Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

So, CTV News is hot on this story. They ferreted out three of the four competing sites to host the new stadium and, as I suspected, none of them are on the peninsula.

1) - Shannon Park - apparently not seriously being considered this time around because the stadium will have to be privately financed and self sustaining.
2) - Bayers Lake - have been approached by the CFL group. The site could be ready to build on by the summer of 2018. Not the first choice however because of poor access and traffic gridlock.
3) - Dartmouth Crossing - apparently the first choice of the mayor. Have also been contacted by the CFL group. Easy road access on the edge of town with lots of nearby attractions (like IKEA) that could benefit from synergy from the presence of the stadium. New hotels already being built in the area. Since the stadium would have to be self sustaining, it would likely be easy to build and lease the associated commercial/residential/retail component to the project necessary to make the stadium viable.

If you believe #3 why would an entrepreneur have to have a secret meeting with the council ?
The council didn't meet with IKEA, and have not met with Kent. The only reason the CFL group met with HRM council is to see what financial benefits they can extract from taxpayers.
As Roy Jodrey used to say - Where do this deal sugar off ?

[Keith P.]

Well, Colin, HRM is like Scrooge McDuck these days with a treasury full of gold. Why not see if they might not want to be a part of it? They have money to burn so it makes sense.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

So, CTV News is hot on this story. They ferreted out three of the four competing sites to host the new stadium and, as I suspected, none of them are on the peninsula.

1) - Shannon Park - apparently not seriously being considered this time around because the stadium will have to be privately financed and self sustaining.
2) - Bayers Lake - have been approached by the CFL group. The site could be ready to build on by the summer of 2018. Not the first choice however because of poor access and traffic gridlock.
3) - Dartmouth Crossing - apparently the first choice of the mayor. Have also been contacted by the CFL group. Easy road access on the edge of town with lots of nearby attractions (like IKEA) that could benefit from synergy from the presence of the stadium. New hotels already being built in the area. Since the stadium would have to be self sustaining, it would likely be easy to build and lease the associated commercial/residential/retail component to the project necessary to make the stadium viable.

Honestly, a peninsula site wouldn't be ideal, IMO. The demographics for a CFL team would draw at least as much from suburban and rural areas (and to a degree from other provinces), so shoveling all those people onto the peninsula via congested bridges seems unwise.

And in any case, I can't imagine anywhere on the peninsula being suitable except for the big car-dealership district way up North along Robie.

That's all presuming there's actually sufficient demand for a CFL franchise here, which, you know...

[craner]

C'mon Halifax - please make this happen!
Been waiting 40 years for this and I think it would be great for the region, the league, and the Country. Besides, a City the size of Halifax should have a 20,000 seat stadium.

I'm not sure what Colin May is on about all these private meetings shrouded in secrecy between the potential ownership group and the City. Everything seems pretty public to me, they even had an on camera meeting of City Council.

Go Halifax !

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by craner

C'mon Halifax - please make this happen!
Been waiting 40 years for this and I think it would be great for the region, the league, and the Country. Besides, a City the size of Halifax should have a 20,000 seat stadium.

I'm not sure what Colin May is on about all these private meetings shrouded in secrecy between the potential ownership group and the City. Everything seems pretty public to me, they even had an on camera meeting of City Council.

Go Halifax !

Umm... minor nit - it's not an "on camera" meeting, it's an "in camera" meeting, which means in private, behind closed doors..... Nothing to do with being open I'm afraid....

I'd like to see it move forward as well with plenty of common sense sprinkled in(too much to wish for? ) I expect there will be some public funding component and I'm ok with that, to a reasonable extent. It should be heavily weighted towards private funding IMO.

[q12]

Will Halifax join the CFL in 2020?

TSN Insiders Dave Naylor and Farhan Lalji discuss the excitement and bullish feeling surrounding the possibility of a CFL team being granted to Halifax:

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/will-halifax-join-the-cfl-in-2020~1270679

[c-way-dude]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/cfl-commissioner-expansion-halifax-1.4420090

[terrynorthend]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/sports/football/cfl/cfl-commissioner-expansion-halifax-1.4420090


"Anthony Leblanc was also at the Schooners party. He's the former president and CEO of the Arizona Coyotes... LeBlanc said the group has five potential stadium sites in Halifax and they're compiling economic impact studies to determine what the best place would be to build it. LeBlanc said he's hired an architect in Los Angeles to produce a stadium rendering that was presented to Halifax council."

I would LOVE to get a look at that rendering!

[c-way-dude]

http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/football...s/dont-rule-out-cfl-expansion-to-halifax

[Colin May]

" Of the ways Canadians can feel superior to the colossal city of Toronto, the Canadian Football League is a good one. Yes, the Argos have more Grey Cups, 16, than anybody else. Yes, they can win a 17th on Sunday night, against the Calgary Stampeders.
But if you show up in double blue, somebody will eventually rib you, gently or otherwise. Because in a season of renewal, the Argonauts couldn’t draw 14,000 fans a game, more than 5,000 fewer than any other team, and about half the numbers of the four Prairie towns. The biggest small town in the league. At least they’re in the Grey Cup, but how much can that help? ................ It should be clear, after 40 years of sliding gently into relative obscurity, that there is no magic bullet to fix the Argos. New, stable, deep-pocketed ownership didn’t do it. A right-sized stadium surrounded by millions of potential customers didn’t do it. And a Grey Cup won’t do it."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/...ake-to-attract-more-people-to-games.html

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Colin May

... It should be clear, after 40 years of sliding gently into relative obscurity, that there is no magic bullet to fix the Argos. New, stable, deep-pocketed ownership didn’t do it. A right-sized stadium surrounded by millions of potential customers didn’t do it. And a Grey Cup won’t do it."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/...ake-to-attract-more-people-to-games.html

Is it possible that there is simply too much competition for entertainment dollars in the Argos' market?

I'm not a person who would shell out for tickets to a CFL game, but I might imagine that in a place with fewer options for entertainment dollars, there's a greater chance that numbers might be there for a team?

Does anyone have any sense what might make the less-ideal teams in the CFL more financially successful than the Argos?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Is it possible that there is simply too much competition for entertainment dollars in the Argos' market?

I'm not a person who would shell out for tickets to a CFL game, but I might imagine that in a place with fewer options for entertainment dollars, there's a greater chance that numbers might be there for a team?

Does anyone have any sense what might make the less-ideal teams in the CFL more financially successful than the Argos?

It's quite possible that with Toronto having NHL, MLB, and NBA franchises, that the CFL is looked at as being second rate in comparison. Maybe if it were an NFL franchise it would fare better?

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's quite possible that with Toronto having NHL, MLB, and NBA franchises, that the CFL is looked at as being second rate in comparison. Maybe if it were an NFL franchise it would fare better?

I think previous ownership groups did a poor job marketing and with the HUGE competition in that market, they became less relevant.

I think the new ownership group, stadium with BMO Field, good management, they are slowly building it back up and get what it takes to be successful in that market.
Don't think that is relevant to whether Halifax would be successful

[cjones2451]

There seems to be a ton of sentiment of "I don't want a single cent of my tax dollars going to a stadium for rich owners" and I get it but....

1 - no owner in the CFL is getting rich being a CFL owner, unlike the NFL
2 - it would create huge tax revenue via construction jobs and workers who would work at the stadium, for the team and from the players themselves
3 - there would also be economic impact from other events, that leads to money being spent at restaurants, hotels, taxis, team merchandise, etc.

So yes, it should not be completely tax payer funded, but if there was a P3 model like Ottawa that works, it should be looked at and the LONG term funding model

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Is it possible that there is simply too much competition for entertainment dollars in the Argos' market?

I'm not a person who would shell out for tickets to a CFL game, but I might imagine that in a place with fewer options for entertainment dollars, there's a greater chance that numbers might be there for a team?

Does anyone have any sense what might make the less-ideal teams in the CFL more financially successful than the Argos?

It's not a matter of too many entertainment options in Toronto. Canadian football and the CFL are appealing products. The difference in Toronto is that it's imperative to manage all aspects of your business at a very high level or people will move on to something else.

The Argonauts need strong stable deep pocketed ownership, a football specific stadium, talented management, a proper marketing budget, and a competitive team. They've really only had all of these things this year; 2016 was a write off.

The current ownership group gives the Argonauts the luxury of taking a long term view where they can make incremental moves back on to the radar of Torontonians. The East Final was a great example of that. The stadium was full, the atmosphere fantastic, and almost all of the fans were there to support the Argonauts. They won over a lot of new fans that day. This year's Grey Cup was another 'win'.

It's a very long road back to relevance and not something that will happen because of 1-2 great games. They'll need to repeat this game after game, season after season. It took 40 years of decline to get the organization to an all time nadir. We should surely give them 20 years to claw their way back up again.

I know some here don't agree but selling out 26,000 seat BMO every game isn't enough in a metropolitan area of 6.5 million people. They could achieve that and still be nowhere in the Toronto sports landscape. This is a very very big city.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's not a matter of too many entertainment options in Toronto. Canadian football and the CFL are appealing products. The difference in Toronto is that it's imperative to manage all aspects of your business at a very high level or people will move on to something else.

The Argonauts need strong stable deep pocketed ownership, a football specific stadium, talented management, a proper marketing budget, and a competitive team. They've really only had all of these things this year; 2016 was a write off.

The current ownership group gives the Argonauts the luxury of taking a long term view where they can make incremental moves back on to the radar of Torontonians. The East Final was a great example of that. The stadium was full, the atmosphere fantastic, and almost all of the fans were there to support the Argonauts. They won over a lot of new fans that day. This year's Grey Cup was another 'win'.

It's a very long road back to relevance and not something that will happen because of 1-2 great games. They'll need to repeat this game after game, season after season. It took 40 years of decline to get the organization to an all time nadir. We should surely give them 20 years to claw their way back up again.

I know some here don't agree but selling out 26,000 seat BMO every game isn't enough in a metropolitan area of 6.5 million people. They could achieve that and still be nowhere in the Toronto sports landscape. This is a very very big city.

Selling out a 26,000 seat stadium may seem like aiming low, but at least it would put the franchise in stability and hopefully quiet the constant talk about whether or not the Argonauts can survive. I can't imagine that conversation intrigues very many new fans.

[Colin May]

I posted the wrong link.
here is the correct link : https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/...ake-to-attract-more-people-to-games.html

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

There seems to be a ton of sentiment of "I don't want a single cent of my tax dollars going to a stadium for rich owners" and I get it but....

1 - no owner in the CFL is getting rich being a CFL owner, unlike the NFL
2 - it would create huge tax revenue via construction jobs and workers who would work at the stadium, for the team and from the players themselves
3 - there would also be economic impact from other events, that leads to money being spent at restaurants, hotels, taxis, team merchandise, etc.

So yes, it should not be completely tax payer funded, but if there was a P3 model like Ottawa that works, it should be looked at and the LONG term funding model

I'm not a football fan but I think it would be a great attribute to our city, and actually wouldn't care if some tax dollars went into it as long as it was done right. To be honest, I would look at it as being an investment rather than a tax grab. Sometimes you have to lose a little bit of money at first to create something that will benefit the masses for generations.

So, even though I would probably not attend any games, I would love to see it happen for the city and for all the CFL fans in the maritimes.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I think previous ownership groups did a poor job marketing and with the HUGE competition in that market, they became less relevant.

I think the new ownership group, stadium with BMO Field, good management, they are slowly building it back up and get what it takes to be successful in that market.
Don't think that is relevant to whether Halifax would be successful

Thanks for the insight. I don't really follow the sport, but the one thing I've heard is that many part-time fans don't look at the CFL as being on the same level as the NFL. I could be wrong on that, but it did seem like a valid reason that Toronto wouldn't support it. Heck, they have the only MLB franchise in the country (for the moment) and I've seen attendance dwindle in the past if the Jays aren't having a winning season...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I'm not a football fan but I think it would be a great attribute to our city, and actually wouldn't care if some tax dollars went into it as long as it was done right. To be honest, I would look at it as being an investment rather than a tax grab. Sometimes you have to lose a little bit of money at first to create something that will benefit the masses for generations.

So, even though I would probably not attend any games, I would love to see it happen for the city and for all the CFL fans in the maritimes.

I certainly would rather that HRM spend $10 million on support for a stadium than a similar sum on the MacDonald bridge bike flyover boondoggle.