The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I hope they don't propose some stupid plan where a tower comes out of the Bay. That would be a travesty. While that can work, some buildings need to be untouchable, The Bay is one of them.

I suppose if the buyer is Holborn, they could do a density transfer to the Bay Parkade site, but - oh wait - there's 300ft view cone over that site.

I wonder if the City would ever relax the view cone over the Bay Parkade site to allow a density transfer to prevent the Bay store from being built on with short squat view-cone compliant blocks like the Main Post Office.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Vin

Absolutely! This is a classic example of a travesty. It reminds me of the bastardization of our own Stock Exchange Building.

Agreed. This would destroy one of the grandest early 20th Century buildings that we have.

Officedweller: I would love for that to happen. Unfortunately I feel that the city cares more about viewcones than heritage buildings.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Vin

Metropolis mall:

Why kill the golden goose? BC municipalities come up with the dumbest ideas. Plenty of grid road neighbourhoods to redevelop nearby in Metrotown. We get a dime and dozen grid-style downtown in every big city in North America, so just leave the mall alone. The mall itself, and its surroundings are both unique in this city, and it's not like it cannot be densified further.

Speaking of dumb ideas... If you look at their planning image for the area you'll see no new roads in the areas surrounding the mall - despite there being some really long blocks (that are being redeveloped) that are crying out for cross streets. At best they're adding in some pathways between buildings.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Map and legend from VancouverMarket.ca:


http://www.vancouvermarket.ca/2016/11/21/new-metrotown-downtown-plan-draft-released/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Burnaby really wants to knock down Metrotown and densify? Fine, but they should at least consider a vertical mall to replace it, like in Asia or the States.

Corrigan and friends seem to have fallen for the same "street interaction" garbage that Vision did: if they spread out the stores in the mall over a bunch of "complete streets," all the old shoppers will keep coming, but they'll spread out along the streets too! If so, they're even more shortsighted than I thought they were - Metrotown is the destination in itself half the time. No reason for people to visit Burnaby without it.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Corrigan and friends seem to have fallen for the same "street interaction" garbage that Vision did: if they spread out the stores in the mall over a bunch of "complete streets," all the old shoppers will keep coming, but they'll spread out along the streets too! If so, they're even more shortsighted than I thought they were - Metrotown is the destination in itself half the time. No reason for people to visit Burnaby without it.

Yeah, look how great Robson St. is doing!

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Vin

Question for you: Which is more wasteful?

1. 3-storey old woodframe walk-ups and single family homes (spread out everywhere in the city. Mostly ugly with short lifespans)

OR

2. Metropolis Mall (one of a kind good quality concrete structure in this city, surrounded by high-density condos and office towers, providing shelter from our wet west-coast weather for thousands of shoppers)


Which should the city choose to renew? Take your pick.

FYI, they can still keep the mall without the street-grid AND place high density condo towers or office towers above it. Seen Oakridge mall's master plan?

They're currently tearing all of these down in the Metrotown area, when they're gone, guess what's left...

Ron.

[logan5]

Metrotown land is so valuable (11 FSR allowed) that there will always be redevelopment happening, piece by piece, (like Sears) until there is nothing left of the mall, at least as we know it.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Corrigan and friends seem to have fallen for the same "street interaction" garbage that Vision did: if they spread out the stores in the mall over a bunch of "complete streets," all the old shoppers will keep coming, but they'll spread out along the streets too! If so, they're even more shortsighted than I thought they were - Metrotown is the destination in itself half the time. No reason for people to visit Burnaby without it.

Exactly. Who would want to do 'shopping' outdoor in winter when it snows for a month or rains heavily?

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Waders

Exactly. Who would want to do 'shopping' outdoor in winter when it snows for a month or rains heavily?

Have you ever been to northern Europe? The answer is, everyone,

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, look how great Robson St. is doing!

Sure, if central Burnaby ever reaches the same population (and resulting pedestrian crush capacity) as Robson or Granville. Or the same kind of unique stores and restaurants - really, there's not much in Metrotown that you can't find anywhere else.

Point is, a mall is greater than the sum of its stores; it attracts people from all over the metro because it's got everything in one contiguous, weather-proof building. Take away the building-wide events, security, sales, and climate control, then put traffic and red lights in the way... that's a plain old street grid, same as anywhere in the city.

Consumers from other neighbourhoods will just visit their street rather than a street halfway across town.
Moviegoers won't shop around while waiting for Star Wars to start.
Superstore and McDonalds lose their closing-hour crowds (which could be a good thing, if you're a cashier).
The teenagers monopolizing the food court are certainly not going to relocate to a rained-out plaza.
Rain or snow will deter everybody, unlike an indoor mall, or a downtown Vancouver street that's busy no matter what.

Tearing down Metrotown for a more compact five-storey mall or two makes sense. This just reeks of "stupid real estate grab," like the viaducts.

Originally Posted by csbvan

Have you ever been to northern Europe? The answer is, everyone,

I'd like to point out that the Scandinavian countries have malls too.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sure, if central Burnaby ever reaches the same population (and resulting pedestrian crush capacity) as Robson or Granville. Or the same kind of unique stores and restaurants - really, there's not much in Metrotown that you can't find anywhere else.

Point is, a mall is greater than the sum of its stores; it attracts people from all over the metro because it's got everything in one contiguous, weather-proof building. Take away the building-wide events, security, sales, and climate control, then put traffic and red lights in the way... that's a plain old street grid, same as anywhere in the city.

Consumers from other neighbourhoods will just visit their street rather than a street halfway across town.
Moviegoers won't shop around while waiting for Star Wars to start.
Superstore and McDonalds lose their closing-hour crowds (which could be a good thing, if you're a cashier).
The teenagers monopolizing the food court are certainly not going to relocate to a rained-out plaza.
Rain or snow will deter everybody, unlike an indoor mall, or a downtown Vancouver street that's busy no matter what.

Tearing down Metrotown for a more compact five-storey mall or two makes sense. This just reeks of "stupid real estate grab," like the viaducts.



I'd like to point out that the Scandinavian countries have malls too.

I would at it in a different way. Places like Oakridge, Brentwood, Lougheed and Metrotown have the potential to be large networks of interconnected highrises that go on for blocks all under one roof and are themselves interconnected by transit. The mall is not the mall it is the pathway that interconnects all of these building together.

Think of the path in Toronto or Bental 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (maybe there is more now).

The advantage here is it can be done above ground and with a three story enclosed retail complex that has space for public squares, special event space etc.

[jollyburger]

Exactly. Shopping malls aren't just enclosed boxes anymore with anchor tenants on each corner.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'd like to point out that the Scandinavian countries have malls too.

Right, but that has nothing to do with what I was replying to. I was replying to a comment stating that people don't want to shop outside when it snows or rains.

[Metro-One]

That's odd, seeing how last time I was in Van Robson and Granville had quite a few empty "for lease" spaces while Pacific Centre and Metrotown were packed as always... Also Granville is more entertainment than shopping.

I for one much prefer inside shopping when the weather is poor. As do many others.

Like transit and roads, this is not an "either or" situation. A great urban environment is made up of varying spaces.

Some well integrated indoor shopping centers (connected to or directly built around transit) are important to have IMO. It is one of the urban aspects I love most in Japan (was just in Osaka and always amazes me how there are countless underground levels of shopping and train stations mixed together throughout the core regions, along with the great street level spaces).

The mall in Metrotown is a destination, and to fully remove it would be foolish.

What could be done is to move the main level to the second and / or third floor and have skywalks continuing the mall from podium to podium while allowing Burnaby to create a better street network. This way you can literally have both and create a destination urban environment.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

They're currently tearing all of these down in the Metrotown area, when they're gone, guess what's left...

Ron.

Hello Ron,
Have you driven down Kingsway and observe what's on its left and right? Or maybe drive down East Broadway. They are everywhere! How many metrotown malls do u see?

Originally Posted by Sheba

Speaking of dumb ideas... If you look at their planning image for the area you'll see no new roads in the areas surrounding the mall - despite there being some really long blocks (that are being redeveloped) that are crying out for cross streets. At best they're adding in some pathways between buildings.

Sigh, the irony of it all....

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sure, if central Burnaby ever reaches the same population (and resulting pedestrian crush capacity) as Robson or Granville. Or the same kind of unique stores and restaurants - really, there's not much in Metrotown that you can't find anywhere else.

Point is, a mall is greater than the sum of its stores; it attracts people from all over the metro because it's got everything in one contiguous, weather-proof building. Take away the building-wide events, security, sales, and climate control, then put traffic and red lights in the way... that's a plain old street grid, same as anywhere in the city.

Consumers from other neighbourhoods will just visit their street rather than a street halfway across town.
Moviegoers won't shop around while waiting for Star Wars to start.
Superstore and McDonalds lose their closing-hour crowds (which could be a good thing, if you're a cashier).
The teenagers monopolizing the food court are certainly not going to relocate to a rained-out plaza.
Rain or snow will deter everybody, unlike an indoor mall, or a downtown Vancouver street that's busy no matter what.

Tearing down Metrotown for a more compact five-storey mall or two makes sense. This just reeks of "stupid real estate grab," like the viaducts.



I'd like to point out that the Scandinavian countries have malls too.

Lol goodness gracious! We are beginning to sound more and more alike.

Originally Posted by csbvan

Have you ever been to northern Europe? The answer is, everyone,

They have ones way nicer and newer than ours, such as this one:
https://www.google.ca/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!...ahUKEwiIg7vpoZvXAhUQzGMKHdTRC54QoioIejAK

Stockholm itself has more than 30 nice malls. Lol.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Right, but that has nothing to do with what I was replying to. I was replying to a comment stating that people don't want to shop outside when it snows or rains.

And they don't - they might have to, but I doubt they like it. I'm willing to bet good money that bad weather drives Danes or Swedes indoors to their malls just as much as us.

Originally Posted by Vin

Lol goodness gracious! We are beginning to sound more and more alike.

Hah - well, don't wait for me to start endorsing underground malls in Creekside or high-rises in Kerrisdale; we simply agree that Metrotown works. If it was failing just as badly as Lansdowne (which is getting the same teardown and rebuild) or Brentwood (which is just being built upward), this "plan" would make sense.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Hah - well, don't wait for me to start endorsing underground malls in Creekside or high-rises in Kerrisdale; we simply agree that Metrotown works. If it was failing just as badly as Lansdowne (which is getting the same teardown and rebuild) or Brentwood (which is just being built upward), this "plan" would make sense.

And you had to go ahead and spoil our lil "bro" moment.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Hah - well, don't wait for me to start endorsing underground malls in Creekside or high-rises in Kerrisdale; we simply agree that Metrotown works. If it was failing just as badly as Lansdowne (which is getting the same teardown and rebuild) or Brentwood (which is just being built upward), this "plan" would make sense.

A case of planners applying "one size fits all" thinking?


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How Miniso might just be a Dollarama disruptor in Canada
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/how-miniso-might-just-be-a-dollarama-disruptor-in-canada/

[s211]

FFS, if I hear the phrase "disruptor" one more time...

Gosh darn millennials and their newfangled attempts to re-write the English language.