Amazon HQ2 thread

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

That's what the A/C and short sleeve shirts are for when the heat becomes unbearable. Plus, you don't have to waste so much time every year digging out of snow in the deep south or taking so much vacation when the kids' school closes.

Besides, one of the executives did mention that Amazon's looking for a place that's the opposite of the Pacific NW. While it wasn't mentioned in the RFP verbatim, if what he says has any truth to it, I would think choosing a place that's just as gloomy and even colder than Seattle would be furthest thing from the "opposite" of the Pacific NW.

EDIT: At least here in Atlanta, it doesn't get nearly as hot as people tend to imply. Detroit actually gets pretty hot too (thanks to downsloping from the Irish Hills in Michigan), with average temps in the mid-80s during the heart of Summer. It can get quite humid at times in Detroit too because of all of the trees and the lakes. Meanwhile, Atlanta sits between 1,000 and 1,500 ft. above sea level, which tempers daytime highs (typically in the upper 80s throughout much of the Summers). Where the difference comes in is the humidity. Places like Atlanta don't usually get the pushes of drier air from Canada that places in the Midwest do.

Lol you just demonstrated yet again how clueless people in the South are about the realities of Northern winters. Public schools in Chicago rarely close due to snow. The last time CPS shut down for snow was 2011. Prior to that the last time was 1999. There was a shutdown for a day in 2015 for extreme cold, but that's also the first time in a decade that school was shuttered due to cold. It's really a non issue. I maybe spend 5-10 hours a year shoveling snow and frankly I find it enjoyable.

Also, believe it or not, us Yankees are also familiar with the concept of short sleeves. On a 85+ degree humid day I'm miserable outside regardless of whether I'm wearing all linen shorts and shirts or completely naked. It's too hot period, the only place that's comfortable is in the water. Thankfully our cold winters kill off the anacondas and alligators so we can immerse ourselves in a beautiful lake or river without fear.

[Gordo]

I don't really understand the idea that Seattle is "cold" compared to Atlanta. Here are the coldest two months for each:

Seattle average high in Dec/Jan: 46/47
Seattle average low in Dec/Jan: 36/37

Atlanta average high in Dec/Jan: 54/52
Atlanta average low in Dec/Jan: 37/34

Less sunshine, sure.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Lol you just demonstrated yet again how clueless people in the South are about the realities of Northern winters. Public schools in Chicago rarely close due to snow. The last time CPS shut down for snow was 2011. Prior to that the last time was 1999. There was a shutdown for a day in 2015 for extreme cold, but that's also the first time in a decade that school was shuttered due to cold. It's really a non issue. I maybe spend 5-10 hours a year shoveling snow and frankly I find it enjoyable.

Also, believe it or not, us Yankees are also familiar with the concept of short sleeves. On a 85+ degree humid day I'm miserable outside regardless of whether I'm wearing all linen shorts and shirts or completely naked. It's too hot period, the only place that's comfortable is in the water. Thankfully our cold winters kill off the anacondas and alligators so we can immerse ourselves in a beautiful lake or river without fear.

Actually, I was born and raised in Detroit.

CPS or schools in LES belts are certainly not the norm. DPS and surrounding suburban school districts for example had a ridiculous number of school closures due to the snow and cold between 2007 and 2015 (when the recent string of unusually severe winters occurred), to the point where students in many districts had to attend school in the Summer to make up the time lost.

As far as the heat, I'm sorry that you're miserable outside when it's only 85*F. That said, it's not the case for many folks. And yeah, as I said, the Summers in that region aren't too different from what occurs down south, with the main difference being how long the high humidity sticks around.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

The exchange about heating-vs-cooling costs was getting too long and was off-topic. It belongs in another thread.

Good call. I agree. I nearly forgot that this was the Amazon thread. It's hard to lay off replying when somebody makes the claim that you're spreading a lie.

Does anybody have any detailed renders of their city's HQ2 proposal? It would be interesting to see the latest proposals.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I don't really understand the idea that Seattle is "cold" compared to Atlanta. Here are the coldest two months for each:

Seattle average high in Dec/Jan: 46/47
Seattle average low in Dec/Jan: 36/37

Atlanta average high in Dec/Jan: 54/52
Atlanta average low in Dec/Jan: 37/34

Less sunshine, sure.

I don't think anyone implied it was (at least I didn't).

That said, I will say sunshine can make otherwise cold temps feel much warmer than they are on your skin.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

They really aren't "brutal" unless you are a total pansy. Some years we don't really get winter at all. A few years ago it was less than 50 degrees like two weeks total. Besides, the crushing heat and humidity of the deep South in summer is far far worse. You can always put on another layer, you can only get so naked before you arrested.

Regardless, I don't recall "nice weather" being a requirement on the RFP. That would be particularly rich coming from a company based in the world's rain capital Seattle.

A. Maybe they want a place that's different from Seattle, not the same. At least one exec has alluded to this. They want to attract people who won't come here.

B. The world's rain capital would be at least closer to accurate on the Washington coast or in the Cascade foothills...they get multiples of the rain that Seattle itself gets.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by mhays

B. The world's rain capital would be at least closer to accurate on the Washington coast or in the Cascade foothills...they get multiples of the rain that Seattle itself gets.

Yeah Seattle isn't really that rainy in terms of annual accumulation. Dark and cloudy, yes (most of the year, summers are clear and sunny). Rain capital no.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Yeah Seattle isn't really that rainy in terms of annual accumulation. Dark and cloudy, yes (most of the year, summers are clear and sunny). Rain capital no.

It’s like London (which gets less actual rain than NYC). Often grey but usually not actually raining.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I don't really understand the idea that Seattle is "cold" compared to Atlanta. Here are the coldest two months for each:

Seattle average high in Dec/Jan: 46/47
Seattle average low in Dec/Jan: 36/37

Atlanta average high in Dec/Jan: 54/52
Atlanta average low in Dec/Jan: 37/34

Less sunshine, sure.

Seattle has much nicer summers, too.

[bnk]

Well it appears the only place you can bet on Amazon HQ2 is from Paddy Power and they will not accept bets from the USA. Anyone in the UK or EU willing to have me cut you a check, make the bet and take 10% for yourself ?

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

It’s like London (which gets less actual rain than NYC). Often grey but usually not actually raining.

In "sunny" California, if you live near the coast (which you want to do else you live in a desert with 100 degree F summer days), in summer you frequently have "grey" skies (i.e. sea fog) for much of the day in July and August. Where I live in downtown San Francisco, maybe 5 miles from the ocean (or a bit less), the fog typically rolls in around 4 or 5 PM and lasts until 11 AM or noon the next day. We usually do get a few hours of afternoon sun, but at the beach they often don't.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

Seattle has much nicer summers, too.

But maybe the only place LESS likely for Amazon to put a second HQ than the Bay Area is Seattle because then it would just be a larger first HQ. So I don't know why all the talk of Seattle in this thread.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

But maybe the only place LESS likely for Amazon to put a second HQ than the Bay Area is Seattle because then it would just be a larger first HQ. So I don't know why all the talk of Seattle in this thread.

I only brought it up because several folks were claiming that places like Chicago wouldn't stand a chance because they're "even colder" than Seattle. Seattle has gray skies much of the time and is damp, but it's not particularly cold, even when compared to many places squarely in the sunbelt.

And I'd disagree on the less likely part. I think a very possible scenario is that there is no actual HQ2 built, but rather a handful of cities have outposts of several thousand (not unlike what exists now), with the vast majority of all "HQ type" jobs being in Seattle.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I think a very possible scenario is that there is no actual HQ2 built . . . .

In which case Jeff Bezos and Amazon would retire the trophy for "much ado about nothing".

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 10023

It’s like London (which gets less actual rain than NYC). Often grey but usually not actually raining.

It's misleading to measure total rain as volume. It's a much more useful metric to look instead at the number of hours of "rain" (whether it's drizzle or downpour) in a year.

A place where the sun never shows and it's always raining very lightly should not be on paper the exact same as a place that's usually sunny but occasionally get a biblical flood from a downpour. In practice these two cases are very different, yet they're the same on paper using your metric (they both "get exactly xx millimeters of rain per year").

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's misleading to measure total rain as volume. It's a much more useful metric to look instead at the number of hours of "rain" (whether it's drizzle or downpour) in a year.

A place where the sun never shows and it's always raining very lightly should not be on paper the exact same as a place that's usually sunny but occasionally get a biblical flood from a downpour. In practice these two cases are very different, yet they're the same on paper using your metric (they both "get exactly xx millimeters of rain per year").

In terms of total precipitation, I believe Miami is the rainiest major city in the country.

Yet, aside from the threat of Hurricanes, you'll never hear a person say that Miami's weather is worse than Seattle's.

[10023]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's misleading to measure total rain as volume. It's a much more useful metric to look instead at the number of hours of "rain" (whether it's drizzle or downpour) in a year.

A place where the sun never shows and it's always raining very lightly should not be on paper the exact same as a place that's usually sunny but occasionally get a biblical flood from a downpour. In practice these two cases are very different, yet they're the same on paper using your metric (they both "get exactly xx millimeters of rain per year").

Sure. The steady drizzle is actually easier to deal with.

It rarely rains hard in London, so take an umbrella with you and you’re good. Whereas during a thunderstorm in the eastern US, you need to just change your plans and stay indoors, because if you go out in it you’ll have to throw away your shoes.

[mhays]

Nearly all Seattle rain is light enough that a jacket and baseball cap are plenty. I need to dry off maybe three times a year after walking to work.

But I'll say it again...we don't know what type/level of sameness/differentness they're looking for on weather or any other front.

As for London, I've wondered many times why Londoners are letting their faces get wet when a baseball cap would do. So what if you look like a chav and/or American. They don't seem to pull out umbrellas that much either.

[10023]

Originally Posted by mhays

Nearly all Seattle rain is light enough that a jacket and baseball cap are plenty. I need to dry off maybe three times a year after walking to work.

But I'll say it again...we don't know what type/level of sameness/differentness they're looking for on weather or any other front.

As for London, I've wondered many times why Londoners are letting their faces get wet when a baseball cap would do. So what if you look like a chav and/or American. They don't seem to pull out umbrellas that much either.

I doubt most Londoners own a baseball cap.

[skyscraperpage17]

Below is a list of the incentives some cities competing for Amazon HQ2 are offering (no, this is not a joke):

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/this-city-hall-brought-to-you-by-amazon/

Chicago - Will allow Amazon to pocket $1.32 Billion of its employees' income taxes to use however it likes

Boston - Will allow Amazon to establish a "task force" made up of city employees

Fresno - Will give Amazon special authority over how taxpayer dollars are spent