Amazon HQ2 thread

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Most college grads are mobile and are willing to relocate. If not Boston would be 10X the population it is today. No?

Boston has to compete with New York for those college grads. Someone with a Harvard MBA can go wherever he or she pleases. They aren't limited in the same sense that someone with a degree from Ohio State University may be.

The types of jobs that Amazon will have to fill at HQ2 will require that they be located in a metro area that is flooded with college grads yearly. Most of these jobs aren't going to grads of highly elite institutions. A lot of them will be above average performers, but they'll likely have a degree from a respectable state school. Can Amazon sway thousands of new graduates to move from elsewhere in the country when more than half of their friends are moving to NYC, Philadelphia, DC, Chicago, or Boston? It's a lot harder to sell Dallas to a Michigan grad than Chicago or somewhere similar. We'll see though!

I also read that Illinois (as a state) graduates the second most STEM grads per year. Someone should let Amazon know.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

There are some good schools in TX (UT Austin/Rice), but none of them are in Dallas. SMU is a respectable school, but it's small. For comparison, Chicago and Philadelphia are surrounded by top notch schools. Much of the Big Ten ranks above SMU, and those are (for the most part) flagship state schools with enrollments 4X larger. The ACC is also loaded with great schools. Both Chicago and Philadelphia are near higher caliber private schools as well (ND, UChicago, Penn, etc.). Education is not Texas' strong suit.

I'm well aware of higher education and Texas...I work for UT and have several degrees from universities from down here. You're right. Texas never placed a high emphasis on higher education which is why some universities (like U of Houston and Texas Tech) had to fight their way to first tier status but the north/ northeast is a different animal when it comes to higher education because Texas will never have the density of higher education unless it throws a lot more money at it but publicly and privately. My hometown in NY is tiny but is still crawling with expensive private liberal arts colleges and public universities in the area.

Back to Dallas, those SMU, UTD and UT-Arlington grads all can and do very well with their education and competent enough to fill the needs of Amazon or whoever. If they need an SVP with a more competitive background, Dallas is full of Harvard, Penn, Stanford, Northwestern and UChicago graduates. Not too mention, people will relocate from all over to where ever they wind up.

[10023]

If universities are universities and college graduates are perfectly mobile, then why would the presence of elite academic institutions be important to a company or to a local economy at all? Clearly the answer lies somewhere in between.

[10023]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/us/amazon-seattle-headquarters.html

[mhays]

Amazon doesn't have to go where the grads are. The grads will go where Amazon is.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by mhays

_____ doesn't have to go where the grads are. The grads will go where ______ is.

Exactly.

[Reverberation]

Originally Posted by bnk

Why in the world would Amazon choose a place with harsh Summers

That would be a stupid choice anyway the citiy already been chosen and it’s not in yours.

Because when you are in an air conditioned office all day, you have about 15 minutes before the outside heat catches up.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by mhays

Amazon doesn't have to go where the grads are. The grads will go where Amazon is.

Yes and no. Obviously some people will relocate to follow Amazon, but it's better to be in a city where you can hire a significant percentage of your work force locally. You can hire better talent if you're in a city that already has that talent.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by mhays

Are you saying you haven't read the RFP? After so much time and so many comments?

I don't believe I've commented much on this thread except to say San Francisco isn't bidding and is not seeking it and has no place for it. Hence, no, I haven't read the RFP and don't plan to. My other posts have simply been things I've come across I thought the rest of you would find interesting or general comments about the whole notion of a second headquarters or on Jeff Bezos's philosophy and politics as revealed by things he says and things he puts in his newspaper, the Washington Post. I haven't said who I think will get it because I have no idea and don't much care. And I think a lot of the posts from people boosting their own city are kind of silly. But I do recognize some participants here want to argue with anything anybody posts.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Yes and no. Obviously some people will relocate to follow Amazon, but it's better to be in a city where you can hire a significant percentage of your work force locally. You can hire better talent if you're in a city that already has that talent.

If you are dependent on luring people from other places, you may have to pay more, perhaps pay moving costs for the best people and so on. Better to have a pool of local talent that is under-utilized.

[C.]

It seemed like a vaild, civil discussions to me. If you say something, be prepared to back it up or at least be open to revisiting an initial opinion bassd on new information received.

[38 Geary]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Yes and no. Obviously some people will relocate to follow Amazon, but it's better to be in a city where you can hire a significant percentage of your work force locally. You can hire better talent if you're in a city that already has that talent.

Shh. Some folks around here don't like the T-word (talent). "Average people with degrees and training in writing code" is the preferred terminology.

You can hire better average people with degrees and training in writing code if you're in a city that already has average people with degrees and training in writing code.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

That's debatable these days. Dallas today is not the Dallas of 2000.

Just looking at the cost of office space, Dallas is around $23.00 per sq. ft, while Chicago is around $35.00 per sq. ft.

That doesn't even factor in income taxes or property taxes, as Dallas would still be the winner by a significant margin

[Barbarossa]

This is the geekiest forum thread I've ever seen.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Exactly.

But no, this is wrong.

And that’s not just about where universities are, although it certainly helps. It’s also important to be where 20-somethings want to live. A company can’t get the same talent in Tampa that it can in Austin, and that’s a fact.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by mhays

Amazon doesn't have to go where the grads are. The grads will go where Amazon is.

Yes and no.

The other side of it is that Amazon can save a ton of money if they didn't constantly have to ship in employees from other parts of the country / world. Anyone who's worked in the corporate world knows it gets quite expensive relocating an employee (just one person can easily run into the 5-figure range). Imagine spending that much money doing that for hundreds of new graduates each year and thus how much money is wasted (which could otherwise be saved).

[mhays]

Cost would be a factor. But I get the sense that Amazon would take a A+ candidate with moving expenses over a local A candidate in most cases. They want the best, not the cheapest.

The $12.00/sf difference in office space noted above might not be a significant factor. If the $35.00 rent means it's easier to attract the best and brightest, I suspect they'd go for it. That's 2% of their average salary...a pittance.

That said, maybe they're looking for a cheaper location to attract mid-career types who won't move to Seattle, with general affordability being an issue. That's the biggest question.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by mhays

Amazon doesn't have to go where the grads are. The grads will go where Amazon is.

Than how come there are something like Amazon 15,000 job openings in Seattle, why are not the "grads" moving to these jobs?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by mhays

Amazon doesn't have to go where the grads are. The grads will go where Amazon is.

I generally agree with this.

Do elite university grads generally demand job in proximity to their schooling? I would say no. Are they willing to relocate to the best companies and locations? Generally, yes.

Otherwise, how do so many elite universities thrive in comparatively godforsaken locations? That's a different stage in life, and students would pick a name brand university even if on the North Pole, if it generated elite opportunities upon graduation.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by bnk

Than how come there are something like Amazon 15,000 job openings in Seattle, why are not the "grads" moving to these jobs?

Amazon is a very fast growing company, so the job availabilities probably outstrip the hiring procedures. They don't hire just any candidate.

And technical positions, generally speaking, have a hard time being filled anywhere in the U.S. My firm has lots of high paying positions just sitting unfulfilled, because there are no qualified applicants (and this is in NYC, where you don't exactly lack for talent).

The U.S. has been at full employment more or less for the past few years, the spigot of foreign talent has thinned due to the idiot in the WH, and so many technical positions just can't be filled right now. The majority of our developer/database folks are non-Americans on work visas and it has been a nightmare just keeping talent in the country.