Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Outlook 2018: Surrey’s light-rail long game

City continues to lobby for LRT link originally pitched by Dianne Watts

By Patrick Blennerhassett | Dec. 19, 2017, midnight



https://www.biv.com/article/2017/12/outlook-2018-surreys-light-rail-long-game/

This picture was drawn at the wrong time of day. It should have been drawn at around 3am.

[Metro-One]

Haha, wow, that article almost gave me a headache!

Essentially they have asked the province to build both segments (the L-line and the line to Langley) at the same time!

Langley city council is arguing for skytrain and the article has listed other "skytrain advocacy groups" as gaining traction, so they want to move fast on this LRT...

Essentially without suing so they are getting scared now.

It bothers me so much that they never straight up tell the public the horrid stats on this proposal (its tiny capacity and slow speed) compared to skytrain and even compared to many other LRT systems.

That is the thing, the biggest problem is not the fact that this is LRT, it is the fact that it is a very poorly designed LRT.

And their comparison of Surrey to Portland, a hilarious ploy in manipulating stats.

First saying how the Portland LRT has double in ridership (but there is no comparison between the Portland LRT and Skytrain, because skytrain stats blow the Portland LRT out of the water for ridership).

Then, most hilarious of all, it states how Portland has a population over 600 000, and Surrey has a population of 500 000, and that Portand has numerous LRT lines and Surrey only has a skytrain our, hahahahaha! Like seriously? No mention that the city of Portland plays the same role of Vancouver in it metro of over 2 million people????

Seriously, if this is the spinning they need to do to keep this LRT vision afloat (I can understand them a little from their position in losing the LRT-L line, but I seriously don't know why skytrain to Langley is such a threat to them... would that not be like asking for of Corolla (LRT) and getting Cadillac (skytrain)? Why fight against that!?) then I really hope that the NDP sees through this (and also respects Langley's wishes and not just Surrey's) and does not let this project proceed in its current form that Surrey is asking.

PS I saw from some leaked documents that the price tag for this project has increased significantly since the last estimates.

[SFUVancouver]

That is a painful article. It's not even one-sided: they don't make or reiterate the case for LRT, let alone compare it to the SkyTrain alternative.

I'm very pessimistic about the project and expect that LRT will be selected for the Langley line. I'm resigned that LRT is going on King George and 104 and can live with that, especially if the City of Surrey were to get serious about reimagining and rezoning Newton and going for a high-density urban node a la Brentwood. But to not extend SkyTrain to Langley and have the Expo Line serve as a true regional rapid transit spine is demonstrably crazy.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Also again, the expected ridership is 4,100 pphpd when fully upgraded... the 99 B-Line gets 5,000. So you don't need to spent the same amount - you just need to run the 96 every 3-4 minutes, allow three-door boarding, possibly create dedicated lanes or bus-only lights, and there's your LRT! It even arrives a minute or two faster!

Hey MC, do you have a link for where these pphpd numbers are coming from?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Hey MC, do you have a link for where these pphpd numbers are coming from?

Daryl pointed out several months ago that Surrey's own Socio-Economic Review pegged the LRT's ridership at 2,700 pphpd, and 4,080 pphpd once the platforms are lengthened - which'll be decades after construction (and Hepner's political ascension and/or retirement), of course.

No luck finding hourly ridership for the 99, but it's got a daily ridership of 56-60K; dividing by 12 (assuming a "triangle" that peaks at noon) gives me around 4,700-5,000 pphpd.

[Sheba]

From The Buzzer Blog

By Robert Willis - Buzzer Editor
...

Traffic Impacts

Surrey LRT will travel in its own dedicated lanes, which offers increased reliability because it won’t be held up by congestion or accidents in the other lanes. At intersections, new traffic signals and other design elements will ensure that traffic flows smoothly and safely – one of our top concerns!

Here’s some info about a few topics a bunch of you raised:

Accidents

In the event of an accident that does block the LRT lanes, operational staff and emergency responders will work to clear the site safely and quickly so that service can continue. And if an LRT vehicle does break down or otherwise can’t continue, there will be spaces along the route where LRT vehicles can cross over to the other lane and pass – similar to how SkyTrain single-tracking works when there’s a stalled train.

...

I'm still not a fan of this LRT but at least someone has thought of some of the issues.

[Metro-One]

Word is that the L-Line is a done deal. No use fighting it anymore.

My main problem is still the poor design through downtown Surrey. All the crossing gates and curbs in the world are not going to stop that section from being a disaster.

Good news is the line / extension to Langley has not been decided on for technology.

I highly suggest everyone focused on making sure that it goes through as Skytrain.

If anyone has the correct emails available to voice our support for Skytrain to Langley please post them.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Word is that the L-Line is a done deal. No use fighting it anymore.

My main problem is still the poor design through downtown Surrey. All the crossing gates and curbs in the world are not going to stop that section from being a disaster.

Good news is the line / extension to Langley has not been decided on for technology.

I highly suggest everyone focused on making sure that it goes through as Skytrain.

If anyone has the correct emails available to voice our support for Skytrain to Langley please post them.

Would you be able to say where this information came from?

[Metro-One]

To be honest I worry it would breach some trust, so no names.

But it came straight from the top.

It will be public soon enough.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Seriously, if this is the spinning they need to do to keep this LRT vision afloat (I can understand them a little from their position in losing the LRT-L line, but I seriously don't know why skytrain to Langley is such a threat to them... would that not be like asking for of Corolla (LRT) and getting Cadillac (skytrain)? Why fight against that!?) then I really hope that the NDP sees through this (and also respects Langley's wishes and not just Surrey's) and does not let this project proceed in its current form that Surrey is asking.

PS I saw from some leaked documents that the price tag for this project has increased significantly since the last estimates.

Surrey needs both parts to be LRT to elevate the business case from rubbish to bad. No amount of polish will shine that bad to good.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Word is that the L-Line is a done deal. No use fighting it anymore.

My main problem is still the poor design through downtown Surrey. All the crossing gates and curbs in the world are not going to stop that section from being a disaster.

Good news is the line / extension to Langley has not been decided on for technology.

I highly suggest everyone focused on making sure that it goes through as Skytrain.

If anyone has the correct emails available to voice our support for Skytrain to Langley please post them.

2+ billion down the toilet

[GMasterAres]

Fraser Highway extension will be SkyTrain. L-Line will be LRT. Unless something insane happens, that's what will end up happening.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Fraser Highway extension will be SkyTrain. L-Line will be LRT. Unless something insane happens, that's what will end up happening.

Confirmed fact or speculation? I don't mean this to be combatative, I'm just genuinely curious. This has been my assumption of what would happen for a while, simply based on the comments made by TransLink that it "will be light rail" as said repeatedly, but that Langley City wants a SkyTrain.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Fraser Highway extension will be SkyTrain. L-Line will be LRT. Unless something insane happens, that's what will end up happening.

This is what I have long predicted as well, but still I really hope you are right.

[Millennium2002]

I'm rather distressed that $2.2 billion of the region's transportation money is being spent on a one-city streetcar with such a poor design...

It's worth mentioning that various investors and slumlords that currently own numerous run-down properties along King George Highway will be reaping immense investment profits from this short-sighted decision...

And while this is being done, what are we doing to the Broadway corridor? Still bursting at the seams, as usual...

This place is becoming a bit of a sick joke, and if I had the choice, I'd be getting my tax dollars out of it.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Millennium2002

I'm rather distressed that $2.2 billion of the region's transportation money is being spent on a one-city streetcar with such a poor design...

It's worth mentioning that various investors and slumlords that currently own numerous run-down properties along King George Highway will be reaping immense investment profits from this short-sighted decision...

And while this is being done, what are we doing to the Broadway corridor? Still bursting at the seams, as usual...

This place is becoming a bit of a sick joke, and if I had the choice, I'd be getting my tax dollars out of it.

Yeah we can't even get the 99 B-line to run when there's a couple inches of snow on the ground. I saw 2 jack-knifed B-line buses along Broadway on Tuesday, one of which was blocking 2 lanes of traffic. My commute was agonizing that day.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Fraser Highway extension will be SkyTrain. L-Line will be LRT. Unless something insane happens, that's what will end up happening.

Of all the possibilities, that is the most palatable.

[officedweller]

Hopefully they won't buy Bombardier LRT cars:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12...ier-vehicle-order-by-more-than-half.html

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Hopefully they won't buy Bombardier LRT cars:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12...ier-vehicle-order-by-more-than-half.html

All the documents they use show Bombardier vehicles. Personally I hope the project doesn't occur but if it does I hope they use the Alston Citadis

[Sheba]

I'd suggest you guys go back to pg 177 on this thread - there was talk of Toronto's Bombardier problems then.