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  #5821  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2017, 7:55 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by nixcity View Post
Novacek, to make it short and easy for all to understand. Yes, for the most part those things you say are true, although all you have to do is look at the numbers. That corridor has waaaay outpaced any other corridor in Austin for a reason, and for the most part who gives a damn why. Everybody knows that is the best place for rail, and the needed growth (which I think is enough to justify going underground all the way through dt and the drag) will come from yet more students (thousands with tons of free time and money to burn) moving into the area, the continued growth of N. Lamar where the state is increasing their employment, and mostly by connecting to good ol' IH 35 and FINALLY giving all those suburban and nearby Austinites an alternative to driving to get to a more central or southern location.
Haha, funny, the invite was from a city official of which will help lead the meeting tonight with other city employees.
freerover, thanks for the information. We have such a great chance to truly transform our city. We could reunite our east and west sides with this. Rail will still be able to happen for the south sides, there are still a few alternatives.

The million dollar question (quite literally) is if the city will give up ROW along Guadalupe/Lamar and possibly reduce car lanes. I think you're looking at the elimination of private vehicle traffic along guadalupe on campus no matter what.

The case study P.C. showed recently highlighted the possibility of elevated track but I just can't see how that will ever be financially feasible. Adler and to claw tooth and nail to get the 2016 bond up to 700 million.

I also share the concern about putting a lot of weight into the west campus area population as a factor in mass transit use. I lived in that area while in school and your travel is very incestious. A huge portion of that population either walks or takes a bus that travels exclusively on campus as part of their daily commute. Then an above average portion of night time and weekend entertainment is within the neighbored as well with the exception of late night trips to downtown. Sure, there are going to be outliers but I think you have to look at the population number of a corridor in terms of their habitual commutes.

I'm in general not a big fan of rail on Guadalupe and N. Lamar. I don't see the density within 1/4 mile of the corridor itself. There is a certain barrier of entry when it comes to mass transport and how much people have to walk. I think S. Lamar is a good example of high value density with a seemingly endless amount of high-rise residential unites on a corridor with extreme connection issues due to the greenbelt on the west and the railroad on the east. However, I think ROW is an issue there.

I really like the investment down the Riverside corridor. It's a much better bang for your buck because of the huge amount of ROW and the increased density you are seeing along the corridor itself. You have the big high-rise on the corner of 35 and Riverside, The Amli which is in the process of doubling the amount of apartments it currently has, building a high turnover restaurant, and townhomes. You have the 3 different buildings of the South Shore District complex which is slowly growing their 1st floor commercial presence. You obviously have Oracle but it's pretty far from the corridor. Still, I could see the company having a shuttle down lakeshore if there was ever mass transit there. There are multiple new high-rises going up near the Buzzmill. Then you have the huge asterisk that is a new office park at Pleasant Valley and Riverside. The same buyer has cobbled up 3 adjacent lots with close to 90 acres.

I think there is a question as to if that development will expand past pleasant valley to the same degree and you could see a proposal for a shorter Riverside Line that does not go as far as the ACC riverside campus. Project Connect has identified a different way for rail access (diesel train hard rail) to the airport that utilizes the downtown train station, existing rail from downtown to east of 183 and I'm guessing some ROW purchasing to get the line from east of 183 to the airport. This would tie obviously tie into a transfer point for the existing Red Line and also the possible green line which is one of the corridors in the current study and a possible future rail line up to Roundrock and Georgetown.

An airport rail line wouldn't really be worth the investment until the airport doubles their daily workforce which probably means waiting until a 2nd terminal is built in about 10-15 years.

BTW,

Here is a map of the corridors that have made the 1st wave of study. All of the orange lines are being explored for light rail except 14 and 19. They are all being evaluated for various other types of transit options.

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  #5822  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2017, 8:07 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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In highway news....


HUGE Development for Central Texas

A call to TxDot to cease all work on any toll lanes could scrape work on the 183 project that would add a direct ramp from N-Mopac to N-183, toll and free lanes on 183 from mopac to 45.

That could put the S. Mopac project in doubt which would add potentially 4 toll lanes from the new 45 SW highway to the bridge which includes miles of new freelanes to reduce merging slowdowns as well as a direct ramp to capital of texas from the SB feeder.


Making the same improvements along those corridors without toll lanes is certainly possible but could mean they would come many many many years later.

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Originally Posted by lzppjb View Post
Why the name change, brando?
Wanted to use a generic handle.

Last edited by freerover; Nov 20, 2017 at 8:17 PM.
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  #5823  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2017, 10:04 PM
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This is kind of transit related. The master planned Colony Park development is East Austin is progressing nicely and should get a developer early next year. It's basically a smaller version of Muller. The Master Plan is super impressive and they've already won awards for it.

Statesman: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/loca...eXpc68tENO40K/
Master Plan: ftp://ftp.austintexas.gov/Colony_Par...%202014_LQ.pdf

It has a rail station in the plan which would potentially serve the hard rail green line as well as a potential Manor Rd light rail line. Manor Rd is just 1 of 10 corridors currently under consideration for light rail and a possible path for it or future extension would be Colony Park and the Expo Center. It would start from Guadalupe/Dean Keaten then head east along DK and Manor with an intersection with the Red Line. The Manor route would likely get a big boost if they decide to build a replacement for the Erwin Center at the Expo grounds. I don't know why the county isn't discussing it with the city. They already put together a huge proposal for it.

That being said, it seems extremely unlikely that light rail is proposed for Manor. I think they are going to have to have a South Congress line starting at 71 in order to get the South Austin vote and maybe the Lake Austin/7th St line which starts west of mopac and could run to 183. That can help you get the west of mopac and east of 183 vote you didn't get last time.

I would still send the South Congress line eastern to Trinity St so it intersects with the Red Line, the hotel district, Medical School, UT Stadium, New UT Basketball Stadium, and the area of campus where many many buses meet. I don't really care where it goes when it gets to Dean Keaten.
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  #5824  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 2:45 AM
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Nice! I hope the rail part happens.
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  #5825  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 10:40 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by clubtokyo View Post
Nice! I hope the rail part happens.
I honestly don't see Austin ever getting a light rail system. The last one didn't fail because it wasn't on Guad Lamar. It failed because it was in the city core so everyone outside the core voted against it. You're only going to pass light rail if it goes outside the core and I can't see Austin passing what would be up to 5 billion dollars. The last rail was relatively short and would have cost 1.5 billion after the federal government matched it. It doesn't help that the corridors people want have very little ROW unless the city is willing to turn 4 lane streets into 2 or build an elevated rail system which is even more expensive.

I think Austin's best chance is to find what the next generation of mass transit is going to be while improving the corridors for cars and buses. I really think Austin would be best served in building the Green Line and finally build transit to complement growth instead of waiting until it's too late. It's just also hard to pass up hard rail that already has its own ROW.

Last edited by freerover; Nov 29, 2017 at 10:56 PM.
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  #5826  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 11:23 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Originally Posted by freerover View Post
I honestly don't see Austin ever getting a light rail system. The last one didn't fail because it wasn't on Guad Lamar. It failed because it was in the city core so everyone outside the core voted against it. You're only going to pass light rail if it goes outside the core and I can't see Austin passing what would be up to 5 billion dollars. The last rail was relatively short and would have cost 1.5 billion after the federal government matched it. It doesn't help that the corridors people want have very little ROW unless the city is willing to turn 4 lane streets into 2 or build an elevated rail system which is even more expensive.

I think Austin's best chance is to find what the next generation of mass transit is going to be while improving the corridors for cars and buses. I really think Austin would be best served in building the Green Line and finally build transit to complement growth instead of waiting until it's too late. It's just also hard to pass up hard rail that already has its own ROW.
We'd actually have a near perfect commuter trail system if we 1. could acquire every rail line within the city, 2. double tracked all of it, and 3. did a few key additions to the system in the central city:

#1. extend the red line all the way down 4th until the state parking garage adjacent to the courthouse. Use that block to move onto 3rd street with a station in the middle of a plaza setting. Then continue down 3rd and tie into the existing rail line. This will serve as the E-W spine of downtown.

#2. open the green line, which will have better access to downtown's core because of #1.

#3a. open a blue line (the remnants of LoneStar Rail), but in sole operation. Eminent domain is a thing, so use it. The blue line, as well, will have much better access to downtown's core because of the extension in #1.

#3b. utilize both segments of rail in the north when they diverge in Round Rock: one to the Diamond (a major source of potential riders) and one to Georgetown. Both spurs are important draws for commuters.

#4. utilize the abandoned MoKan railroad as yellow line. I'm aware that there are contrary plans for the ROW, but this would be the smartest use of the space, especially since the corridor fronts the TX-State Round Rock and associated master planned areas for dense development.

#5. make use of the rail spur through St. Elmo and the abandoned railroad tracks and ROW to further foster redevelopment in this area as well as a MUCH easier connection to the airport.

#6. THIS is the piece that, if built or not, would make or break the entire system:

We desperately need UT, the Capitol Complex, Mueller, and Riverside to be tied into the commuter system, as well as needing a north/south spine for downtown. In that vein, create a spur from the red line at 35 and Airport following Airport until Manor, at which time the line would turn toward downtown charting a course down Red River, building a new bridge to the Statesman site at the end of Red River right by MACC would be easy to accomplish is you pitched it to MACC as including a grand new plaza and front seat access to the greatest source of visitors: a rail line. From the Statesman site, turn down Riverside and go down that corridor until the airport.

#7. The only future addition that would make any kind of sense are a western downtown spine splitting off from the red line at N. Lamar and following the 2000 plan exactly by heading down Guadalupe to follow Riverside and then down South Congress in stages but eventually to Slaughter (or further in the median of 35). I'd also build the small bit of rail to allow the South Congress line to cross over the Statesman bridge or the Riverside/Airport corridor to cross over the Guadalupe bridge.

#8. And maybe, after that, an E-W connection thru the Capitol Complex or on MLK (ideally) or 15th between the two N-S spines, so that we could create a downtown circulator of some sort and add more versatility to the system overall.

#9. I'd also maybe throw West Austin a bone by adding a short spur to the former LoneStar down Lake Austin Blvd.

In total, this is probably 8 BIL of work.
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  #5827  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 2:37 AM
urbancore urbancore is offline
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Originally Posted by freerover View Post
I honestly don't see Austin ever getting a light rail system. The last one didn't fail because it wasn't on Guad Lamar. It failed because it was in the city core so everyone outside the core voted against it. You're only going to pass light rail if it goes outside the core and I can't see Austin passing what would be up to 5 billion dollars. The last rail was relatively short and would have cost 1.5 billion after the federal government matched it. It doesn't help that the corridors people want have very little ROW unless the city is willing to turn 4 lane streets into 2 or build an elevated rail system which is even more expensive.

I think Austin's best chance is to find what the next generation of mass transit is going to be while improving the corridors for cars and buses. I really think Austin would be best served in building the Green Line and finally build transit to complement growth instead of waiting until it's too late. It's just also hard to pass up hard rail that already has its own ROW.

Agreed. It will NEVER happen in Austin. Costs too much, serves too few. The burbs will never vote themselves a tax raise so that a hipster can get to airport/HEB/Franklins a few minutes faster.

Saddest of all, we will NEVER have the density required to afford it, and to make it a success.

It’s all numbers, and the way our town is zoned and laid out, the numbers will never be there. EVER!

Our only hope is autonomous cars, and that the gov works with that industry and not against it. The liberals are just as bad as the conservatives. Both work to subvert progress.

And btw, I consider myself an optimistic (glass half full) guy.
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  #5828  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 2:39 AM
urbancore urbancore is offline
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Agreed. It will NEVER happen in Austin. Costs too much, serves too few. The burbs will never vote themselves a tax raise so that a hipster can get to airport/HEB/Franklins a few minutes faster.

Saddest of all, we will NEVER have the density required to afford it, and to make it a success.

It’s all numbers, and the way our town is zoned and laid out, the numbers will never be there. EVER!

Our only hope is autonomous cars, and that the gov works with that industry and not against it. The liberals are just as bad as the conservatives. Both work to subvert progress.

And btw, I consider myself an optimistic (glass half full) guy.
Code Next won’t change a thing. Maybe Bezos can help, that’s it. We are a backward little-ish college town....really.
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  #5829  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 6:45 AM
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And btw, I consider myself an optimistic (glass half full) guy.
Man, I'm glad you're not a pessimist...
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  #5830  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 2:43 PM
Novacek Novacek is offline
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post

#3a. open a blue line (the remnants of LoneStar Rail), but in sole operation. Eminent domain is a thing, so use it. The blue line, as well, will have much better access to downtown's core because of the extension in #1.
Unfortunately, eminent domain isn't a thing, not when it comes to interstate railroads. Localities/states can't eminent domain railroads, only the federal government can.


Googling actually found me this

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/frac/PDF/landusereg.pdf

which is a list of all the ways the feds have preempted basically any non-federal regulation of railroads. Interesting if you have the time.
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  #5831  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 2:45 PM
Novacek Novacek is offline
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post

#6. THIS is the piece that, if built or not, would make or break the entire system:

We desperately need UT, the Capitol Complex, Mueller, and Riverside to be tied into the commuter system, as well as needing a north/south spine for downtown. In that vein, create a spur from the red line at 35 and Airport following Airport until Manor, at which time the line would turn toward downtown charting a course down Red River, building a new bridge to the Statesman site at the end of Red River right by MACC would be easy to accomplish is you pitched it to MACC as including a grand new plaza and front seat access to the greatest source of visitors: a rail line. From the Statesman site, turn down Riverside and go down that corridor until the airport.

#7. The only future addition that would make any kind of sense are a western downtown spine splitting off from the red line at N. Lamar and following the 2000 plan exactly by heading down Guadalupe to follow Riverside and then down South Congress in stages but eventually to Slaughter (or further in the median of 35). I'd also build the small bit of rail to allow the South Congress line to cross over the Statesman bridge or the Riverside/Airport corridor to cross over the Guadalupe bridge.

#8. And maybe, after that, an E-W connection thru the Capitol Complex or on MLK (ideally) or 15th between the two N-S spines, so that we could create a downtown circulator of some sort and add more versatility to the system overall.

#9. I'd also maybe throw West Austin a bone by adding a short spur to the former LoneStar down Lake Austin Blvd.

In total, this is probably 8 BIL of work.
I know some concerns have been brought up about the required turning radiuses of the DMUs. I don't recall the exact figures to know if the turns/spurs you describe above are feasible.
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  #5832  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 4:25 PM
Novacek Novacek is offline
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The final corridor plan for Guadalupe is out. As expected, it calls for transit-only lanes on the drag.

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/def...NAL_Report.pdf
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  #5833  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
The final corridor plan for Guadalupe is out. As expected, it calls for transit-only lanes on the drag.

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/def...NAL_Report.pdf
Does this go up for a public vote?
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  #5834  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 6:11 PM
Novacek Novacek is offline
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Does this go up for a public vote?
Not directly, it de facto had a public vote by being part of the bond in 2016.
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  #5835  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 6:52 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
The final corridor plan for Guadalupe is out. As expected, it calls for transit-only lanes on the drag.

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/def...NAL_Report.pdf
It's a good move for mass transit but it puts more stress on MLK from Lavaca/Gualupe to N Lamar as well as N. Lamar in general in that area which are not construction eligible corridors from the 2016 bond. Still, it's the right move.

The GUESS for construction cost is 33 million but that would obviously be subject to further study. Here is the full report: http://austintexas.gov/sites/default...NAL_Report.pdf
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  #5836  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 12:47 AM
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http://www.mystatesman.com/news/toll...x0nksJ4iPMVNI/

Quote:
State transportation officials, reacting to anti-toll pressure from Gov. Greg Abbott and Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, voted Thursday to remove all new tollway projects from a key 10-year construction plan — including what would have been the addition of two toll lanes to each side of Interstate 35 through Central Texas.

That 5-0 vote came despite the pleas of nearly a dozen Central Texas political, civic and business leaders — including Austin Mayor Steve Adler, state Sen. Kirk Watson, Travis County Commissioner Gerald Daugherty and Capital Metro board Chairman Wade Cooper — to keep the I-35 express lanes in the plan.
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  #5837  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 2:49 AM
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The good news is now everyone is going to come together and think of a plan without tolls that will satisfy the increasing demand of people getting from one place to another. This plan to be announced in the coming days...
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  #5838  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:16 AM
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The good news is now everyone is going to come together and think of a plan without tolls that will satisfy the increasing demand of people getting from one place to another. This plan to be announced in the coming days...
Yes, just days away. I'm sure of it. But I'm going with the other option: The gridlock will continue for 10 more years because there is now no expansion plan and no proposed funding for the no plan.
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  #5839  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:33 AM
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Absent a change in the State's position on tolls and a sudden and unexpected cash bonanza for TxDOT, I think we're now looking at one of the older expansion options. That would be the strengthening of the upper deck supports so a third lane could be added by re-striping it and the closure of the entrances and exits on the lower deck so a third lane could be squeezed in there. The difference now is that the additional lower deck lane would not be tolled as previously planned. The removal of the upper decks and addition of underground lanes is probably not going to happen.
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  #5840  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 4:37 AM
urbancore urbancore is offline
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The removal of the upper decks and addition of underground lanes is probably not going to happen.
Fuck me runnin......
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