River District (East Fraserlands) Updates

[NewfBC]

I dropped into the wine store last night.. very nice. HUGE! Very empty though.. 2 staff and maybe 3 people in the store.

Ron.

[whatnext]

It's hard to think of a less appealing location for this rental, at the NW corner of Boundary and Marine. And what happened to encouraging development near transit? Isn't there like a grand total of one bus route that services the River District?

[IMG]River District Rental by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]

[osirisboy]

I think they can still encourage development near transit as well as developments like this

[casper]

I thought the River District was to have a future street car line running through it sometime in the very distant future.

[rickvug]

Originally Posted by casper

I thought the River District was to have a future street car line running through it sometime in the very distant future.

All signs point to that still being the plan, although you don't hear much about it given the unknown far future time period. It is more of an envisioned route than anything else.

In Arbutus Greenway planning I've seen cursory mentions of a future connection to a continuous Fraser River Greenway. I even recall planning for that greenway being on the work plan after the Arbutus plan is finalized. I did a quick search and couldn't find the exact mention but I remember being excited to see the mention. Like many Metro Vancouver transit projects, look to the past for an idea of what the route and stops might be: http://maps.nicholsonroad.com/bcer. Compare the Arbutus Greenway section for yourself: http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/arbut...ions-vancouver. Mostly the same with stops shifted here or there. I'd expect something similar for Fraser River extension of the Arbutus Line. It would be an extremely logical connection between various transit lines, which is probably why the Westminster-Eburn line was already running way back in 1909.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by rickvug

In Arbutus Greenway planning I've seen cursory mentions of a future connection to a continuous Fraser River Greenway. I even recall planning for that greenway being on the work plan after the Arbutus plan is finalized. I did a quick search and couldn't find the exact mention but I remember being excited to see the mention... It would be an extremely logical connection between various transit lines, which is probably why the Westminster-Eburn line was already running way back in 1909.

Problem is that CP was only willing to sell the ROW up to Milton Street. I think the City's counting on the Arbutus-downtown tram route to do well; once it does, that's public support and further pressure on CP to sell other segments all the way to New West.

[rickvug]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Problem is that CP was only willing to sell the ROW up to Milton Street. I think the City's counting on the Arbutus-downtown tram route to do well; once it does, that's public support and further pressure on CP to sell other segments all the way to New West.

You might be right, assuming the city is actually that strategic in their thinking. On the other hand, there's a good chance they simply don't have the budget and resources to plan for something so low on the priority list.

The other big issue is land use. The route is directly along Vancouver's biggest tract of industrial land that they want to protect. A passenger rail route, especially along the waterfront, would greatly increase pressures to convert to residential and office uses. This may be inevitable at some point but it makes sense to hold on to the industrial land for as long as possible.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

well the Interurban used to go all the way past River District, my guess the plan is to recreate that sometime in the far, far, far future. the Downtown Line would probably happen first.

CP still uses the Marpole Spur fairly frequently, compared to the Arbutus Spur which they had stopped using in 2001.

[rickety_cricket]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

with 4 new traffic lights. 2 of those should have been cul-de-sacs and only added in 2 new traffic lights. because 2 of them lead about 500m to another intersecting which is intersection #3 on Marine Way. talk about good planning.

I really don't think you're comprehending the ultimate size of this neighbourhood or the residents at full build out who will be using the roads. You should also consider other factors like emergency response routes and planning, future bus routes, civil infrastructure, and the access it takes to meet the needs of retailers (customer traffic and deliveries) in all master plan communities

Lots of planning and studies goes into engineering roads, easy to scoff at if you don't know what it all entails

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rickvug

You might be right, assuming the city is actually that strategic in their thinking. On the other hand, there's a good chance they simply don't have the budget and resources to plan for something so low on the priority list.

The other big issue is land use. The route is directly along Vancouver's biggest tract of industrial land that they want to protect. A passenger rail route, especially along the waterfront, would greatly increase pressures to convert to residential and office uses. This may be inevitable at some point but it makes sense to hold on to the industrial land for as long as possible.

I always wonder why our city never has the budget to do anything. Other cities can, why can't Vancouver? Vancouver, unlike many other cities, do not have a huge network of freeways or transportation infrastructure to maintain, as much of the costs are also shared with other municipalities. They get developers to chip in so many city-owned properties, including public art pieces, community centres, social housing, etc. Last but not least, they have so many multi-million dollar house and condo property taxes that owners have to pay, and at the same time enjoy the fact that having the business centre of this region located in downtown Vancouver further contributes to the coffers of the City. Also, unlike other Canadian cities, CoV does not need huge budgets for snow-clearing, etc. Last but not least, the geography of this region helps to attract so many tourists visiting and contributing to spending in this city, more so than the surrounding municipalities. So where do all the money go to? Only thing I see is the mass installation of bike lanes which is only sub-par at best. Is the City attempting to save up for that 300mil to demolish the viaducts, which they claim they don't even have?

Also, if providing a good transportation system to a new area where a huge population will move in isn't on the priority list, I wonder what is? Cash-grabbing?

[Feathered Friend]

Design A




Design B






I went all the way down to Vancouver's forgotten South East Neighbourhood to stop by the East Fraser Land ODP review. Despite it's isolation from mass transit, this neighbourhood is really a vibrant little community, and has a very unique feel to it. I suggest anyone wanting a Romer's Burger and a unique walk to head down to a community that will soon see 18k people... So, more populated than Dunbar? 😉

The community is invested too, with about 150 people attending the open house. Two designs were presented, with both providing the same density. Design B features a larger, more lawn-like central park, while also providing a laneway spine experience that is set further back from the river. Design A concentrates on a shoreline experience, a urban waterway, and a spine that bridges the former features with anchors in the job space and high street. What I overheard indicates that most attendees were split between the two designs. However, from reading the UDP minutes, it seems the panel preferred design A. I think they made the right call in siding with Design A, as the longer "room like" waterfront parks feels less private in this design. Also, I think the large central area in Design B breaks up the neighbourhood, and would be underused, not to mention the connections generally feel weaker. One important thing to note is that the eastern properties bordering Burnaby are envisioned as a mix of residential and light industrial, which is something I would like to see more of in Vancouver, rather than removing industrial land and the jobs it provides.

Agree or disagree, well feel free to weigh in here:
https://www.talkvancouver.com/R.aspx...&as=kL3Cr7Pk95

One last tidbit. Speaking to several people, I've heard there is a very real appetite in both the COV and Translink to purchase the rest of the rail corridor that connects to the Arbutus Line. The timeline is sort of hazy, but I heard this could happen in a 10 to 20 year time frame.

[Vin]

Glad to see they added even more density on the eastern part of the development away from the central commercial zone. The original Master Plan only called for short townhomes, at least that's what it was like years ago when I worked on the East Fraserlands.

[LeftCoaster]

I really like the massing of both, very Olympic Village with a few towers thrown in.

My preference was B as it had a bit more bulk facing the river and therefore more eyes on the park & better views, but A has it's merits as well.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Agree or disagree, well feel free to weigh in here:
https://www.talkvancouver.com/R.aspx...&as=kL3Cr7Pk95

"The study you are responding to is now closed. Thank you for your interest."

[Klazu]

The placement some of those eastern building have makes me worries about there ever going to be a Boundary Bridge. Also, there will be so many cars introduced on streets by this area. Everyone with a sense that will consider moving there, will have to own a car.

[Pinion]

There won't be another bridge near the CoV borders unless the political climate changes dramatically.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Pinion

There won't be another bridge near the CoV borders unless the political climate changes dramatically.

Right but that's theoretically possible every four years

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Klazu

The placement some of those eastern building have makes me worries about there ever going to be a Boundary Bridge. Also, there will be so many cars introduced on streets by this area. Everyone with a sense that will consider moving there, will have to own a car.

Was thinking the exact same thing. Afraid the bridge is a goner now.
Yet another opportunity lost to alleviate ever growing congestion (seemingly by the day) down the road on Knight Street. The span between Vancouver and Richmond would have been cheaper as the distance between the two in that point in the river is ridiculously small and the road network (at least on the Vancouver side) is ready to go. Even on the Richmond side the distance to the highway is minimal.

Oh well...

[SpongeG]

i would like to have seen a bridge connection that lines up with boundary road.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i would like to have seen a bridge connection that lines up with boundary road.

Boundary would make a lot of sense. It wouldn't have to be super-high over that portion of the Fraser, making it significantly cheaper. Maybe there's even a tunnel option that would work.