PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Frontst17]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Ya, just about every comment in the last day or so has pretty much said that 1487 was a complete 🞵🞵🞵, but that he brought a unique perspective to the table, one that was mostly appreciated. I think he was regularly challenged on these pages and rarely took the bait, he just kept telling all of us that only he new what was going on. He was consistent against the board.

If anything the choir seems to be asking when will 1487 2.0 appear. Personally, I'll take and enjoy the vacation.

It really seems you and maybe one other had a problem with him, and you made yourself look like an 🞵🞵🞵 in the process. Majority of the time he was insightful and correct on his statements.

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Oh sorry, I didn't realize this was the 1487 memorial thread, I thought this was the Philly Highrise Thread.

Lololol Nice one!

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

It really seems you and maybe one other had a problem with him, and you made yourself look like an 🞵🞵🞵 in the process. Majority of the time he was insightful and correct on his statements.

Completely untrue.

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by ePlanningPhila

I know I have seen it on this forum. Can someone repost the RFP that Macy's Inc is looking to open a full line Bloomingdale's in Center City. I never saved the document but was interested to see it again.

Thanks!

Are you sure it wasn't regarding their outlet location at 17th and Chestnut?

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

Are you sure it wasn't regarding their outlet location at 17th and Chestnut?

Salove has them as a tenant in the market: http://www.mscretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bloomingdales_One-Sheet_sm-1.pdf

RFP is a strong word for that document and I'd be surprised to see this land anywhere as it's been circling for years and I just don't see a place for them to go. Fashion District is officially too down market. They'd never accept that kind of co-tenancy. Ditto for East Market which never had the contiguous sf to handle them in the first place. They'd either need to work with a developer of an as-yet unbuilt building to specifically design around them, such as 1301 Market (though fitting that much space for them would be tough on a small footprint) or probably be willing to do a smaller store. The lobby and adjacent floors at 123 South Broad would be spectacular for them architecturally, but again I don't know that there's anywhere in Center City with the kind of adjacent brands they want.

[Philly Fan]

For what it's worth, from Inc. Magazine:

Top 6 Cities Most Likely to Host Amazon's Second Headquarters

Inc. culled data from a number of sources -- betting sites, shipping experts, investors, and people familiar with Amazon, among others -- to come up with the following list of top contenders, ranked (more or less) in order of likelihood.

1. Atlanta
2. Chicago
3. Austin
4. Philadelphia
5. Boston
6. Washington, D.C.

4. Philadelphia

The city's mayor recently told reporters that Philadelphia represents a "Goldilocks zone" for the e-commerce giant, and he may not be wrong. In a report released in October, Moody's Analytics ranked the City of Brotherly Love as the third-most ideal location for Amazon, coming up just behind Austin and Atlanta, while NYU's Ginsberg suggests that Philadelphia is the city that most often appears across these varied analyses. In addition to its proximity to Eastern hubs including New York City and Washington, D.C., Philadelphia and the surrounding metro area includes dozens of prominent universities, including the University of Pennsylvania and Drexel. Plus, suggests Tusk, Amazon would get some credit for investing in a city that has struggled with issues such as income inequality and public safety. Paddy Powers give the city odds of 16:1.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ It would be interesting to see their methodology, but the general description of what went into Inc.'s guesswork seems comprehensive and sensible enough (rather than crunching selective numbers). This is a list that reflects what seems to be common wisdom about the real contenders. I'm glad we're number 4, even with Paddy Power dragging us down. Even #1 (on Paddy Power) Atlanta only has 3:1 odds.

[Mr Saturn64]

You know, this Amazon speculation has been going on and off here for months, and not very much has changed. It's like picking the football games of the week. You can pick someone, roll with it, argue for it, but that won't mean anything until game day.

[mcgrath618]

Do we have an estimated announcement date yet?

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

Salove has them as a tenant in the market: http://www.mscretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bloomingdales_One-Sheet_sm-1.pdf

RFP is a strong word for that document and I'd be surprised to see this land anywhere as it's been circling for years and I just don't see a place for them to go. Fashion District is officially too down market. They'd never accept that kind of co-tenancy. Ditto for East Market which never had the contiguous sf to handle them in the first place. They'd either need to work with a developer of an as-yet unbuilt building to specifically design around them, such as 1301 Market (though fitting that much space for them would be tough on a small footprint) or probably be willing to do a smaller store. The lobby and adjacent floors at 123 South Broad would be spectacular for them architecturally, but again I don't know that there's anywhere in Center City with the kind of adjacent brands they want.

Yea its really a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, I know Macy's in Center City is their top performing store in the region, and one of the top in their portfolio, and is a big reason why they want to expand with a full line Bloomingdale's in Center City. As you correctly stated though, they are having a challenging time finding a site, with significant ground presence and the right mix of upscale co - tenancy in close proximity. Even the Broad and Spruce site, would be a retail island and quite isolated.

Its a roll of the dice with Fashion District Philadelphia IMO. I give it a 50:50 odds, PRIET signs them. I know PREIT and Macerich are working to model Fashion District Philadelphia as much as they can after Fashion Outlets Chicago. Part of the reason they changed the name from Fashion Outlets Philadelphia to Fashion District Philadelphia, was to sign some high mid market/ higher market retailers. If you look at Fashion Outlets Chicago, you will see some aspects of their tenancy are compelling.

The best bet from a new development standpoint would be the commercial building proposed at 13/Market. But I do not think incorporating a large retail tenant is a priority for this project. Although retail is a component. But I am not sure how much. And I have not read or heard of any updates on this building in quite a while. https://philly.curbed.com/2016/12/20/14014322/1301-market-office-tower-renderings-philadelphia

[MikeNigh]

[Knight Hospitaller]

I don't know the size, but PREIT is consolidating the parcels further down Market, across from the FDP/Gallery (where the curvy Robinson's facade is). If the rebranded FDP is still too "downscale" for Bloomie's, maybe the site across the street would offer more square footage than 1301, while remaining on a retail strip. Of course, if 8th & Market ever gets the desired mega project going, I'm sure they could work that in.

[iheartphilly]

Bloomies needs to be part of the FDP mix to lend further validity to the "District." Especially, in that Bloomies is higher up in the clothing food chain and more expensive. A good mix of clothing brands and style that is absent from say a Macy's.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ I tend to think that dropping the "outlet" branding would make the project acceptable to Bloomie's. Unless they're willing to wait for something better that may never come along, it would seem ideal. In today's retail climate you can't look down on the neighbors too much. Outside of parts of Manhattan, Michigan Ave., and the like - or successful malls like KOP - you're unlikely to find "pure" pockets of high end retail. Again, if they reject an opportunity at FDP, I'm sure PREIT can make a pitch for building something across the street.

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

^ I tend to think that dropping the "outlet" branding would make the project acceptable to Bloomie's. Unless they're willing to wait for something better that may never come along, it would seem ideal. In today's retail climate you can't look down on the neighbors too much. Outside of parts of Manhattan, Michigan Ave., and the like - or successful malls like KOP - you're unlikely to find "pure" pockets of high end retail. Again, if they reject an opportunity at FDP, I'm sure PREIT can make a pitch for building something across the street.

Retailers are historically very skiddish. Given that Macy's is already here and they presumably understand its site context then you'd think they'd be more willing than some to take a chance on market Street, but it's a world of difference between 13th and 11th. The last I saw proposed tenants for FDP, they were looking at Primark for the space under the theater. Jumping from Primark up to a Bloomie's is a fairly epic leap, and I'm not sure that the replacement of the word "outlet" with the word "district" is enough to make that happen.

Consolidating and building standalone across the street from FDP seems most likely, and probably not until both East Market and FDP are delivered and site selection peeps get comfortable with the nicer looking and feeling street. Would be a real vote of confidence to get a Bloomingdale's, but then again, who knows where retail is going.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ I mainly agree. I just note that Bloomies shares the immensity of KOP with Primark (despite being at the end of a row of high-end shopping). Maybe the smaller footprint at FDP would make Primark too close for comfort and that site "on the other side of the tracks" would better suit. Unless something magically appeared in the skies over Walnut Street, they're never going to get the "gated community" type of retail feel. Of course, all of this assumes that they are even looking to do something like this anymore. Maybe they should put a store here so they can spy on Amazon. :-)

[McBane]

Bloomingdales - 1911 Walnut? Seems like a great location but (unfortunately) retail just stops at 18th Street. 1911 might be a little too out of the way for them, not to mention the uncertainty of the project itself.

[iheartphilly]

Does 1911 have the contiguous square footing to support a bloomies? Maybe a scale down version would work but not sure how corporate would feel about it. I really think bloomies should belong in the FDP. It's framed that way by the developers and the foot traffic and whole atmosphere seems to fit their MO.

[ePlanningPhila]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

^ I mainly agree. I just note that Bloomies shares the immensity of KOP with Primark (despite being at the end of a row of high-end shopping). Maybe the smaller footprint at FDP would make Primark too close for comfort and that site "on the other side of the tracks" would better suit. Unless something magically appeared in the skies over Walnut Street, they're never going to get the "gated community" type of retail feel. Of course, all of this assumes that they are even looking to do something like this anymore. Maybe they should put a store here so they can spy on Amazon. :-)

1911 Walnut IMO is too small and awkward of a footprint to land there. And FDP is more than enough if the right tenant mix can operate there. Have any of you been to Willow Grove or seen its retail footprint? There are a smattering of nice stores adjacent to its location, but nothing that expensive or extreme. PREIT just needs a few relatively attractive tenant mixes in adjacent proximity to make the sell to Bloomingdale's. Even with Cherry Hill mall, there are only a smattering of higher end stores adjacent to Nordstrom. Cherry Hill is not a luxury mall by any means. Neither Bloomingdale's or Nordstrom are luxury retailer's per say. They are upper mid market/lower high in most markets they operate stores within. With that they most definitely want a piece of the Center City pie knowing how well Macy's does 2 blocks away in Center City. Let's hope PREIT has the competence to make it happen.

[hammersklavier]

The last I heard about Gallery 2.0 leasings, Primark is taking space in the old Gimbels building and Bloomie's is interested in the space below the movie theater proposal. This is, though, only hearsay from Summers.

What I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty, though, is that if the Bloomies outlet and Nordstrom Rack over by 17th & Chestnut are performing well, then they'll probably both be wanting full-line stores in the city. And redevelopment of Market East is probably their best chance of making that happen while the going's good.