2017 CFL Season

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't recall the Argos ever selling out a playoff game at Skydome (excluding Grey Cup games), although they had a near sellout with just over 50,000 at the 1991 East Final vs. Winnipeg.

The Argos typically did draw relatively well for playoff games at Skydome, though... it was not uncommon for there to be over 30,000 fans at those games.

I do remember that game in 1991. 30,000 is decent but it's been a long time since the venue has been 'full' so this weekend will be great for fans.

[thurmas]

I believe the last playoff game the argos sold out was the 1983 east final vs Hamilton with over 54,000 fans at CNE stadium They did draw 50k in the 91 east final 32k in the Flutie east finals of 96 and 97 at Skydome. I believe the 2005 or 2006 east final they drew 44,000 vs Montreal and I think in 2013 they drew 35,000 against Hamilton in the east final.

[craner]

Would be great if the Argos could get to 25,000 Sunday.
Having the Riders in the game has to help.

[elly63]

Argos turn to the power of Pinball while preparing for East final
Former coach and player Clemons "reinforcing" the work of Trestman and his coaching staff.
Drew Edwards Hamilton Spectator Nov. 15, 2017

Toronto Argonauts defensive end Shawn Lemon had a front row seat to the oratory power of Michael (Pinball) Clemons on Wednesday. It is, as it turns out, not just vocal heat or emotional heat but actual physical heat.

“I was cold before practice started but once Pinball started talking, that just went away,” Lemon said. “It’s not about football but it is about football. It’s about life and you can apply it how you want to apply it. That’s why his speeches are so powerful.”

A hall-of-fame player and a Grey Cup-winning coach turned special advisor who has spent more than 25 years with the club, Clemons addressed the team during an on-field session at their Downsview practice facility at the behest of head coach Marc Trestman. With the team set to face the Saskatchewan Roughriders in Sunday’s East final at BMO Field, utilizing Clemons’ unique motivational gifts makes sense.

“The coaching staff has been brilliant here, the leadership has been amazing and gotten us to that point so you’re really just reinforcing things,” Clemons said. “The biggest thing is we want to let them know that we are with them. It is imperative that the guys know that you care.”

Clemons has also been making the rounds as one of the club’s most recognizable pitchmen as the Argonauts try to fill BMO Field for the first home playoff date of their two-year tenure at the stadium. The Argos averaged less than 14,000 fans during the regular season, a CFL low, but the marketing blitz has led to increased demand for tickets.

More than 20,000 tickets have already been sold for the game and it will be the Argos’ biggest crowd at BMO. A sellout — 26,000 — remains a possibility.

“The response from our fans and the city of Toronto has been amazing,” team president Michael Copeland. “The overwhelming majority of sales have come from Argos fans across the GTA.”

The Argonauts have also launched a new Pinball section where fans can sit with Clemons, who has eschewed the warm comfort of a suite to sit among what are likely to be the semi-frigid masses. This comes as no surprise to Lemon, who says Clemons’ ability to relate to people is what gives his motivational talks the air of authenticity they need to be effective with professional athletes who have heard a lot of speeches.

“I was leaving practice on Tuesday and Pinball is walking in with food for the coaches because he knew they were going to be here late,” Lemon said. “He carries equipment bags after the game, no cameras around. That’s just who he is.”

Clemons was with the club during the Wayne Gretzky-John Candy ownership era — some of the team’s brightest days — and has watched as the club has faded from relevance in Toronto. Relentlessly positive by nature, Clemons sees Sunday’s East final as an opportunity.

“There’s a saying, ‘People are too impatient to be smart.’ Building takes time,” he said. “This game is an important step but it doesn’t solve things, the turnaround isn’t complete. But there’s tremendous traction and momentum.”

NOTES: Toronto linebacker Marcus Ball practised Wednesday and looks to be good to go on Sunday . . . Brendon LaBatte, who was named Saskatchewan’s outstanding lineman this season, practised Wednesday after missing the East semi-final due to injury . . . Instead of returning to Regina, the Riders elected to stay in Ottawa after beating the Redblacks last Sunday and are working out at Carleton University.

See also:
Argos keeping prices reasonable as they try to draw fans to the CFL’s East final
Double Blue learned from Grey Cup experience "that there's still work to be done in this market."
Drew Edwards Hamilton Spectator Nov. 6, 2017

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by elly63

Double Blue learned from Grey Cup experience "that there's still work to be done in this market."

I read that quote a while ago and it still shocks me. Did they honestly think this was going to be fixed just by moving to a new stadium? If they did they're totally out to lunch. It took 30 years for the franchise to fade to where it is now. It will take a generation or two to build it back up again. This is a 20+ year project. It was never going to happen in 1-2 seasons.

[shreddog]

So who's going to Grey Cup??

I have my ticket and a good friend lives on the 7th floor in the condo overlooking the field - I expect to go back and forth between the two.

Would love to see Stamps and Argos .... fingers crossed!

[Coldrsx]

That condo is boss!

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

That condo is boss!

Yes it is! Already watched a CFL game and 2 Fury games this year. View is good (just right of the goal post) and the beer is cheap

[elly63]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I read that quote a while ago and it still shocks me. Did they honestly think this was going to be fixed just by moving to a new stadium? If they did they're totally out to lunch. It took 30 years for the franchise to fade to where it is now. It will take a generation or two to build it back up again. This is a 20+ year project. It was never going to happen in 1-2 seasons.

I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with that. Obviously they were naive but some of the comments were also "priming the pump" as it were. If you say positive things whether, true or not, people will tend to react that way.

If this forum was just bad news about the CFL like the 90s, then a downward spiral is inevitable.

I wouldn't say the fall was 30 years in the making, in relation to what they need to be profitable now. Everyone takes the beginning of the slide to be when the Jays came to town but they were still do well enough to fill BMO if that had been today.

The parts that give me hope is that they seem to be having some success with reasonably priced tickets and not trying to gouge the public like the Grey Cup they hosted. Also encouraging is that 5k more people than their season average of 14k think this is something worth attending.

[Coldrsx]

^washrooms, all about the washrooms!

Calgary, we are coming for you.

[cjones2451]

Wow!!!!

http://www.tsn.ca/group-makes-very-credible-pitch-for-halifax-cfl-franchise-1.917745

A group of businessmen with ties to Eastern Canada would like to make the Canadian Football League’s dream of a tenth franchise come true in Halifax.
The group made a presentation to the league’s board of governors several weeks ago in Toronto. Meetings have since taken place with various levels of government in Nova Scotia, including an in-camera session with Halifax city council this week that was attended by CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie.
“We have had discussions with the CFL’s board of governors and ongoing discussions with commissioner Ambrosie,” said Anthony Leblanc, a partner in the group and former president and CEO of the NHL’s Arizona Coyotes.
“The conversations have all been very productive. Chief among all we have discussed, we have a clear understanding of the CFL’s requirements for an expansion franchise, and this clarity is allowing us to move our project forward in a thoughtful way.”
Along with Leblanc, whose family is from New Brunswick and who began his business career in the province, the group includes Bruce Bowser, a Halifax native who is currently president of AMJ Campbell Van Lines, and Gary Drummond, a businessman from Regina who was president of hockey operations for the Coyotes.
A league spokesman confirmed it had received an expression of interest for a Halifax franchise but said that a process and timetable for awarding a team has yet to be established.
One CFL source described the group’s presentation as “very credible.”
The Halifax group is modelling its plan on that of the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, which received a conditional franchise from the CFL in 2008 and then redeveloped Frank Clair Stadium and the land surrounding it.
It’s believed the Halifax group would like to have a conditional franchise granted before the start of the 2018 CFL season, with a goal of beginning play as soon as 2020.
The potential owners want to brand the franchise to identity not just with Halifax but all of Atlantic Canada.
Halifax mayor Mike Savage has been on record as saying he would like to see his city host a CFL franchise. Sources say discussions with Savage and members of his council have been very positive over the past few months.
Central to the idea is the construction of a multi-purpose stadium, at one of several locations currently being explored – one of which is the Shannon Park, located next to the A. Murray MacKay Bridge.
Commissioner Ambrosie is expected to update the league’s board of governors on the state of the Halifax proposal when they meet the day before Grey Cup Sunday.
Besides expanding the league’s television footprint into Atlantic Canada, a Halifax-based franchise would allow the league to create two five-team divisions and avoid the number of bye weeks required with a nine-team league.
The CFL awarded a conditional franchise to a Halifax group in 1982 under the name Atlantic Schooners but the financing to build a suitable stadium never materialized.
Dating back to the mid-1980s, the CFL has staged exhibition games in Halifax. In 2010, 2011 and 2013 it played three regular-season games in Moncton, N.B.

[esquire]

^ That's great news, but the stadium is obviously still the biggest hurdle.

[q12]

#CFL confirms discussions have taken place regarding Halifax Expansion. ➡️ http://on.cfl.ca/cJ2b30gDfeg

https://twitter.com/CFL/status/931284343628103680

#CFL Twitter?

A little excited about Halifax expansion news ➡️ http://on.cfl.ca/dqah30gDhqT

https://twitter.com/CFL/status/931292498026254337

[elly63]

Gotta love the new commish, he doesn't screw around, he just mentioned this not long ago.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That's great news, but the stadium is obviously still the biggest hurdle.

It seems to be more or less the only hurdle. I would not assume a CFL team is happening until there is funding for a stadium.

I don't think it's far-fetched though, as long as somebody is spearheading the initiative and it involves the various important parties (CFL, city, private investors, maybe the province, maybe even universities, etc.). It sounds like this is what is happening now. Halifax's council had an in camera session to discuss CFL plans.

This very easily could have happened 10 years ago except for the scope creep that resulted in a $1B+ plan. They need to stick with a basic (yet hopefully expandable) stadium plan. If the CFL can't start up a new team in a city like Halifax with a few hundred million dollars and zero regional competition then, well, they're probably going to have problems growing or remaining viable as a cross-Canada league with a large number of teams. Canada is not like the US where there are dozens of large cities desperate to fund sports teams.

There's also a 7,000 temporary stadium under construction in Halifax for soccer and the SMU stadium which has around 4,000 permanent seats but has been temporarily expanded to 11,000. These are facilities that are being used by groups other than the CFL who could also help to make a CFL-ready stadium viable. Part of the strategy of this CFL group should be to try to sell the stadium as a useful piece of public infrastructure, not a single-use building for a private sports team.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

There's also a 7,000 temporary stadium under construction in Halifax for soccer and the SMU stadium which has around 4,000 permanent seats but has been temporarily expanded to 11,000. These are facilities that are being used by groups other than the CFL who could also help to make a CFL-ready stadium viable. Part of the strategy of this CFL group should be to try to sell the stadium as a useful piece of public infrastructure, not a single-use building for a private sports team.

I've said it before on here but the success of the potential CPL franchise and the popup stadium on Wanderer Grounds will be the item that pushes forward a potential stadium large enough for a CFL team. If that stadium and team does well there'll be more support for a larger build elsewhere.

Again, i'm highly suspicious of a stadium going forward without it being supported by taxpayers, and if it's viewed as just a stadium for a CFL franchise it'll be faced with backlash as you've said. We'll see how the NS government handles this moving forward.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I've said it before on here but the success of the potential CPL franchise and the popup stadium on Wanderer Grounds will be the item that pushes forward a potential stadium large enough for a CFL team. If that stadium and team does well there'll be more support for a larger build elsewhere.

Don't see that connection at all

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

Don't see that connection at all

It's pretty simple:

• Currently, a large-scale stadium in Halifax is a difficult sell: There's nothing to base the business-case on outside of a small university stadium. Nobody knows what the market is like and how it will react to an outdoor stadium for a professional team. We've had some CFL preseason games but they were one-offs and are nearing a decade in the past.
• So, build a small stadium for a CPL team and see how it does. If it does well it'll warm people up to the idea of a larger stadium, and provide a better business case for a larger stadium. This is already occurring.
• Once the CPL team and stadium do well, it'll be an easier sell on both public and government to get traction for a larger stadium.

If prospective CFL owners come out of the dark and say "Hey! We want a big 20-25K stadium and we want you to pay for some of it!" the answer is going to be a pretty loud no. If there's a history of a stadium in the city doing well (see: CPL/Wanderer Grounds) it's possible that public reaction will be a bit more positive. Rather than jumping into the pool for a big stadium it's easier if you do baby steps instead. Have proof that a 7-10K stadium can work and the 20K stadium will be an easier jump mentally for most, both in the public and in government circles.

Say the CPL team plays at Wanderer Grounds and the reception is mild - crowds aren't that great, the bar doesn't do too well, fans are messing up the adjacent urban area: how easy do you think it would be for a CFL team to step in and ask for an even bigger stadium, urban or otherwise? And for government funding on top?

Here's a quote from the Halifax forum:

Originally Posted by Colin May

Waye Mason has posted on twitter : " Same as always - needs to be business / private sector lead - need to see a season ticket drive to prove the support - cannot be a municipal lead project but some partnerships possible. No capacity to spend 250 mil on a stadium. "

And that's the thing. If the CPL team can warm people up to the idea of professional, outdoor sports team, a CFL team is an easier sell to them.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JHikka

And that's the thing. If the CPL team can warm people up to the idea of professional, outdoor sports team, a CFL team is an easier sell to them.

Maybe. This is a pretty vague argument that seems to be based around public perception though. Who's to say that the prospect of funding a CFL stadium in Halifax isn't already popular with the public there? I don't actually know. I know it's not popular with Waye Mason or Colin May (it's hard to find anything that is...). So that gives us an upper bound of support around 0.999995.

Is anybody actually proposing that the municipality alone spend $250M on a stadium? That sounds like a straw man. Any plan I've ever heard of has been some kind of partnership, and part of the point of these announcements is that there is also a private group involved in the discussions.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I've said it before on here but the success of the potential CPL franchise and the popup stadium on Wanderer Grounds will be the item that pushes forward a potential stadium large enough for a CFL team. If that stadium and team does well there'll be more support for a larger build elsewhere.

Again, i'm highly suspicious of a stadium going forward without it being supported by taxpayers, and if it's viewed as just a stadium for a CFL franchise it'll be faced with backlash as you've said. We'll see how the NS government handles this moving forward.

IT's pretty much a given the stadium will be entirely or almost entirely financed by the public sector. Maybe these owners will kick in a little money for locker rooms/training facilities or a small ticket tax but that's about it. What little profits are derived from a CFL team are really not worth any significant money from potential investors. Like Ottawa private money would be concentrated on the surrounding retail and residential developments. Unless Halifax and Nova Scotia are willing to invest $100+ million in this project it will not move forward imo.