Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's in the NHL's best interest to keep all of its franchises where they currently are.

Is it? On what level? If a franchise is losing money that hurts the league as a whole. Carolina is a draw from the revenue sharing program. Quebec city would at the very minimum not draw but not contribute. But most likely contribute to that Program.

It also stirs up 100M in relocation fee's that otherwise would not be in the owners pockets again strengthening the league.

You're Basically saying it was better for the league to have the thrashers in Atlanta then Winnipeg having them.

I get what you're saying. But i don't agree

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Is it? On what level? If a franchise is losing money that hurts the league as a whole.

On a franchise stability and valuation level. Moving franchises around shows instability in the business structure in the league as a whole.

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Carolina is a draw from the revenue sharing program. Quebec city would at the very minimum not draw but not contribute. But most likely contribute to that Program.

Quebec doesn't contribute to a potential US national TV deal and is not an area for future NHL growth. Yes, Quebec would have more physical people in seats, but it's not in a region (the Southeast) with potential for new fans. New fans is where growth is - the province of Quebec is likely maxed out in the number of people that are NHL fans.

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

It also stirs up 100M in relocation fee's that otherwise would not be in the owners pockets again strengthening the league.

Quebec has shown repeatedly that they're willing to pay $500M for an expansion team. Why would owners go $100M in relocation instead? Because they were foolish enough to build an NHL arena without an NHL team they've perpetually put themselves in line for an expansion franchise and the NHL will use that against them by threatening relocation to others.

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

You're Basically saying it was better for the league to have the thrashers in Atlanta then Winnipeg having them.

Effectively for the NHL's business structure, yes. TV deals and potential revenue streams are always going to be worth more than people in seats because there's always a ceiling on the latter. A successful team in Atlanta opens up massive potential for the league in an area where they're effectively invisible.

All of this includes the fact that the Canadian dollar is trading at something like $0.77 American right now, too. That puts a strain on most Canadian franchises as they pay salaries in USD but gain revenue in CAD.

I agree that the NHL probably should have a franchise in Quebec but that's not how the franchised-based, league-operated system runs unfortunately. Money is always going to be the end game. I'm one of those odd folks who prefers pro/rel in my sports leagues to determine who gets to play in the league's exclusive club.

[cjones2451]

Good thing Daryl Katz got the deal he did in Edmonton, as it left him a bit of money to buy a small shack in LA

https://sports.yahoo.com/oilers-owne...005203706.html

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Good thing Daryl Katz got the deal he did in Edmonton, as it left him a bit of money to buy a small shack in LA

https://sports.yahoo.com/oilers-owne...005203706.html

Yea the 3B's he had in hand before that would have barely covered that...

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Good thing Daryl Katz got the deal he did in Edmonton, as it left him a bit of money to buy a small shack in LA

https://sports.yahoo.com/oilers-owne...005203706.html

Filthy rich and uses taxpayers to pay for his arena in Edmonton... but the city/country isn't good enough to live in so he spends 120m on a mansion in another country. He's scum.

[User Name]

Lots of salty poor folks up in here lol

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by User Name

Lots of salty poor folks up in here lol

Haha yeah those rich people really got it made, too bad they gotta deal with those jealous filthy peasants

Nobody should be ganging up on poor old Daryl Katz, he worked really hard to screw taxpayers and spend his money elsewhere, those poor folks are just really s a l t y that their hard earned money went to a guy who's already vastly more wealthy than they can ever dream of being

[Oilkountry]

I wonder if people are gonna gang up on the owners of Quebecor like this when the NHL comes back to Quebec playing in that new 100% publicly funded arena?

Would anyone feel bad for katz if he spent 1/5th of his wealth on an arena, just for the city to profit eventual 100's of millions off the new taxes Yeg will receive over the next 30+ years? Would you justice warriors be up in arms about the unfair terms?

Jesus, the billionaire wants to winter in LA like a million other Canadians. Are you guys mad when your grandparents or parents do it? Shut up already. And hes renting it at 750K a Month. its an investment. you people are nuts

[WhipperSnapper]

It's done. Time to stop beating the dead horse. No one is changing their mind. The proof is right here; just for the city to profit eventual 100's of millions off the new taxes Yeg will receive over the next 30+ years?

100s of millions in new taxes from a stadium? The Ice District shouldn't be lumped together (not that 100s of millions in taxes is remotely possible.) The city doesn't have any equity in the retail, hotel, office and residential towers. They won't be getting a share of the revenues/profits for sales and leases. They can only collect taxes like with every other property in the city. So what if property values will have increased substantially with the new towers. It's not different from any other development.

[240glt]

^ plus, isn't it pretty standard practice for people who get rich to do it with other people's money ?

I have no issue with Katz buying that place. He's barely an Edmontonian as it is anyways. It's a pretty swanky shack

Edmonton still signed a shitty deal, yes. But big screwups with public dollars are hardly new here.

[WhipperSnapper]

One last thing... There a lot of shady backroom hand shaking that led to the construction of Quebec's Videotron Centre but, it's still not comparable to the situation in Edmonton where a team pursued and got a sweetheart deal from the city.

I've accepted Edmontonians are fine with this deal. There have and will be much worst deals made too. I'll try hard to accept Edmonton's forumers flat out denial that this is costing the city regardless of the uptick in tax revenues from these blocks.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ plus, isn't it pretty standard practice for people who get rich to do it with other people's money ?

I have no issue with Katz buying that place. He's barely an Edmontonian as it is anyways. It's a pretty swanky shack

Edmonton still signed a shitty deal, yes. But big screwups with public dollars are hardly new here.

Yes, this type of stupid use of taxpayers money isn't new. But what makes it more ridiculous every time it happens is that there's a foundation of these bad deals to learn from - yet some cities still fall for it. Why learn from your own mistakes when you can learn from someone else's instead?
This time is NOT different.

Major kudos to Calgary for sticking to its guns.

Katz can suck a bag of dicks.

[itom 987]

You guys are aware that Katz is now in the movie making business, right?

[Black Star]

So a rich guy buys a house with his own money.

And some Nancies get pissed off. Boo hoo.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by itom 987

You guys are aware that Katz is now in the movie making business, right?

Of course he is. Naturally flashy billionaire guy is going to be in the "movie business".

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I've accepted Edmontonians are fine with this deal. There have and will be much worst deals made too. I'll try hard to accept Edmonton's forumers flat out denial that this is costing the city regardless of the uptick in tax revenues from these blocks.

People don't like to admit they made a terrible deal. They will go to the ends of the earth to rationalize it.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's done. Time to stop beating the dead horse. No one is changing their mind. The proof is right here; just for the city to profit eventual 100's of millions off the new taxes Yeg will receive over the next 30+ years?

100s of millions in new taxes from a stadium? The Ice District shouldn't be lumped together (not that 100s of millions in taxes is remotely possible.)The city doesn't have any equity in the retail, hotel, office and residential towers. They won't be getting a share of the revenues/profits for sales and leases. They can only collect taxes like with every other property in the city. So what if property values will have increased substantially with the new towers. It's not different from any other development.

http://edmontonsun.com/2016/10/14/rogers-place-helping-edmonton-take-back-the-night/wcm/ae35f73d-9670-4ceb-a00a-b25462e4a04e"]http://edmontonsun.com/2016/10/14/ro...a-b25462e4a04e[/URL]

Glory hallelujah, former Mayor Steve Mandel was right. The arena is not a drain on the city coffers. The arena ticket tax (roughly averaging out to $8 a ticket), the rent the Oilers pay ($15 million a year), and the city subsidy formerly given to Northlands for Rexall Place ($2.5 million a year) is covering payments on the $485 million the city borrowed for the arena’s construction.

The Oiler organization is expected to cover all operating expenses. While vague on specifics, the agreement says further capital investment is the responsibility of the tenant.

Payments on the additional $127 million the city spent on public spaces around the arena, including Ford Hall at the Rogers Place entrance, the community rink and LRT connections, will be more than covered by the city’s downtown Community Revitalization Levy (CRL). The CRL is funded from the increased property taxes created by new development around the arena (the Ice District) and throughout the downtown.

The CRL revenues have been the icing on the cake. Nobody expected such a huge investment, so quickly, by the Katz Group in the Ice District.

The master agreement called on Katz to invest a minimum of $100 million in surrounding property development. The total investment, in the Ice District alone with its four towers now under construction, is north of $2 billion.

Those four towers alone will generate $13 million a year in new property taxes – all going into the CRL. Payments on the $127 million (assuming the equivalent of a 25-year, 5% mortgage) invested by the city in the arena’s public spaces would be about $8 million a year. The arena itself – the tenant – also pays city property taxes.

13 Million a year X 30 =390M.....100's of millions

[240glt]

You know that's just drum beating from the local media who have been tasked with boosting this project, and downtown with hype and fanfare. None of that is realized, and since property values are actually falling in the CRL area (for commercial buildings) I am not so sure the rosy projections hold water

A sucker is born every minute it seems.

[WhipperSnapper]

Sucker, for sure. The north of $2 billion has already been completely discredited. At most, it's $1.5 billion. Still Impressive. The point still remains that most other cities manage to get $1.5 billion in investment without spending a dime and they demand just as much in community improvements to public spaces for the right to develop property. I'm used to cities fleecing developers; not the other way around. It's not just the Ice District either. I've read up on Century Park too. This would be a resounding win for Procura in any other city. It's just par for the course in Edmonton.

[Acajack]

Latest info on NHL team valuations

1. Rangers: 1,5 milliard US

2. Maple Leafs: 1,4 milliard US

3. Canadiens: 1,25 milliard US

4. Blackhawks: 1 milliard US

5. Bruins: 890 millions US

8. Canucks: 730 millions US

12. Oilers: 520 millions US

14. Golden Knights: 500 millions US

19. Flames: 430 millions US

20. Sénateurs: 420 millions US

26. Jets: 375 millions US

31. Coyotes: 300 millions US

http://fm1047.ca/nouvelles/sports/62...ipes-de-la-lnh