this forum should understand this, but joe public getting their info from the tv or the papers will be relying on this info as interpreted (or misinterpreted) by the media.

So long as the Lower Mainland's journalists passed elementary school reading comprehension, we should be fine.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Right. Having SkyTrain cover the Arbutus-Commercial stretch (the most crowded part of the route too, mind you) means that the B-Line also has just half the passengers and half the route length to deal with.



So long as the Lower Mainland's journalists passed elementary school reading comprehension, we should be fine.

I read once that 50% of the diesel articulated bus fleet is used on the 99 B-Line. This would mean 25% of the fleet would be freed up after the extension goes through.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

I read once that 50% of the diesel articulated bus fleet is used on the 99 B-Line. This would mean 25% of the fleet would be freed up after the extension goes through.

With the number of B Lines operating and that will be operating by the time Broadway Line opens that figure seems like wishful thinking.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

I read once that 50% of the diesel articulated bus fleet is used on the 99 B-Line. This would mean 25% of the fleet would be freed up after the extension goes through.

If the 99 B-Line length is cut in half and if the peak capacity is also cut in half, then it could reduce the B-Line vehicle requirements by 75%, which would mean over 35% of the fleet would be freed.

On the other hand, Skytrain to Arbutus is likely to focus more riders onto that route, so it's unlikely that we'd see those kinds of savings.