Highway 174

[MaxHeadroom]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ They are right about needing a bigger vision for the whole region.

Don't expect the City of Ottawa to have one. Look at the transportation mess south of Hunt Club. That's exactly what will happen in the east unless they build a new highway on a new alignment and get the heavy traffic away from homes.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MaxHeadroom

Don't expect the City of Ottawa to have one. Look at the transportation mess south of Hunt Club. That's exactly what will happen in the east unless they build a new highway on a new alignment and get the heavy traffic away from homes.

Exactly why the province needs to step in. It's not the city's job to care about the regional perspective.

[Cre47]

174 east of Trim is closed today due to another fatal crash. I've noticed that the Prescott-Russell portion through much of Rockland from Canaan to at least Landry (based on Google), the speed is down from 90 to 70 (although up from to 60 to 70 through the commercial portion by-passing the town centre), maybe Ottawa should do the same through their portion. The portion passing by Cumberland Village at Cameron Road is at 70 (down from 80 a couple of years)

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Cre47

174 east of Trim is closed today due to another fatal crash. I've noticed that the Prescott-Russell portion through much of Rockland from Canaan to at least Landry (based on Google), the speed is down from 90 to 70 (although up from to 60 to 70 through the commercial portion by-passing the town centre), maybe Ottawa should do the same through their portion. The portion passing by Cumberland Village at Cameron Road is at 70 (down from 80 a couple of years)

Collision involving a car and school bus. Driver of the car died.

[Uhuniau]

MP Frank Drouin pushing HOV lanes:

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1016269

[waterloowarrior]

leaked to the citizen...

https://twitter.com/davidreevely/status/835140810370875393

@davidreevely
"This is what a bad decision looks like while it's being made.

Translation: The city thinks widening the 174 will bleed 9-10% of ridership on the LRT's eastern leg. And the 174 will still be overcrowded. https://twitter.com/davidreevely/status/835141501743169538

Additionally, it will worsen congestion on the 174 between Place d'Orléans and Jeanne d'Arc. That will become a new choke point. https://twitter.com/davidreevely/status/835142599753203712"

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

leaked to the citizen...

https://twitter.com/davidreevely/status/835140810370875393

@davidreevely
"This is what a bad decision looks like while it's being made.

Translation: The city thinks widening the 174 will bleed 9-10% of ridership on the LRT's eastern leg. And the 174 will still be overcrowded. https://twitter.com/davidreevely/status/835141501743169538

Additionally, it will worsen congestion on the 174 between Place d'Orléans and Jeanne d'Arc. That will become a new choke point. https://twitter.com/davidreevely/status/835142599753203712"

And they are only studying traffic volumes east of the split. If the AM Peak Hour Auto Volume increases by 1500 between Montreal and Blare, what effect will that have on the 417 west of the split? I know that isn't the city's problem as it is a provincial highway, but those cars then have to get off the highway somewhere onto city streets, which have limited capacity.

[waterloowarrior]

So much for bundling this with the LRT work...

p 85 - MOE is requiring that the Confederation Line East extension be opened for at least 12 months before construction (including tendering) between 417 and Trim Road begins, and the City of Ottawa must complete a review of the need for the widening from 2-3 lanes from 417 to Trim.

http://www.en.prescott-russell.on.ca/Use...%20-%20ODJ%20-%2025%20octobre%202017.pdf

[Guideway]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

So much for bundling this with the LRT work...

p 85 - MOE is requiring that the Confederation Line East extension be opened for at least 12 months before construction (including tendering) between 417 and Trim Road begins, and the City of Ottawa must complete a review of the need for the widening from 2-3 lanes from 417 to Trim.

http://www.en.prescott-russell.on.ca/Use...%20-%20ODJ%20-%2025%20octobre%202017.pdf

This does have a good side to it; for those 12 months, people will use transit in that area more than ever before.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Guideway

This does have a good side to it; for those 12 months, people will use transit in that area more than ever before.

Does this affect the eastern section from trim to Rockland? On the occasions I head out that way the widening seem necessary even outside of peak periods, and the train is not going to make any difference there.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Does this affect the eastern section from trim to Rockland? On the occasions I head out that way the widening seem necessary even outside of peak periods, and the train is not going to make any difference there.

No, the LRT restriction only applies to the widening between the 417 and Trim.

There were some other restrictions regarding noise between Trim and Canaan, but those seem minor.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

So much for bundling this with the LRT work...

p 85 - MOE is requiring that the Confederation Line East extension be opened for at least 12 months before construction (including tendering) between 417 and Trim Road begins, and the City of Ottawa must complete a review of the need for the widening from 2-3 lanes from 417 to Trim.

http://www.en.prescott-russell.on.ca/Use...%20-%20ODJ%20-%2025%20octobre%202017.pdf

I would think that is because they can't turn over the bus lanes until the LRT is running.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

the City of Ottawa must complete a review of the need for the widening from 2-3 lanes from 417 to Trim.

That to me is the biggest tidbit. LRT will reduce the need for a wider 174, so a delay with a full review is appropriate.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

I would think that is because they can't turn over the bus lanes until the LRT is running.

True, but they only extend from just east of Blair to just west of Champlain.

[Dengler Avenue]

Speaking of the part between Trim Road and Rockland, does anyone know (or has anyone wondered) why back in the days MTO constructed Highway 417 from scratch instead of just twinning 17 along Ottawa River? From the discussion, it seems that if the latter were done instead, traffic on that segment wouldn't have been that much of a gong show today.

[J.OT13]

Does this mean the Orleans O-Train branch might open earlier? I feel like the plan was to widen the 174 first to have bus lanes from end to end before starting the rail construction (which is what was done for phase 1). If the 174 widening is dropped, then they can start the Confederation Line extension to Trim as soon as the contract is awarded.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Does this mean the Orleans O-Train branch might open earlier? I feel like the plan was to widen the 174 first to have bus lanes from end to end before starting the rail construction (which is what was done for phase 1). If the 174 widening is dropped, then they can start the Confederation Line extension to Trim as soon as the contract is awarded.

I don't see how widening the 174 would be a pre-requisite for LRT Stage 2 East. Unlike Stage 1, where the LRT is running on the former transitway, east of Blair, the transitway is bus lanes on the 174, so not usable by the LRT, so there will be minimal impact to buses by LRT construction. The only issue will be getting in and out of Blair station, but widening the 174 won't really help with that (they will likely create temporary bus lanes on the solders of the 174 for the short bit between the on/off ramps and the real bus lanes).

Once Stage 2 East is complete, the bus lanes will become superfluous, so they can be used to widen the 174.

Now the LRT will be built in the median of the 174, so hopefully any overpasses that need to be replaced, will be built to allow for the 174 to be widened. There would be no need to actually do the widening at the same time however.

[J.OT13]

I travel on the 174 everyday and it seems the median is too narrow at certain points to accommodate double track rail.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I travel on the 174 everyday and it seems the median is too narrow at certain points to accommodate double track rail.

I forget the exact alignment, but that is particularly problematic west of Montreal Rd. The east area should generally have enough room with construction of a couple Jersey barriers.

[Guideway]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I travel on the 174 everyday and it seems the median is too narrow at certain points to accommodate double track rail.

I think that what they mean by that they don't want to widen the 174 is that they won't add extra lanes. They will have to use some parts of the road as it does indeed seem pretty narrow so I assuming they will have to move the lanes over a bit (which I don't consider to be highway widening) to give a bit of leeway on the sides close to the LRT.