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  #5641  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2017, 2:04 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Maybe I misunderstood your post. Your rant about the "mushy middle ground" sounded like you were against compromise. i.e. mushy middle ground = compromise

So is your point that I should be saying "damn all the cyclists and pedestrians because I want to drive my car everywhere" - if I actually want there to be a more balanced environment - in order to counter the "ban all cars" side of things? I guess I'm confused.
Your post made it seem like i and others should alter our opinions to better conform to the mainstream/status quo since the mainstream doesn't like any idea of curtailing car usage and tends to react negatively toward it. It suggested that the fact that people do things in a particular way (either by preference or custom) means they're unable to change and that arguing for change is somehow disrespectful or inconsiderate to them. This of course would be ridiculous.

I actually think I misunderstood your stance and had the impression that you understand and accept that such change is desirable but were simply too afraid of conflict and backlash to say so, and that you felt others should be as well. Looking back, I should have realized it was more a case of you being aligned with the mainstream/status quo and not actually believing that change is desirable since you used several common pro status-quo arguments.

For example, suggesting that I obviously must accept the necessity of cars since I have one myself. This is a tautological argument which basically justifies things being how they are because they are how they are, while arguing that it's impractical to change things because of this. In reality, when an individual argues for change in a larger system such as our societal transportation system, it may not be practical for that individual to change on their own as long as they exist within the context of that system, but that says nothing about the feasibility of system-wide change. Most of the impracticality citied by those using this common argument relate to the impracticality of change for an individual acting at odds with the larger system.

Numerous other pro status-quo argument tactics exist such as suggesting that change is "too extreme" or "too disruptive" or "impractical" or "too difficult" or "not a priority" and the list goes on and on. Most of these tend to be either irrelevant since they don't actually address the merits of the proposed change or they focus disproportionately on the drawbacks or costs of change while ignoring or downplaying those of the current situation. But it can be easy to miss some of these if they're slipped into larger, more complex arguments.
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  #5642  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2017, 5:11 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Your post made it seem like i and others should alter our opinions to better conform to the mainstream/status quo since the mainstream doesn't like any idea of curtailing car usage and tends to react negatively toward it. It suggested that the fact that people do things in a particular way (either by preference or custom) means they're unable to change and that arguing for change is somehow disrespectful or inconsiderate to them. This of course would be ridiculous.

I actually think I misunderstood your stance and had the impression that you understand and accept that such change is desirable but were simply too afraid of conflict and backlash to say so, and that you felt others should be as well. Looking back, I should have realized it was more a case of you being aligned with the mainstream/status quo and not actually believing that change is desirable since you used several common pro status-quo arguments.

For example, suggesting that I obviously must accept the necessity of cars since I have one myself. This is a tautological argument which basically justifies things being how they are because they are how they are, while arguing that it's impractical to change things because of this. In reality, when an individual argues for change in a larger system such as our societal transportation system, it may not be practical for that individual to change on their own as long as they exist within the context of that system, but that says nothing about the feasibility of system-wide change. Most of the impracticality citied by those using this common argument relate to the impracticality of change for an individual acting at odds with the larger system.

Numerous other pro status-quo argument tactics exist such as suggesting that change is "too extreme" or "too disruptive" or "impractical" or "too difficult" or "not a priority" and the list goes on and on. Most of these tend to be either irrelevant since they don't actually address the merits of the proposed change or they focus disproportionately on the drawbacks or costs of change while ignoring or downplaying those of the current situation. But it can be easy to miss some of these if they're slipped into larger, more complex arguments.
Look, enough of the bullcrap.

Terrynorthend is right - this "discussion" has diluted the Nova Centre thread enough, and I'm going to end my part in it right now. It all started as a discussion over the Argyle/Grafton street makeover (which doesn't have a thread of its own) and went out in left field somewhere after that.

You're being way too complicated over trying to guess my intent. I'll end it where I started with my quote about how I feel about the streetscaping:

Quote:
IMHO, where the downtown is headed is just fine.

- Residential development for those who want/can afford it. Benefit is that it brings support to downtown-based retailers and restaurants - everybody benefits from that.
- Less surface parking, which means better use of land supplies for residential and business alike.
- More public parking located within new buildings - people who choose to bring their cars downtown can still park them, they just have to pay to do so.
- A few streets converted to pedestrian-centric, giving people a place to enjoy festivals, patios, etc. and not worry about getting run over by a car or bus.

Basically it is becoming everything for everybody. You can get there by transit if you wish, you can bike there if you wish, you can take your car for speed, convenience, shelter from bad weather, mobility issues, etc.
It is what it is. If you consider my views too mainstream for your liking, I'm OK with that. They are my views and I don't depend on your judgment to decide how I feel about things.

Have a nice day.
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  #5643  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2017, 11:10 PM
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A lot of the pavers have now gone in on the new plaza on the former Grafton St.

Also Neptune's renovations are almost complete and they are working to convert their balcony over sackville to a glassed in expansion to their upper lever.

20171114_154037 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171114_154052 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171114_154100 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171114_154136 by Jonovision23, on Flickr
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  #5644  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 9:48 PM
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  #5645  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2017, 8:53 PM
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Some textured concret going in on off of Prince St and the big BMO sign is up on the front of the tower.

20171122_152710 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171127_130900_HDR by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171130_165830 by Jonovision23, on Flickr
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  #5646  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2017, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
Some textured concret going in on off of Prince St and the big BMO sign is up on the front of the tower.

20171122_152710 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171127_130900_HDR by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171130_165830 by Jonovision23, on Flickr
Having signs on the upper levels of the building completely kills the look. Tacky and way out of proportion. Extremely disappointing.
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  #5647  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2017, 3:06 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by steve61 View Post
Having signs on the upper levels of the building completely kills the look. Tacky and way out of proportion. Extremely disappointing.
Tacky yet somehow fitting. Wondering how long it will be before the name is changed from the Nova Centre to the BMO Centre...
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  #5648  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2017, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Tacky yet somehow fitting. Wondering how long it will be before the name is changed from the Nova Centre to the BMO Centre...
I actually like the signs up better than when it was bare - looks really nice at night.
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  #5649  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2017, 7:32 PM
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I actually think the size of the lettering visually changes the scale of the building. Before the signage the building looked massive and bulky and quite out of scale to buildings currently around it. The signage makes the building look a little smaller, a better mid sized building development.

That's just what I see though.
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  #5650  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2017, 8:52 PM
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I actually like the way it looks as well
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  #5651  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 1:28 PM
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The B M O looks off-centre, I'm guessing the BM red and white round logo is going to be place to the right of the letters. I've never seen B M O placed anywhere without the logo beside it.
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  #5652  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 10:18 PM
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I wanted to hate the logo but it does to something to centre the geometry of North half of the building and does make the scale of the whole development work better. Who knew?!
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  #5653  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by connect2source View Post
The B M O looks off-centre, I'm guessing the BM red and white round logo is going to be place to the right of the letters. I've never seen B M O placed anywhere without the logo beside it.
They put the logo to the right as well. It would look ridiculous without it
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  #5654  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 2:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
I wanted to hate the logo but it does to something to centre the geometry of North half of the building and does make the scale of the whole development work better. Who knew?!
I'm assuming this won't be the only logo on the building as more tenants are announced. My fear is that the building will be littered with signage once it gets filled.
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  #5655  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:27 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Welcome to The Nova Centre "Rogers/BMO/To-be-announced Square"™!



I really should reserve judgement until it's finished and all the branding is brightly lit at night. Still not comfortable with branding a former city street, I guess...
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  #5656  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by steve61 View Post
I'm assuming this won't be the only logo on the building as more tenants are announced. My fear is that the building will be littered with signage once it gets filled.
None of the other towers downtown have more than one brand (TD, CIBC, RBC, 1801 Hollis, BDC, etc.). I suspect that one of the conditions a company requires for putting up the big bucks to have their name on a tower is that they get exclusive rights.

Though in this case I imagine the hotel tower will have some sort of signage, though it may only be along the podium level (Rank got the windows along the Prince Street side removed from the development to make room for a signage band).
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  #5657  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 3:04 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by IanWatson View Post
None of the other towers downtown have more than one brand (TD, CIBC, RBC, 1801 Hollis, BDC, etc.). I suspect that one of the conditions a company requires for putting up the big bucks to have their name on a tower is that they get exclusive rights.

Though in this case I imagine the hotel tower will have some sort of signage, though it may only be along the podium level (Rank got the windows along the Prince Street side removed from the development to make room for a signage band).
On a side note, I noticed a few weeks ago some guys removing the BMO sign from the top of the building on George. It is currently unbranded I believe. Has BMO abandoned that address completely?
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  #5658  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
On a side note, I noticed a few weeks ago some guys removing the BMO sign from the top of the building on George. It is currently unbranded I believe. Has BMO abandoned that address completely?
Yes. My contact there said they were moving last Friday and over the weekend.
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  #5659  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by IanWatson View Post
None of the other towers downtown have more than one brand (TD, CIBC, RBC, 1801 Hollis, BDC, etc.). I suspect that one of the conditions a company requires for putting up the big bucks to have their name on a tower is that they get exclusive rights.

Though in this case I imagine the hotel tower will have some sort of signage, though it may only be along the podium level (Rank got the windows along the Prince Street side removed from the development to make room for a signage band).
True about the other office buildings but this is essentially four towers and if they decide to slap logos on each it could get really messy especially when placed on the higher floors.

Hopefully I'm wrong. When the checkerboard glazing first started going up I thought it was terrible but once finished I thought it looked amazing.
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  #5660  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 4:59 AM
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Originally Posted by steve61 View Post
True about the other office buildings but this is essentially four towers and if they decide to slap logos on each it could get really messy especially when placed on the higher floors.

Hopefully I'm wrong. When the checkerboard glazing first started going up I thought it was terrible but once finished I thought it looked amazing.
If I'm not mistaken, Jono's 2nd pic reveals some anchoring hardware for signage on the upper floors on the Prince street side, just wrapped around from that BMO sign.

Last edited by hoser111; Dec 7, 2017 at 5:25 AM. Reason: had something to add...
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