Adelaide Street Underpass - CP Tracks

[Dupcheck]

Good to see, but the project timelines are too long. 16 year long plan for some not so major road work seems kind of long! It should not take more than 10 years.

[MrSlippery519]

Our city is backwards sometimes the 2 below jobs could have and should have already been done...seriously they just got finished tearing up Bostwick and are building the new YMCA on the Southeast corner...they have also been finishing up apartments and new housing at Southdale and Colonel Talbot. Southdale has been torn up a number of times why would they not just make it 4 lanes while they were working?

Southdale Road West Phase 1 - Colonel Talbot to Farnham 2 to 4 through lanes with centre turn lane TS1629 year 2026
and
Southdale Road West Phase 2 - Farnham to Pine Valley 2 to 4 through lanes with centre turn lane TS1629 year 2022

I know its not always as simple as I make it but seriously I drive down this stretch everyday, the lighting and sidewalks are already far off the road, I have to assume water/sewage is already done unless they need to run a new link from Bostwick to Colonel? Either way from a cost standpoint they would have saved millions of dollars had they just done it already.

[jammer139]

this is a chronic issue with our city engineering and planning folks and maybe even the politicians. time and again we see this lack of vision and planning. Case in point this past summer they added a east bound lane to Oxford St. just west of Sanatorium road due the massive traffic backups during rush hours. When they extended Oxford St. across the Thames last decade to join with Commissioners Rd they had enough sense to build the new bridge 4 lanes wide but they made the road only 2 lanes and built storm drains and curbs at the 2 lane width. What mental midget thought that was a good idea?

[MrSlippery519]

I live in that area and was equally confused, it would have made a lot more sense to extend it to 4 lanes all the way to commissioners/oxford intersection at the least.

[TallerIsBetter]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

I live in that area and was equally confused, it would have made a lot more sense to extend it to 4 lanes all the way to commissioners/oxford intersection at the least.

Commissioner's/Glendon should be 4 lanes (with as many sections divided as possible) all the way out to the 402. Traffic volume is very high and will only increase with further development. There have been some nasty head-on collisions on that road,

I can also see some people using Glendon - 402 - Highbury/VMP as a de facto ring road for anyone oit there working anywhere in the SE sector of London, as it is a less stressful commute to keep moving around the city - even if it a longer distance - than stop-and-go through the city.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by jammer139

this is a chronic issue with our city engineering and planning folks and maybe even the politicians. time and again we see this lack of vision and planning. Case in point this past summer they added a east bound lane to Oxford St. just west of Sanatorium road due the massive traffic backups during rush hours. When they extended Oxford St. across the Thames last decade to join with Commissioners Rd they had enough sense to build the new bridge 4 lanes wide but they made the road only 2 lanes and built storm drains and curbs at the 2 lane width. What mental midget thought that was a good idea?

I think the problem was at that time, Oxford Street was still 2 lanes practically from Wonderland Road, so to build this "gap" of 4 lanes to 2 lanes back to 4 lanes would have put too much pressure on the City to fast-track the Wonderland to Sanitorium portion, resulting in other projects that were a higher priority to be pushed back to delayed.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I think the problem was at that time, Oxford Street was still 2 lanes practically from Wonderland Road, so to build this "gap" of 4 lanes to 2 lanes back to 4 lanes would have put too much pressure on the City to fast-track the Wonderland to Sanitorium portion, resulting in other projects that were a higher priority to be pushed back to delayed.

I think you are likely partial correct, however my biggest question is as Jammer139 says "build the new bridge 4 lanes wide but they made the road only 2 lanes and built storm drains and curbs at the 2 lane width. What mental midget thought that was a good idea?"

So they do all this work on the bridge and while doing the storm drains, etc how much extra work would have been involved to simply move them out to accommodate 4 lanes? Leave the road as a 2 lane road for the time being but for future proofing it does not make sense. I am not an engineer but I cannot imagine this would have added much time or cost to the initial bridge project which at the time was a very large job.

[jammer139]

I believe I read that Middlesex county is doing some early planning work for Glendon out to the 402. As this corridor has to be improved given the population growth expected in Kilworth and Komoka. There is a massive subdivision proposed just west of the 5 corners intersection with Vanneck Rd. Apparently they are looking at a large roundabout that will handle all the traffic at 5 corners intersection and widening the bridge over the Thames. Let's hope they have the vision to see the future 50 years out and build this entire route to accommodate 6 lanes from the 402 to River Bend. Get the EA's started now and land acquisitions.

Originally Posted by TallerIsBetter

Commissioner's/Glendon should be 4 lanes (with as many sections divided as possible) all the way out to the 402. Traffic volume is very high and will only increase with further development. There have been some nasty head-on collisions on that road,

I can also see some people using Glendon - 402 - Highbury/VMP as a de facto ring road for anyone oit there working anywhere in the SE sector of London, as it is a less stressful commute to keep moving around the city - even if it a longer distance - than stop-and-go through the city.

[Stevo26]

The thing that really grabs me is that I'm just old enough that I could very well be dead by the time the city actually get around to building the CP Rail
underpass - and that's assuming they actually start in 2031.

I say that because London isn't just notorious for its lack of planning and vision in its engineering and planning departments, it's also notorious for delaying projects.

As an aside, I'd be really, really, surprised if construction on the BRT project actually started in 2018 and on time.

The foot-dragging and delays smack of laziness and incompetence. Building a frigging railway underpass is not rocket science. It doesn't require a tremendous amount of planning nor endless studies and environmental assessments.

Can anyone tell me why London is chronically a day late and a dollar short on everything??

[MolsonExport]

fucking train tracks on Adelaide.I lost nearly 20 minutes today, waiting for a fucking freight train, which stopped at the last car, and then went into reverse. WTF???????????

Goddamned Adelaide is part of a fucking SHUNTING yard. Asinine.

[Rosso Corsa]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

fucking train tracks on Adelaide.I lost nearly 20 minutes today, waiting for a fucking freight train, which stopped at the last car, and then went into reverse. WTF???????????

Goddamned Adelaide is part of a fucking SHUNTING yard. Asinine.

Have you considered taking an alternate route?

[Dupcheck]

As usual our city does well on answering the questions:
What? and How?, but not so great with: Why? and Who?

This old outdated mindset has to change!
We should embrace more from the Lean Startup Approach!

[kaiserLDN]

Dec 14 is the next public meeting for this if someone hasn't already said it.

[kaiserLDN]

http://www.london.ca/residents/Environme...e%20CPR%20PIC%202%20Display%20Boards.pdf

Last nights display boards for the bridge.

[jammer139]

The recommendation is an underpass. I agree that is the best option. Hopefully they start digging tomorrow. Can't come soon enough. Would argue this is a higher priority then the Richmond St. CP crossing regardless of the BRT/LRT transit project timelines.

[Pimpmasterdac]

2031 is a ridiclious timeline.There's political will, and real sense of urgency with this project. If BRT project is a go, Adelaide being 4 lanes unobstructed has to be a prerequisite. Otherwise north-south traffic will be utter mayhem. If councik is smart they tie this project into the BRT request to the province and move on it pronto.

Hopefully no NIMBYs get in the way, alresdy heard a few on the CTV report, and Councillor Helmer seemed more worried about thr social affect of the area than traffic congestion.

[haljackey]

Update: Construction date moved to 2021 instead of 2031, but construction costs have more then doubled.

Below is from a Facebook post from councilor Jesse Helmer

-----

One of the proposed amendments included in the 2018 capital budget is to accelerate the timeline for construction of a grade separation on Adelaide St. Originally planned for construction in 2031, the draft 2018 budget brings this project forward to start as early as 2021. The cost of the grade separation has also increased significantly, to $59,900,000. The primary sources of financing for this project, unless we secure funding from other levels of government, will be debt and development charges.

One of the reasons to do this project earlier than planned is to improve pedestrian, cyclist, transit and vehicle traffic flow on Adelaide St in advance of when the North leg of the rapid transit corridor along Richmond St will be built (from 2022-2026). Construction of the East leg of rapid transit is planned for 2020-2023.

I've updated the overview page about the Adelaide St grade separation at http://helmer.ca/adelaide_cpr with information from the 2018 budget, including a link to the budget amendment case (#19), which contains more information about this project.

There will be another public meeting about this project sometime in 2018, the date, time and location of which has yet to be determined.

https://www.facebook.com/jessefhelmer/posts/1147684352028388?pnref=story

[jammer139]

Excellent news.

The increased cost of the underpass is still less then the estimated cost of the underground bus stop at Oxford and Richmond streets in the Tunnel proposal that was thankfully killed by saner minds.

This Adelaide underpass will provide a much higher return on investment for a larger number of people.

Next up?
Richmond under/over pass? or
Talbot street can opener or
Wharncliffe CN overpass replacement?

Which one should be approved next?

[Djeffery]

The price isn't going to get cheaper the longer this goes on, so let's just get it built. I agree with underpass (an overpass in that area would just be ugly for the neighbourhood).

As for what's next, I think Wharncliffe CNR. Richmond is a done deal as far as I'm concerned. Neither an overpass or underpass will fit in the current space and I can't see the city buying and knocking down the Selby building to make room for it. Plus it would look awful as well. I don't see the point to doing anything at Talbot. It doesn't need to be high enough for trucks. I drive a truck and have no trouble getting to where I need to go downtown now.

Wharncliffe CPR is in the middle of being done now, and doing the CN bridge will be a godsend for north/south traffic. And I'm tired of hearing about the little old lady's house. She was in her 50's when she moved there, it's not like it's her childhood home. And it looks like hell.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Well good they shaved a decade off the construction date. Similar to Sarnia Rd being widened in 2026, someone must've realized the timeline for the project was insane.

Huge increase, from $21 to $60 million. Hopefully get some funding from senior levels. I can only imagine other issue that increase costs once they start digging. Ultimately it's an essential grade separation, especially if BRT is coming down the pipe. As well I can see the neighborhood being dead set against an overpass since they don't want it to die ala Adelaide/CAN overpass.

@jammer hopefully we see the CN/Wharncliffe widening happen soon. The woman on 100 Stanley is dragging that process out, and pulling an the public's emotional NIMBY heartstrings. The EA page for it hasn't been updated in over a year. Here's hoping council has the balls to pull the trigger and get the underpass widening going there soon!