Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I know the Mike Harris era was much better for transit in Ontario. Right??????

From the point of view of transit development in Ottawa, what was the meaningful difference between the Harris years and the McGuinty years? Harris and successors wasted one decade, McGuinty another.

[1overcosc]

Harris slashed operating funding for transit, which the McGuinty government very partially restored with its gas tax grant.

[rocketphish]

Big changes coming to Scott, Albert streets once LRT opens
New-look thoroughfare up for discussion at community meeting Monday night

By Trevor Pritchard, CBC News
Posted: Dec 11, 2017 6:34 PM ET Last Updated: Dec 11, 2017 6:34 PM ET

The City of Ottawa has unveiled its plan for how a two-kilometre stretch of Scott and Albert streets will look following the expected opening of the east-west Confederation light rail line next summer.

The reconfigured stretch will run from approximately the City Centre building westward to Tunney's Pasture, and cyclists, pedestrians and drivers will all see major changes to how the roadway operates.

According to the city's drawings — on display at a public meeting tonight — the number of lanes would be reduced from four to three, with two lanes for westbound traffic but only one heading east toward downtown.

A multi-use pathway that currently exists on the north side of Scott and Albert streets will remain, but will eventually be made off-limits to eastbound cyclists.

Those cyclists will instead use a raised "cycle track" on the opposite side of the streets, the documents show.

Eastbound bus stops will also be placed on platforms that jut out from the curb, allowing cyclists to pass behind them.



"I like that the city is doing something at all. They could've just been really cheap and said we'll wait until Phase 2 of the LRT opens, and then we'll do things," said Eric Darwin, who blogs about urban issues in Ottawa at West Side Action.

However, Darwin told CBC Radio's All in a Day he was concerned the plans don't do enough to improve the heavily-used Bayview Road intersection, and that the multi-use pathway should remain open in both directions.

"I think [the cycle track] will be appealing to people who want to go quite quickly, like the commuters," Darwin said. "But the pathway is much more appealing to older people like myself, or people who are recreational cyclists."

Kitchisippi Coun. Jeff Leiper said Darwin had many legitimate concerns about the plan, but called the separated cycle track — which would be kept clear in the winter — a "huge leap forward" over what the city proposed in the spring.

He also noted this was an "interim step" until Scott and Albert become what's known as a complete street — a road that's shared equally by cars, cyclists, pedestrians and transit users.

"There is clearly some latitude to make further improvements," Leiper told All in a Day. "And I hope these are the sorts of considerations that residents are going to be raising this evening."

In the planning documents, the city says it could revisit the proposed three-lane configuration if development along the corridor requires the fourth lane to be reopened to traffic.

One major development in the works along that corridor is a multi-use building at 900 Albert St., just across from the future Bayview LRT station, that would feature more than 1,600 residential units along with retail and office space.

The plan marks the second major redesign of the two streets in less than three years.

Scott and Albert streets were both widened to accommodate thousands of OC Transpo buses displaced from the Transitway when LRT construction began in 2016.

Many nearby residents did not appreciate those changes.

Tonight's open house on the Scott Street reconfiguration runs from 6 p.m until 8:30 p.m. at the Tom Brown Arena. Residents are able to submit comments on the plan until Dec. 18.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/scott-street-cycling-all-in-a-day-1.4443212

[rocketphish]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/scott-street-cycling-all-in-a-day-1.4443212

[Multi-modal]

Anyone go to the Open House and ask why they are going with 1 EB lane and 2 WB lanes? It just seems like such an odd roadway configuration. Why not 1 EB and 1 WB with extra turn lanes at major intersections?? That would be more of a normal layout.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Anyone go to the Open House and ask why they are going with 1 EB lane and 2 WB lanes? It just seems like such an odd roadway configuration. Why not 1 EB and 1 WB with extra turn lanes at major intersections?? That would be more of a normal layout.

I don't know but makes sense to me. Eastbound there is little reason to turn left. Westbound lots of left turns.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't know but makes sense to me. Eastbound there is little reason to turn left. Westbound lots of left turns.

Right, I follow you for turning into the little streets like Piney, Hilda, Hinchey, etc.. etc... I still think that could be accomplished for the most part with 1 Westbound, 1 Eastbound, and a central lane that switches between westbound left-turn and eastbound left-turn (moreso westbound left-turn).

I don't mind the layout in most of the study area to be honest, but over the Albert Street Bridge the 2 WB lanes seem like such a waste when they could be going to a buffer for the cycling lanes, and wider sidewalks so close to Bayview Station.

[zzptichka]

Here's the full plan btw: http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/scott_albert_plan_en.pdf

Highlight for me is 7 blocks without a crossing between Carruthers and Bayview with a bus stop in the middle of it and uni-directional cycle track. Who does that?

[Kitchissippi]

I don't understand why they're putting on-street parking on Scott. There aren't any there now and they're just creating potential traffic problems when drivers back into those spots. Patrolling those spaces for a mere 15 cars is ridiculous when there are side streets and this is along an LRT line.

Referring to my rant on planners using "uniformity" as a reason on another thread, why aren't they proposing equal raised cycle tracks on both sides of the street with a sidewalk on the south side and a MUP on the north? This to me would be the most sensible configuration that caters to different types of cyclists. There is more than enough room to do this especially if they omitted those unnecessary parking spots.

To bad they didn't consider doing an express bikeway in the transitway trench. If they managed to put a MUP pass-though at Lees Station, they could have done that in all the stations along here, too.

[1overcosc]

The on-street parking fetish has to end. They need to be eliminating street parking on major streets altogether. Use sidestreet spaces and garages instead. Street parkers slow down traffic when they have to pull in and out of spaces (especially all those 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 suburban drivers in their oversized vehicles who take a billion tries to parallel park), and the spots take up space that could be so much better utilized.

In Kingston the city is trying to remove parking from main streets and it's like pulling teeth; everyone 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 about it. The most hilarious was this one restaurant that made headlines for months on end about how its business would be ruined if the spots in front of it were taken away; when people pointed out there were plenty of free sidestreet spots within 100 metres of the front door, the response was "we get a lot of older folks who can't walk far" . Lo and behold, the spots were removed and the restaurant is still there three years later.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The on-street parking fetish has to end. They need to be eliminating street parking on major streets altogether. Use sidestreet spaces and garages instead. Street parkers slow down traffic when they have to pull in and out of spaces (especially all those 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 suburban drivers in their oversized vehicles who take a billion tries to parallel park), and the spots take up space that could be so much better utilized.

Not sure I agree with this. I don't think that the city's goal should be speeding up traffic on major streets, especially in dense urban areas (which this will be) with lots of pedestrians. On-street parking provides the best buffer for pedestrians on those types of streets and ultimately makes a neighbourhood more walkable and human scaled.

Traffic speeds on streets like Albert and Bronson are a huge issue in making our streets safer for pedestrians. On street parking reminds drivers that these streets aren't just highways for getting them to their destination.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not sure I agree with this. I don't think that the city's goal should be speeding up traffic on major streets, especially in dense urban areas (which this will be) with lots of pedestrians. On-street parking provides the best buffer for pedestrians on those types of streets and ultimately makes a neighbourhood more walkable and human scaled.

Traffic speeds on streets like Albert and Bronson are a huge issue in making our streets safer for pedestrians. On street parking reminds drivers that these streets aren't just highways for getting them to their destination.

Narrowing travel lanes and having frequent signalized intersections can achieve this effect as well, in a better way than hogging up valuable mainstreet space for parking. Think of all the things we could do with that space freed up.

Example: I can't help but notice the one time I was on Main post-rebuild is that there's no transit priority measures so buses are now stuck in the increased congestion from narrowing the road. Pedestrians and cyclists benefit but transit users lost. If they took out the parking spaces on Main they could fit in queue jump lanes and other transit priority measures that could fix that.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Narrowing travel lanes and having frequent signalized intersections can achieve this effect as well, in a better way than hogging up valuable mainstreet space for parking. Think of all the things we could do with that space freed up.

Example: I can't help but notice the one time I was on Main post-rebuild is that there's no transit priority measures so buses are now stuck in the increased congestion from narrowing the road. Pedestrians and cyclists benefit but transit users lost. If they took out the parking spaces on Main they could fit in queue jump lanes and other transit priority measures that could fix that.

The city's order of priority these days seems to be.

Cyclists
Parked cars
Moving cars
Transit
Pedestrians

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The city's order of priority these days seems to be.

Cyclists
Parked cars
Moving cars
Transit
Pedestrians

Explain Elgin, Bronson, Bank, Sparks, Rideau and essentially any other DESTINATION street that's being rebuilt nowadays in the city.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Explain Elgin, Bronson, Bank, Sparks, Rideau and essentially any other DESTINATION street that's being rebuilt nowadays in the city.

Bank was rebuilt over a decade ago, Bronson close to a decade ago, Sparks hasn't been reconstructed in decades. Rideau and Elgin are the two recent reconstructions that don't include bicycle lanes.

I guess Wellington, Albert, Slater, Laurier, O'Connor, Bay, Percy, Mackenzie, Sussex, Laurier, Montreal, Macarthur, St. Laurent, Coventry, Ogilve, Cyrville, Belfast, Tremblay, Churchill, Scott, Richmond and Main aren't good enough for you.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Bank was rebuilt over a decade ago, Bronson close to a decade ago, Sparks hasn't been reconstructed in decades. Rideau and Elgin are the two recent reconstructions that don't include bicycle lanes.

I guess Wellington, Albert, Slater, Laurier, O'Connor, Bay, Percy, Mackenzie, Sussex, Laurier, Montreal, Macarthur, St. Laurent, Coventry, Ogilve, Cyrville, Belfast, Tremblay, Churchill, Scott, Richmond and Main aren't good enough for you.

Beechwood.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Narrowing travel lanes and having frequent signalized intersections can achieve this effect as well, in a better way than hogging up valuable mainstreet space for parking. Think of all the things we could do with that space freed up.

Example: I can't help but notice the one time I was on Main post-rebuild is that there's no transit priority measures so buses are now stuck in the increased congestion from narrowing the road. Pedestrians and cyclists benefit but transit users lost. If they took out the parking spaces on Main they could fit in queue jump lanes and other transit priority measures that could fix that.

Narrowing travel lanes helps, but it doesn't provide a protective barrier for pedestrians, so the feeling of vulnerability remains, and is possibly enhanced with traffic even closer to the sidewalk. More frequent signalized intersections have the same impact as parking - they cause delays for through traffic.

I don't disagree about the impact of transit on Main, but Main was always congested and transit was always slow in peak periods. As a neighbourhood main street, I think street parking is an important element of the street.

If we want arterials with no slowdowns, streets like Main are not the right place for those.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

Narrowing travel lanes helps, but it doesn't provide a protective barrier for pedestrians, so the feeling of vulnerability remains, and is possibly enhanced with traffic even closer to the sidewalk. More frequent signalized intersections have the same impact as parking - they cause delays for through traffic.

I don't disagree about the impact of transit on Main, but Main was always congested and transit was always slow in peak periods. As a neighbourhood main street, I think street parking is an important element of the street.

If we want arterials with no slowdowns, streets like Main are not the right place for those.

Ideally we want our mainstreets to be fast roads for transit, slow roads for private cars, and convenient roads for pedestrians. The best way to do that is to have our mainstreets designed with bus lanes (or queue jump lanes if there isn't enough room for bus lanes), closely spaced traffic lights with short cycle times, and transit signal priority. Closely spaced traffic lights and short cycle times make the street convenient for pedestrians, the bus lanes/queue jump lanes and signal priority make the street fast for transit users, and the frequent signals make the road slow for private cars.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

when people pointed out there were plenty of free sidestreet spots within 100 metres of the front door, the response was "we get a lot of older folks who can't walk far"

I wonder what those "older folks" did when all of the parking spots in front of the restaurant were taken? Wait for someone to leave?

Originally Posted by phil235

Not sure I agree with this. I don't think that the city's goal should be speeding up traffic on major streets, especially in dense urban areas (which this will be) with lots of pedestrians. On-street parking provides the best buffer for pedestrians on those types of streets and ultimately makes a neighbourhood more walkable and human scaled.

Traffic speeds on streets like Albert and Bronson are a huge issue in making our streets safer for pedestrians. On street parking reminds drivers that these streets aren't just highways for getting them to their destination.

There are much better ways to calm traffic than provide on street parking. While it does provide a buffer for pedestrians, it makes for a dangerous situation for cyclists. Not only is there the risk of dooring but unless lane markings show otherwise, it encourages the unsafe practice of weaving in and out of traffic between parked cars (it is safer to cycle in a straight, predictable line).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

Narrowing travel lanes helps, but it doesn't provide a protective barrier for pedestrians, so the feeling of vulnerability remains, and is possibly enhanced with traffic even closer to the sidewalk.

But street parking only provides a protective barrier and slows traffic when cars are parked on the street. Adding bollards (optimally between the bike lane and road) will provide a protective barrier and slow traffic at all times.