What keeps Atlanta from reaching LA, Chicago, or NYC levels?

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

at this point atlanta has too much competition. 100 years ago, we only had a handful of destination big cities. these days, we have 20 plus metros over 3 million, each experiencing positive population growth. we will see a common ascension among all of the the big metros but the days of mass immigration are over. now were just shuffling deck chairs around.

Let's be honest...it's not immigration that is driving the growth of cities' urban cores these days.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

The media, the federal / state government, segregationists, retailers, etc.

They're administrative only. And they set zoning rules.

Why do you think a retailer cares about city limits, other than labor laws and so on, if they're different?

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

at this point atlanta has too much competition. 100 years ago, we only had a handful of destination big cities. these days, we have 20 plus metros over 3 million, each experiencing positive population growth. we will see a common ascension among all of the the big metros but the days of mass immigration are over. now were just shuffling deck chairs around.

Shuffling deck chairs? What is it, the Titanic? So what, is the country about to implode?

I think you mean something different.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by tech12

Who cares about arbitrary city-limits?

As for metros, SF's true metro area (AKA the nine-county SF Bay Area, which is divided into five different MSAs...lol good job census ) is a lot loser to the CSA numbers (which encompasses seven MSAs) than it is to the MSA numbers. MSA methodology simply doesn't play well with the development patterns of geographically constrained and multi-nodal regions, and in the case of SF gives an inaccurate result that doesn't reflect the reality of how life works on the ground. The CSA number isn't perfect though, and includes a little too much to be used as a synonym for "the Bay Area" (San Joaquin, San Benito, and Santa Cruz counties aren't part of the bay area by most people's definition...yet, at least).

Annoying how this conversation has to be repeated in every other thread where metro areas are mentioned.

It used to be much worse. At least most people are wise enough to take municipal population numbers as a grain of salt and nothing more. You don't see people blinded by San Jose's population over San Francisco nearly as much, though it did happen recently here.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

No American city will catch NYC in population during any of our lifetimes without some type of stunt (annexation) or catastrophe. But some of us may see LA overtake New York as the largest metropolitan area.

LA might already be there because of illegal immigrants and adjacent areas not technically considered metro LA, not just the IE but Oxnard, Thousand Oaks and Ventura.

Brooklyn could declare independence and maybe Staten Island comes along for the ride, feeling neglected by the northern boroughs. Take them away and that's over a third of NYC's population.

If it were limited to Manhattan and The Bronx, NYC would have been eclipsed by Chicago for some time and today by LA. So NYC itself is guilty of this so called stunt. The only realistic contender that could pass it is Houston if it annexed it's ETJ [territorial rights] and grew like crazy for some time.

[MolsonExport]

^thanks for the revisionist history. Your point being....?

Jacksonville?

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^thanks for the revisionist history. Your point being....?

Jacksonville?

My point being that New York annexed like crazy to retain its status as the largest city in the country. It arguably was the first to pull that so-called stunt, so I wouldn't feel any sympathy if it loses its status because some other city did the same.

It includes another would-be-city and a portion that's so far away, it might as well be in New Jersey, not even connected to the CBD by land or bridge. Just padding the numbers, like most cities in the Sun Belt.

And I still stand by my Jacksonville commentary...personal preference, It is what it is.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I understand that Atlanta won't be everyone's cup of tea (or it truly isn't relevant to some, such as folks who live outside the US), but Atlanta does seems to get a disproportionate amount of hate for the silliest reasons.

Yeah, Atlanta has bad traffic. Big fucking deal. Chicago, DC, Los Angeles, etc. all have even worse traffic, yet people don't use it to define their cities and bash them for it. Yeah, Atlanta has sprawl. Again, big fucking deal. Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, etc. have just as much or even worse sprawl, yet people don't use it to define their cities and bash them for it.

The main ones that seem to go out of their way to bash it fall into two categories:

1. They're from the big cities in the NE (Boston, NYC, DC, etc.).

2. They're from Rust Belt cities / states.

As far as those who fall into group #2, I can only figure it's jealousy. Atlanta works ("work" meaning economically vibrant and growing) while the big cities in their state (for the most part) do not. Hell, half of the natives from the big city in North One's state are living in Atlanta right now, so it must be doing something right.

it's not hate, it's just criticism, with some truth behind it... even though things are changing. opinions are always slow to catch up even when the trajectory is moving.

i actually think the biggest possibilities for change are disillusioned suburban kids like me who hated their experiences growing up in the bubble surrounding the city and have become aware of how much of a blank slate it is. this is obv the case in lots of cites, but the suburbs are that much worse here from an accessibility standpoint that i think it's going to continue to drive some serious changes intown, along with all the job movement back to the core. atl likes to hop on development trends with the best of them... and the complete lack of density in a lot of places ITP is pure opportunity, considering the fact we do have a heavy rail system in place already.

i guess that's one of the main things that keeps me around even when i'd love to settle down in a place that's already established itself. there's plenty of cool shit going on here, and real estate is still somewhat affordable even though the place is booming.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by mhays

They're administrative only. And they set zoning rules.

Why do you think a retailer cares about city limits, other than labor laws and so on, if they're different?

Taxes, insurance, etc.

As I said earlier, I get the overall point and agree with it, but to say no one cares about city boundaries is also not true.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by cabasse

it's not hate, it's just criticism, with some truth behind it... even though things are changing. opinions are always slow to catch up even when the trajectory is moving.

i actually think the biggest possibilities for change are disillusioned suburban kids like me who hated their experiences growing up in the bubble surrounding the city and have become aware of how much of a blank slate it is. this is obv the case in lots of cites, but the suburbs are that much worse here from an accessibility standpoint that i think it's going to continue to drive some serious changes intown, along with all the job movement back to the core. atl likes to hop on development trends with the best of them... and the complete lack of density in a lot of places ITP is pure opportunity, considering the fact we do have a heavy rail system in place already.

i guess that's one of the main things that keeps me around even when i'd love to settle down in a place that's already established itself. there's plenty of cool shit going on here, and real estate is still somewhat affordable even though the place is booming.

Criticism is healthy. Unfair criticism (which is what some give) is not, and that think it boils down to simple irrational hatred.

[the urban politician]

All Chicago needs to do is merge with Cook County and we are back to being #2 again, fools

But probably will never happen

[The North One]

lol what is this? How old are you skyscraperpage17?

Yes, everyone is so jealous of Atlanta, that's why it's impossible for you to have a basic discussion of facts without getting insecure and convincing yourself of a false narrative. You're derailing the thread and getting defensive for no reason.

Yes, I'm just so jealous of those detached homes and office parks and mega-highways, oh my god why can't I be around that! If only! Too bad I can't apply for citizenship in the country of Atlanta! oh wait...

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

All Chicago needs to do is merge with Cook County and we are back to being #2 again, fools

But probably will never happen

I would like to see these city limits come to pass:

1. Los Angeles city merges with LA County, becomes largest US city - 10 Million ppl
2. New York - 8.5 million
3. Cook County merges with Chicago - 5 million
4. Harris County merges with Houston - 4 million
5. Ft Worth merges with Tarrant county - 1.8 million, becomes prime city in DFW metroplex
6. Detroit merges with Wayne County, becomes major US city again instantly - 1.7 million
7. Philly 1.6 million
8. Phoenix 1.5 million
9. San Antonio 1.5 million
10. San Diego 1.4 million
11. Dallas 1.3 million
...
San Jose
SF 800,000
DC 700,000
Portland 700,000
...
Atlanta 500,000 (hehe)
Miami 350,000

[mhays]

I don't get why people care about that. Is it so reporters who don't know anything about cities will use these numbers to rank cities for other people who don't know anything about cities?

The real effects can be significant. Suburbanites becoming mayor? Bond issue elections decided by people with less allegiance for the urban core? It's not all bad...my city could use a move to the left-center on some issues.

[SteveD]

Atlanta's city limits enclose a remarkably small area, which is one of the reasons the city has such a small component of the metro population. Everyone knows how fractured and balkanized the regional government is. It's meaningless to compare city limit population. The five "core" counties, Cobb, DeKalb, Fulton, Gwinnett and Clayton, have nearly 4 million people. Georgia also has very small counties, more counties than any state except Texas.

[Labtec]

Atlanta just needs to densify and population growth. Right now, you see numerous celebrities in Atlanta every day all across the city because of all the movie / TV filming here. Numerous black athletes live in Atlanta during their off-season. When I went to Korea, many young Koreans know Atlanta mainly because of all the hip-hop coming from here. It's also very attractive for corporations as many companies are moving their headquarters here. You have high-level colleges in the city as well. It's a mixture of a lot of things.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I would like to see these city limits come to pass:

1. Los Angeles city merges with LA County, becomes largest US city - 10 Million ppl
2. New York - 8.5 million
3. Cook County merges with Chicago - 5 million
4. Harris County merges with Houston - 4 million
5. Ft Worth merges with Tarrant county - 1.8 million, becomes prime city in DFW metroplex
6. Detroit merges with Wayne County, becomes major US city again instantly - 1.7 million
7. Philly 1.6 million
8. Phoenix 1.5 million
9. San Antonio 1.5 million
10. San Diego 1.4 million
11. Dallas 1.3 million
...
San Jose
SF 800,000
DC 700,000
Portland 700,000
...
Atlanta 500,000 (hehe)
Miami 350,000

I know you're joking but there is not and will not be one single primary city in DFW anymore, not even Dallas at this point. Fort Worth could grow bigger than Houston and it'd still be but one part of DFW.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by The North One

Yes, I'm just so jealous of those detached homes and office parks and mega-highways, oh my god why can't I be around that! If only! Too bad I can't apply for citizenship in the country of Atlanta! oh wait...

You post crap like this, and yet in the same breath *claim* Atlanta has no relevance to you.

Give me a break! If a city truly has no relevance to you, you wouldn't troll said city's threads with such BS.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

You post crap like this, and yet in the same breath *claim* Atlanta has no relevance to you.

Give me a break! If a city truly has no relevance to you, you wouldn't troll said city's threads with such BS.

Every comment you make speaks volumes about your level of maturity. This is the general city discussion I'll post in here all I want. I only responded because the story you generated was so laughable and self-serving, if anybody is trolling it's you.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by The North One

This is the general city discussion I'll post in here all I want.

You're free to post all you want, just as I'm free to call your posts as I see them.

It's just a shame that you have so much irrational hatred for a city that you go out of your way to bash it on an internet forum.

In any event, it's probably best to follow my own advice and just ignore you from here on out. It's clear that you have some type of chip on your shoulder and can't be reasoned with (thus, it's a waste or time and energy even responding).