[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Keith does bring a dose of realism and pragmatism to the forum, but in this particular case he is dead wrong.........

I agree with MonctonRad. I often disagree with Keith, but he has interesting viewpoints that sometimes align with mine and others on this forum.

Even where I disagree, he can bring important contrarian perspectives that are held by many people in the city. I may ignore them, but I'd not dismiss them for my own peril.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Give it a goddamn rest. Countless examples in dozens of other cites across North America show how incredibly wrong you are on this. The idea that people will avoid Argyle at all costs just because parking is reduced and you can't zip right up the block at 60km/h has been universally rejected in planning for most of this century, and for good reason.

Excuse me for not toeing the line of planning dogma that seems to be the dominant accepted worldview in this forum.

Please provide evidence of the last time anyone was able to reach 60 km/h or Argyle.

Only time will tell of the strategy of making several blocks in the center of downtown largely inaccessible was sound planning theory. Hopefully the proponents of Nova Center have given considerable thought to how large numbers of taxis and limos will be able to access the entrance/exits of their building when major events are being held. Right now that does not seem to be an easy thing with this design.

[JET]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTkWB2nl4E
We were in Dublin, and where we wanted to go would take us along Grafton Street; we were looking for a bus that went that way. What was once probably a very busy thoroughfare for vehicles is now pedestrian only. People adapt, often we have no choice but to do that

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by JET

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTkWB2nl4E
We were in Dublin, and where we wanted to go would take us along Grafton Street; we were looking for a bus that went that way. What was once probably a very busy thoroughfare for vehicles is now pedestrian only. People adapt, often we have no choice but to do that

I was there a month ago... loved walking down Grafton and then coming out into St. Stephen's Green. It's a great city.

[JET]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I was there a month ago... loved walking down Grafton and then coming out into St. Stephen's Green. It's a great city.

Sláinte

[Jonovision]

Spent the day on Saturday taking in all the celebrations. It was awesome to see it so busy and the complete closure of the Prince/Sackville block for a dance party/beer tent was amazing!

20171104_110628_HDR by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171104_111820 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171104_112316 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171104_225821 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by JET

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTkWB2nl4E
We were in Dublin, and where we wanted to go would take us along Grafton Street; we were looking for a bus that went that way. What was once probably a very busy thoroughfare for vehicles is now pedestrian only. People adapt, often we have no choice but to do that

Was there last fall. Grafton St was really busy but everything flowed really well. Gives a great vibe to the city. Argyle St is going to be a great value add to downtown Halifax.

[NDPer4life]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

Spent the day on Saturday taking in all the celebrations. It was awesome to see it so busy and the complete closure of the Prince/Sackville block for a dance party/beer tent was amazing!

20171104_110628_HDR by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20171104_111820 by Jonovision23, on

Flickr

20171104_112316 by Jonovision23, on Flickr


20171104_225821 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

Ohhh no where did all these people park!!!
How did this happen in Canada ??
Hmmm Maybe people walked?!!!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by NDPer4life

Ohhh no where did all these people park!!!
How did this happen in Canada ??
Hmmm Maybe people walked?!!!

Not from Spryfield, Clayton Park or Lower Sackville methinks.

Downtown Halifax needs to belong to all the residents of the metro area, not just those fortunate denizens who can either afford to live there (the rich), or choose to live there (empty nesters and unattached young professionals).

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not from Spryfield, Clayton Park or Lower Sackville methinks.

Downtown Halifax needs to belong to all the residents of the metro area, not just those fortunate denizens who can either afford to live there (the rich), or choose to live there (empty nesters and unattached young professionals).

All the politicos shown have parking spots downtown paid for by HRM taxpayers.

The ones in the nighttime crowd shots are mostly students living in the south end plus young hipsters who probably biked, rollerbladed or found some other unconventional form of transportation.

[NDPer4life]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not from Spryfield, Clayton Park or Lower Sackville methinks.

Downtown Halifax needs to belong to all the residents of the metro area, not just those fortunate denizens who can either afford to live there (the rich), or choose to live there (empty nesters and unattached young professionals).

So take the damd bus. If your poor that’s the best option anyway. Your argument is foolish, we need to keep downtown ugly for the people of the suburbs. This is why Europe has beautiful cities because they don’t build downtown with spyfield in mind. That’s what public transport is for

[NDPer4life]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The ones in the nighttime crowd shots are mostly students living in the south end plus young hipsters who probably biked, rollerbladed or found some other unconventional form of transportation.

Those are the same people that frequent the bars on argyle. Or you could take a taxi or bus

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by NDPer4life

Those are the same people that frequent the bars on argyle. Or you could take a taxi or bus

Non sequitur. They were doing that just as much before HRM dropped millions on making the street "pretty".

[someone123]

It is okay to disagree on issues. However, please be respectful and avoid negative comments about other forumers. They don't add anything substantive to the discussion anyway.

[isaidso]

+1

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not from Spryfield, Clayton Park or Lower Sackville methinks.

Downtown Halifax needs to belong to all the residents of the metro area, not just those fortunate denizens who can either afford to live there (the rich), or choose to live there (empty nesters and unattached young professionals).

You can make a counter point that amenities in Spryfield, Clayton Park, or Lower Sackville are not for all residents but just suburbanites? What of the people who either chose or are forced to live downtown without a car and live in walking distance to downtown locations, they would have as tough a time getting to Lower Sackville.

Its an argument that can go both ways

Downtown - chose to live urban lifestyle with or without car, will have trouble getting to burbs.
Suburbs - escape urban life to live in larger house, likely don't go downtown often anyways.

Suburbs (a car friendly environment) shouldn't be built with extreme public transport requirements as they likely won't be used as often (by extreme I mean stops on nearly every corner with bus intervals of 20 min or under). Downtowns shouldn't be built with a suburban friendly car environment in mind either.

My 2 cents.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not from Spryfield, Clayton Park or Lower Sackville methinks.

Downtown Halifax needs to belong to all the residents of the metro area,

If you build the downtown for parking then it belongs to cars.

not just those fortunate denizens who can either afford to live there (the rich), or choose to live there (empty nesters and unattached young professionals).

I live downtown. I'm not rich. And while I'm a young professional, I do have a child. It's a little tight and I'll probably try to find a slightly bigger place soon. But it's also worth it in my mind. It's entirely possible if you come around to the idea that you don't necessarily need 2,000 SF and a double car driveway.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I live downtown. I'm not rich. And while I'm a young professional, I do have a child. It's a little tight and I'll probably try to find a slightly bigger place soon. But it's also worth it in my mind. It's entirely possible if you come around to the idea that you don't necessarily need 2,000 SF and a double car driveway.

I fully realize. I was responding just as much to NDPer4life's tone in his/her post as much as anything else. He/she comes across as a pretty sanctimonious and holier-than-thou left wing ideologue.

A downtown lifestyle is something that everyone should be able to aspire to if they so wish. Sacrifices will have to be made however (downsizing, maybe only one car if any car at all, etc). Halifax suffers from the problems of geographic constraint upon it's core, very much like Vancouver. I can foresee in the future this driving an exponential increase in housing costs in peninsular Halifax which may drive many people out of the market, especially people with families. Developers might take advantage of this by building more microcondo suites than anything else. City council should be cognizant of this and make sure that in the future, residential developments in the core should have a suitable number of two or even three bedroom units available, perhaps with a relatively reduced rental cost per square foot, so that young families aren't forced out into the exurban cultural wilderness........

As for parking, Bus transit isn't necessarily convenient or practical for all people for a variety of reasons. People will still need to have the ability to drive into the downtown if they so wish. There will need to be an appropriate amount of parking options, and a certain number of streets will have to be maintained as traditional thoroughfares so that people can get around. Side streets can be made into shared spaces (like Argyle), but streets like Hollis or Barrington need to maintain their current character. There is a middle ground here.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Non sequitur. They were doing that just as much before HRM dropped millions on making the street "pretty".

Yes, god forbid we spend some money on the downtown, the heart of the city, to make it look nice. Just terrible

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

You can make a counter point that amenities in Spryfield, Clayton Park, or Lower Sackville are not for all residents but just suburbanites? What of the people who either chose or are forced to live downtown without a car and live in walking distance to downtown locations, they would have as tough a time getting to Lower Sackville.

Its an argument that can go both ways

Downtown - chose to live urban lifestyle with or without car, will have trouble getting to burbs.
Suburbs - escape urban life to live in larger house, likely don't go downtown often anyways.

Suburbs (a car friendly environment) shouldn't be built with extreme public transport requirements as they likely won't be used as often (by extreme I mean stops on nearly every corner with bus intervals of 20 min or under). Downtowns shouldn't be built with a suburban friendly car environment in mind either.

My 2 cents.

Absolutely. Just because you happen to have a car doesn't mean you're forced to bring it with you everywhere you go. Personally, while I have a car that i use mostly for going out of town or to transport bulky items to/from locations outside downtown (mostly suburban) I don't consider it desirable or ethical to bring internal combustion vehicles with a single occupant to city centres and I refuse to do it. It's different for someone with young children or disabilities but for the majority I'd prefer to see parking at fringe areas like the HSC, Quinpool stripmall, etc where people can walk or take transit shuttles in. Best to think of the downtown as if it were a huge shopping mall and commercial/recreation complex. Obviously not something that you drive your car directly into, but that there are ways to help people get around due to the large area compared to a normal building.

I actually wonder if that's part of the reason we've seen a decline of the indoor shopping mall versus big box store and strip malls over the last 20 years. That people are just too lazy to do that much walking. A large shopping mall is similar in scale to the downtown of some small towns and cities and is a totally pedestrianized environment. Even though they were often set in suburban areas, surrounded by parking, had no history or character, and were totally climate controlled, they were still ultimately pedestrian zones. Therefore they were just not a big enough concession to the automobile which must have complete, unfettered access to every human territory.