PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Londonee

What's surprising to me is that the OP who started this digression, if i recall correctly, generally seemed to be fairly reasonable in his postings before? Am I wrong on that? Hopefully all is well with them personally as the comment came off as more unhinged than anything else.

Yeah same; I specifically looked at his past posts. Quite odd. I can see the annoyance at over-memorialization perhaps but the extent of disdain is unusual. Especially him considering the Catto statue disrespectful?? Anyway, hopefully we can get this thread back on track from the many various digressions.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Deep breaths, deep breaths. While you (and I) may think that Trump is not part of a reasonable discourse, there are plenty of people that voted for him who do (or at least did) not see it that way. If someone prioritizes certain issues above others and you understand their reasonable beliefs/opinions and look at the alternatives they were presented with, you ca see why they voted for him.

For me (and I'm assuming you), his negatives and his obvious alliances with they type of people who celebrated his victory by drawing swastikas around my neighborhood were non-starters, but some people, who are not bigoted or racist, vote on different issues and could absolutely have gone Trump. If you can't accept people for their different beliefs - so long as they are not inherently maliciously determental to other groups - then your intolerance is just as much of a stumbling block and obstacle to progress as you view their as. We're all good now? Good.

So, racism and political attacks aside. I'm glad they're sprucing up the monument. It's an underutilized space on a busy corner. I think, based on it's size, a grass field (similar to what is already there) wouldn't work. A few seats and space to walk it very appropriate for this spot. Glad it's starting to get underway.

This is an incredibly well-balanced post. Props.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Londonee

What's surprising to me is that the OP who started this digression, if i recall correctly, generally seemed to be fairly reasonable in his postings before? Am I wrong on that? Hopefully all is well with them personally as the comment came off as more unhinged than anything else.

Originally Posted by jjv007

Yeah same; I specifically looked at his past posts. Quite odd. I can see the annoyance at over-memorialization perhaps but the extent of disdain is unusual. Especially him considering the Catto statue disrespectful?? Anyway, hopefully we can get this thread back on track from the many various digressions.

Your mileage may vary, but I found his suggested parameters for historic designations to be kind of out there:

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

Historical significance is relative. If a 3 story 🞵🞵🞵🞵 rubble of only 50 years and already abandoned is set to be replaced by a trophy building set to last 100 years then the new building is already more historically significant without even being built.

Imo there should be two levels of historical registration. Those buildings which are virtually irreplaceable and those which must be replaced with something set to be more historically significant.The former list should be extremely hard to get on, ie nothing less than 200 years old.

[MikeNigh]

If you're trying to figure out if I'm insane I'll cut it short, wanting better parks could happen to any of you, you could be next. Keep someone close to watch out for the early warning signs.

[mja]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

If you're trying to figure out if I'm insane I'll cut it short, wanting better parks could happen to any of you, you could be next. Keep someone close to watch out for the early warning signs.

Yeah, no one's getting on your case about wanting better parks. After all, this is a place where people care deeply about strong urban design. There's probably near-100% agreement on this forum, for example, that the Municipal Services Building Plaza is awful, or that the proposed parklet at 22nd & Market is completely wrongheaded and downright morbid.

People are getting on your case about accusing a statue of standing disrespectfully, which, if it doesn't quite qualify as insane, is certainly a little nutty. And frankly, the fact that it's the city's first public monument to an african-american makes your complaint sound kind of racist.

People are also getting on your case about this bizarre notion you seem to have that the redesign of the pre-existing Holocaust memorial is some sort of SJW virtue-signaling overstep. I mean, you basically want to replace the holocaust memorial with some sort of quasi-Waldenesque garden with some "remembrance panels" thrown in, which completely misses the point of what a memorial is, or what art is, or what public spaces can and should do. If you just want to sit on a bench and eat a burrito during your lunch break surrounded by some green, then there are plenty of other places in the city for that, but there's only one holocaust memorial, and ideally that memorial should be moving and cause one to reflect.

Finally, people are also getting on your case about even using the term SJW. It's more than possible to be conservative and be / sound intelligent, but it's absolutely impossible to use terms like SJW or cuck and sound anything other than unhinged. You'd do well to leave that stuff behind you on 4chan or whatever. It's more than possible to intelligently discuss the valid concerns many on the right have about the politics of the left without devolving into juvenile name-calling.

[summersm343]

Aramark HQ - 2400 Market - office/retail - 10 floors

[summersm343]

218 Arch - luxury apartments/retail - 10 floors

[shadowbat2]

Hale Building update 11/30/17:
Untitled by shad obat, on Flickr

Untitled by shad obat, on Flickr

[hammersklavier]

The Hale Building restoration is beautiful!

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

I'm just saying if you want to add social justice in to every park, fine but make the park look good. People live here, this isn't a place to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 your political agendas. No one wants to call home and say they live next to some panels and huge sidewalk.

Wow, I haven't checked in on this category for a few days, its certainly taken an unusual turn-----------------

So, MN, is your concern the content of the 'parks' in question or is it just a matter of the design? You say its fine to "add social justice in every park" but your next words are "this isn't a place to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 your political agendas", so which is it? Does Dilworth have apolitical agenda? I'm not aware of one, but maybe I just don't see it.

Personally I'm fine with having a 'park' that is dedicated to trying to remember and memorialize the issues surrounding the holocaust that the nazi's perpetrated. My comment is that for a physical space with those goals I wish it had a much bolder, slap me in the face, design. I also wish it somehow brought out that, unfortunately, this was not a one time event. Whatever drives the desire to wipe a people completely from existence is still very much with us today. The concept of fake news (from both sides) and trying to rewrite recent history certainly comes from that same wellspring of ignorance, fear and terror.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

If you're trying to figure out if I'm insane I'll cut it short, wanting better parks could happen to any of you, you could be next. Keep someone close to watch out for the early warning signs.

You want to argue the architectural merits of the new Holocaust memorial, you'll find a group of people here who would love to engage in such discussions. But when you start questioning the need for a Holocaust memorial in a vulgar filled post, we've got problems (to your dismay, Philadelphia has a large Jewish population, including many Holocaust survivors and their decedents, including me). Your original post was better suited for Stormfont than Skyscraper.com. You can talk about the memorial's appearance all you want, but knowing that you don't even think such a memorial is warranted makes it impossible for me to engage with you on this topic (or really any other topic).

[MikeNigh]

Originally Posted by mja

And frankly, the fact that it's the city's first public monument to an african-american makes your complaint sound kind of racist.

You think it is racist to criticize the statue, I think it is racist to have the first statue of an African American have a goofy 🞵🞵🞵 pose. That is the difference.

Originally Posted by McBane

but knowing that you don't even think such a memorial is warranted makes it impossible for me to engage with you on this topic (or really any other topic).

I guess there is no issue then because I never said I didn't want a memorial, I said twice that I don't want it to look like it belongs on a Gettysburg field somewhere. This isn't DC, ugly "slap me in the face" designs are not something that we owe anyone. Who we owe, is the hundreds of people in the Condo building across the street who live there a nice, non overbearing, nice space.

[mja]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

You think it is racist to criticize the statue, I think it is racist to have the first statue of an African American have a goofy 🞵🞵🞵 pose. That is the difference.

You misunderstand me. I didn't say it was racist to criticize the statue. I said it "sounds racist" when your complaint is that the statue is "standing disrespectfully" -- almost as if you need even your inanimate memorialized African Americans to be docile.

If you don't want people to have the wrong idea, you might want to take a bit more care in how you present your arguments. After all, are you trying to persuade, or are you merely seeking attention or expressing your resentments?

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

I guess there is no issue then because I never said I didn't want a memorial, I said twice that I don't want it to look like it belongs on a Gettysburg field somewhere. This isn't DC, ugly "slap me in the face" designs are not something that we owe anyone. Who we owe, is the hundreds of people in the Condo building across the street who live there a nice, non overbearing, nice space.

This is what you said a couple of days ago----------
"🞵🞵🞵🞵 no 🞵🞵🞵🞵 this. Philadelphia doesn't need any more of this virtue signalling 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. We already have a huge jewish museum. 🞵🞵🞵🞵 off. It needs a decent garden here not another concrete memorial graveyard. There are a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 ton of genocides that happened, 🞵🞵🞵🞵 the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 off and have some respect for them and make one for them."
I don't see how that can be read in any other way then you saying that you don't want a memorial. That may not be what you intended to communicate, but as far as what I've heard you say I believe your message is very clear---no memorial is needed, and certainly not the one that's being built.

[Jawnadelphia]

So if I'm reading the permit notice correctly, 11 floors, 252 hotel rooms on floors 2-10, with ground floor restaurant, and rooftop restaurant. 124 ft tall.



Permit dated: 11/09/17. (located on the fenced part of lot, where the end building was demolished).

[jsbrook]

^Glad this is still moving forward, albeit on a smaller scale! I thought it had fallen through. No particular need for a tall building in this spot.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

^Glad this is still moving forward, albeit on a smaller scale! I thought it had fallen through. No particular need for a tall building in this spot.

Also, a one-floor deduction for a sitdown restaurant at Floor 11, probably with some open air tables, is a big upgrade. Philly does not have enough rooftop bars. I expect this is high enough to get some nice views.

[summersm343]

We Give Up, What’s Happening With Growing Building at 10th & Arch?



Read more here:
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/chinatown/give-whats-happening-growing-building-10th-arch

[summersm343]

61 Philly parks, libraries, and rec centers chosen for Rebuild investment

Read more here:
https://philly.curbed.com/2017/12/1/16720640/rebuild-philadelphia-sites-list

[jsbrook]

Anyone know who owns this garage or hear any rumblings of development as to garage on the 700 block of Chestnut?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/700+Ch...40c5870d8!8m2!3d39.9491476!4d-75.1525077

https://www.google.com/maps/place/700+Ch...40c5870d8!8m2!3d39.9491476!4d-75.1525077

I'm interested in a boutique condo project that will go up on this block, but this ugly garage is part of the view. I'm hoping it eventually gets demo'd and replaced with a project. There were rumblings about development on the other side of the street (8th and Chestnut, other side of Market's Disney Hole) and that abandoned project further down the block in the parking lot next to Union Trust.