DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[derek.berardi]

Anyone know anything concerning Block 162? There was movement for a minute and then a long spell of nothingness. Is it seeming like this is just dead at this point?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

That's kind of a broad brush with the whole millennial thing. I for one am as tired by the cheap use (or mis-use) of that word as I am by the cheap use (and mis-use) of the G word.

I'm actually glad that my light-hearted, tongue-in-cheeky post got your attention. We miss your unique insight into things.

It's been awhile since we've discussed affordability and gentrification. I also miss bunt's pithy and wong's elitist comments.

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

The massive I-70 opposition was bordering on irrationality. Yes, it's a disruptive development, but I-70 is already there and the current version through those areas is a decrepit mess

Streetsblog crowd is adamantly opposed to freeways - all of them. All freeways should be replaced by walkable, bikeable boulevards. Apparently they don't grasp the critical commercial function they serve; indeed they have no regional significance; their vision is limited to the neighborhood.

Originally Posted by DUPio

We'll hear the same nonsense about Colfax and Dayton in a few decades

Could we speed that up a little or I won't still be around to know about it.

Originally Posted by twister244

In other gentrification news.....

It appears we finally have some more information on the "Campden" development in RiNo.

I occasionally will drive by one of Camden's projects under construction along Mayo Blvd in Phoenix/Scottsdale and got curious. They more typically build in the burbs including a few in Denver.

[bob rulz]

The perception of gentrification isn't just rich vs poor, it's also black and white, literally. A lot of people seem to have the impression that it's reverse white flight, somehow analogous to the white flight that occurred in the 1960s and 70s, or a concerted effort to displace minorities with white people. Whereas I would see it more as a combination of "white people no longer have any qualms about living side-by-side with minorities in inner cities" and "the economic opportunities of minorities have improved to the point where more minorities can afford to live in suburbs".

Gentrification is just a word for economic investment in previously struggling communities. Will some people be priced out? Yes, and that sucks, but there's definitely an overall net benefit. How many people that oppose gentrification are also free market proponents I wonder?

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

The perception of gentrification isn't just rich vs poor, it's also black and white, literally. A lot of people seem to have the impression that it's reverse white flight, somehow analogous to the white flight that occurred in the 1960s and 70s, or a concerted effort to displace minorities with white people. Whereas I would see it more as a combination of "white people no longer have any qualms about living side-by-side with minorities in inner cities" and "the economic opportunities of minorities have improved to the point where more minorities can afford to live in suburbs".

Gentrification is just a word for economic investment in previously struggling communities. Will some people be priced out? Yes, and that sucks, but there's definitely an overall net benefit. How many people that oppose gentrification are also free market proponents I wonder?

Good points. Also: the booming market and rising prices are impacting persons in Denver of all races and classes. Plenty of people on here have bemoaned the rising home prices and rental rates, indicating they've had to move to "less desirable" areas, or even have, or are, considering leaving the metro area entirely.

A non-minority might view these trends as "neutral" macro economic trends that have adversely impacted them, but they don't see that they've been targeted maliciously.

Clearly, at least some minorities in these neighborhoods see something far more sinister. It isn't that broad based macroeconomics are hurting individuals in these neighborhoods, its that "white people" are targeting people in these neighborhoods with the goal of taking THEIR neighborhoods over and making them "white." (i.e., "white coffee").

Though I don't think that viewing the booming development in Denver through this racial lens is sensible, I can at least understand why that happens. Add to that the fact that the economic pressures from rising housing costs are putting real stresses on lower income persons in the metro area, some of the reasons for this resistance to "gentrification" become clearer.

From the perspective of a long-time resident in those neighborhoods, they might rationally prefer a blighted urban neighborhood with decaying infrastructure that they have and can continue to live in to a rapidly improving neighborhood with new housing, retail and businesses that they will no longer be able to afford and will likely have to leave.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Good points. Also: the booming market and rising prices are impacting persons in Denver of all races and classes. Plenty of people on here have bemoaned the rising home prices and rental rates, indicating they've had to move to "less desirable" areas, or even have, or are, considering leaving the metro area entirely.

Not to mention the news of the day. U.S. GDP growth was revised up to 3.3% rate for third quarter with a strong 4th quarter also anticipated. This has caused the bond market and tech stocks to sell off. After yesterday's new Fed Chair's more 'liberal' views on regs there's a rotation into bank/finance stocks. Add in tax reform and the stew gets ever more interesting.

All this 'good' news could cause whiplash next year, especially if construction costs continue to pop and interest rates follow alongside. Will construction evaporate or will the attitude be to power ahead thinking interest rates and material costs will only go even higher?

Bottom line is the rich will continue to prosper while the average Joe and Juanita settle for table scraps. The new Fed chair's job could get very interesting and dicey.

[TakeFive]

Carmel Partners new co-housing project at 1403 Osage St, the Wellington Apartments, will include 4-bedroom units.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...s-unique-co-housing-approach-to-new.html

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Carmel Partners new co-housing project at 1403 Osage St, the Wellington Apartments, will include 4-bedroom units.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...s-unique-co-housing-approach-to-new.html

Since co-housing is the new buzzword it's cute. Or we could just say that it's student housing targeted at the 40,000 kids across the street. But noooo...... co-housing is so much sexier. Hell, it made my balls tingle.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Since co-housing is the new buzzword it's cute. Or we could just say that it's student housing targeted at the 40,000 kids across the street. But noooo...... co-housing is so much sexier. Hell, it made my balls tingle.

Or we can just pretend it's 1968 in re-wind and call it a commune! Peace!!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Since co-housing is the new buzzword it's cute. Or we could just say that it's student housing targeted at the 40,000 kids across the street. But noooo...... co-housing is so much sexier. Hell, it made my balls tingle.

Sheesh, I didn't take time to dial into the location. Now I recall... distracted day I guess; this is like my 2nd blooper of the day.

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Or we can just pretend it's 1968 in re-wind and call it a commune! Peace!!

I couldn't resist... it does at least look very affordable.


Photo: Earth People’s Park, Vermont, 1971 via Phactual

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Sheesh, I didn't take time to dial into the location. Now I recall... distracted day I guess; this is like my 2nd blooper of the day.


I couldn't resist... it does at least look very affordable.


Photo: Earth People’s Park, Vermont, 1971 via Phactual

Now that's real co-housing!

[rds70]

Coors Field West Parking Lot Redevelopment Moving Forward:

Link: https://crej.com/news/rockies-step-plate-mixed-use-development

[twister244]

Originally Posted by rds70

Coors Field West Parking Lot Redevelopment Moving Forward:

Link: https://crej.com/news/rockies-step-plate-mixed-use-development

This is outstanding! Although I crave for more renderings of the project. Seems like this project would do wonders connecting the Union Station neighborhood to the Coors Field area.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by rds70

coors field west parking lot redevelopment moving forward:

Link: https://crej.com/news/rockies-step-plate-mixed-use-development

holy cow!! That looks amazing. LOVE the video board on the BOTTOM of the sky bridge between the two structures. Kudos to the Rockies for dreaming big and not filling one of the last big open spots in Lodo with another Alexan Container Ship-like structure.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

holy cow!! That looks amazing. LOVE the video board on the BOTTOM of the sky bridge between the two structures. Kudos to the Rockies for dreaming big and not filling one of the last big open spots in Lodo with another Alexan Container Ship-like structure.

Definitely... I'm also delighted to see that the Colorado Rockies serve as an inspirational theme to the development. The "content plaza" or outdoor gathering space sounds very cool. I also applaud the inclusion of a Colorado Rockies Hall of Fame facility.

This will be YUUUGE for that area of downtown.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Good points. Also: the booming market and rising prices are impacting persons in Denver of all races and classes. Plenty of people on here have bemoaned the rising home prices and rental rates, indicating they've had to move to "less desirable" areas, or even have, or are, considering leaving the metro area entirely.

A non-minority might view these trends as "neutral" macro economic trends that have adversely impacted them, but they don't see that they've been targeted maliciously.

Clearly, at least some minorities in these neighborhoods see something far more sinister. It isn't that broad based macroeconomics are hurting individuals in these neighborhoods, its that "white people" are targeting people in these neighborhoods with the goal of taking THEIR neighborhoods over and making them "white." (i.e., "white coffee").

Though I don't think that viewing the booming development in Denver through this racial lens is sensible, I can at least understand why that happens. Add to that the fact that the economic pressures from rising housing costs are putting real stresses on lower income persons in the metro area, some of the reasons for this resistance to "gentrification" become clearer.

From the perspective of a long-time resident in those neighborhoods, they might rationally prefer a blighted urban neighborhood with decaying infrastructure that they have and can continue to live in to a rapidly improving neighborhood with new housing, retail and businesses that they will no longer be able to afford and will likely have to leave.

I certainly wouldn't suggest that the viewpoints of this vocal minority should be ignored or brushed aside. They certainly have some legitimate concerns. But I'm not sure if a malicious takeover by white people against minorities is one of those concerns. Not that the racial lens should be ignored either, but as you said, the economic boom is affecting people of all ethnicities.

I'm not well versed in Denver specifically - I'm just one of those lurkers from the Salt Lake forum who likes to keep up with developments here as well - but I think this pattern holds for gentrification in general. And it is something I plan on putting a lot of study into once I pursue my degree because the realities of gentrification are complicated so I'm interested in becoming more knowledgeable about it.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I certainly wouldn't suggest that the viewpoints of this vocal minority should be ignored or brushed aside. They certainly have some legitimate concerns. But I'm not sure if a malicious takeover by white people against minorities is one of those concerns.

Well it's impossible to know what's in peoples' hearts I suppose, my comments were based on some the statements made recently by some anti-development opponents, and I did limit my comments to "some people" in those neighborhoods opposing development.

It does remind me of a story a black law professor of mine used to tell. He said when he was in school, there was one certain professor he thought was the biggest racist he had ever met. Every interaction he had with professor seemed to be laced with contempt and disrespect and was pretty sure he knew what it was all about. But one day while waiting outside the professor's door for an appointment, he heard the interaction between the professor and white student from his same class. That student was treated with the same callousness and indifference as he was. My professor said upon hearing that, a big smile of relief came on his face, because he realized the truth: this guy's just an asshole.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

And it is something I plan on putting a lot of study into once I pursue my degree because the realities of gentrification are complicated so I'm interested in becoming more knowledgeable about it.

Someone who I can't recall referred me to John Buntin's piece in Slate: "The Myth of Gentrification." Best comment from that was easily:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...d_not_as_bad_for_the_poor_as_people.html

White people leaving the cities in the 1960's = racist "white flight." White people moving to the city in the 2000's = racist "gentrification".
Oh those whites. Always moving around and ruining everything.

But I suspect the real villains are the lawyers.

[Cirrus]

Instability always causes strife.

Yes it's unfair that whites are blamed for both white flight and gentrification. And yet simultaneously yes it's also unfair that lower income people (especially renters) get displaced. And yes, gentrification is often used to concern troll by people who are simple NIMBYs. And yes, affordability is a gigantic and growing problem in our cities, and the losers are always the less affluent. It's true that the only real way to improve affordability is to build more housing, and therefore anti-gentrification arguments are often counterproductive. And yet it's also true that gentrification happens in working class neighborhoods because we don't accept enough growth in established wealthy neighborhoods (where it really wants to go), thus pushing growth out to the working class and forcing them to deal with problems created by the rich.

Gentrification is a complicated subject that really can't be reduced to a one-liner. It's hard. Denver has been protected from it a lot thus far since Denver never really had much in the way of ghettos, but affordability becoming what it is, the middle class is now feeling what lower income classes felt decades ago.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

But I suspect the real villains are the lawyers.

Well this is obviously true. Although the only thing we lawyers in my hood are gentrifying out are the rich white DU students... driving them right into fancier apartment buildings so we can tear down their old single family hovels to build fancier single family houses we can sell to them someday when they become even fancier rich white people. It's the circle of life.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

holy cow!! That looks amazing. LOVE the video board on the BOTTOM of the sky bridge between the two structures. Kudos to the Rockies for dreaming big and not filling one of the last big open spots in Lodo with another Alexan Container Ship-like structure.

It is unfortunate that this block is not part of the LoDo historic district (at least I do not think it is). Maybe it is the pessimist in me but I predict this development will get serious value engineering.