PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by Larry King

http://planphilly.com/articles/2017/10/3...-to-philly-s-affordable-housing-question

^ this bill is a disaster and would basically halt market rate development in north Philly and elsewhere, maybe the goal?

Knowing how regressive Quinones-Sanchez and Clarke (you mentioned North Philly) are, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the goal.

I disagree with this bill since I disagree with the notion that Philly is an unaffordable city or has a "housing crisis" going on. If one thinks that Philly is unaffordable, then they should take a trip to a city that has a REAL housing/affordability crisis, such as San Francisco, Boston, or New York. There are HUGE sections of the city that are relatively underdeveloped, transit-accessible, and affordable. Hell, not all of those areas are what would be considered "dangerous" (ex. Olney, West Oak Lane, Cobbs Creek, etc.). The goal should be building up sections of the city that have large-scale abandonment and vacancy, not creating disincentives that hinder the market from delivering new housing units. I would go as far to say that this bill would decrease affordability in certain submarkets. If developers have less incentive to construct new units, then existing units will be bought up and renovated, further constraining the supply of housing. I don't get why stupid people think that constraining the supply of housing, ESPECIALLY when Philly has been dealing with record-low levels of inventory, will help affordability.

[summersm343]

Yep... makes no sense to make this mandatory. It should just be a zoning bonus for including low income units.... like height parking or density bonuses, etc.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Knowing how regressive Quinones-Sanchez and Clarke (you mentioned North Philly) are, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the goal.

I disagree with this bill since I disagree with the notion that Philly is an unaffordable city or has a "housing crisis" going on. If one thinks that Philly is unaffordable, then they should take a trip to a city that has a REAL housing/affordability crisis, such as San Francisco, Boston, or New York. There are HUGE sections of the city that are relatively underdeveloped, transit-accessible, and affordable. Hell, not all of those areas are what would be considered "dangerous" (ex. Olney, West Oak Lane, Cobbs Creek, etc.). The goal should be building up sections of the city that have large-scale abandonment and vacancy, not creating disincentives that hinder the market from delivering new housing units. I would go as far to say that this bill would decrease affordability in certain submarkets. If developers have less incentive to construct new units, then existing units will be bought up and renovated, further constraining the supply of housing. I don't get why stupid people think that constraining the supply of housing, ESPECIALLY when Philly has been dealing with record-low levels of inventory, will help affordability.

I was reading a list of top 100 Philadelphians and both Clarke and Quinones-Sanchez were top 10 with glowing bios. I was smh coz those guys don't have a damn clue how a city should function. Shame that they look to be the future of Philly.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by jjv007

I was reading a list of top 100 Philadelphians and both Clarke and Quinones-Sanchez were top 10 with glowing bios. I was smh coz those guys don't have a damn clue how a city should function. Shame that they look to be the future of Philly.

If those idiots are the future here, I’m moving to Florida.

[ScreamShatter]

How about they focus on bringing more jobs to the city and reducing the jobless rate in their neighborhoods? That would solve so many of the city's problems.

While they are at it, ban big box retailers like Walmart and Target and create small business loan programs and tax credits to purchase goods from small businesses so that small businesses have an even playing field against big business.

[Boku]

Bones from 407 human skeletons tallied in court report on Arch Street building site

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsy...ion-site-pmc-orphans-court-20171030.html

[1487]

Originally Posted by jjv007

I was reading a list of top 100 Philadelphians and both Clarke and Quinones-Sanchez were top 10 with glowing bios. I was smh coz those guys don't have a damn clue how a city should function. Shame that they look to be the future of Philly.

It was about the most influential people in the region. It doesn't mean you have to like them or agree with them. I thought that was obvious. Clarke by default has significant clout based on his position on Council.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Knowing how regressive Quinones-Sanchez and Clarke (you mentioned North Philly) are, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the goal.

I disagree with this bill since I disagree with the notion that Philly is an unaffordable city or has a "housing crisis" going on. If one thinks that Philly is unaffordable, then they should take a trip to a city that has a REAL housing/affordability crisis, such as San Francisco, Boston, or New York. There are HUGE sections of the city that are relatively underdeveloped, transit-accessible, and affordable. Hell, not all of those areas are what would be considered "dangerous" (ex. Olney, West Oak Lane, Cobbs Creek, etc.). The goal should be building up sections of the city that have large-scale abandonment and vacancy, not creating disincentives that hinder the market from delivering new housing units. I would go as far to say that this bill would decrease affordability in certain submarkets. If developers have less incentive to construct new units, then existing units will be bought up and renovated, further constraining the supply of housing. I don't get why stupid people think that constraining the supply of housing, ESPECIALLY when Philly has been dealing with record-low levels of inventory, will help affordability.

It's not just about housing prices, it's about having some level of mixed income in areas that are rapidly getting more expensive. If you think this is only supposed to be a statement about general unaffordability in Philly you are mistaken. Everyone who has a shred of common sense knows that the MEDIAN price of a house in philly is low, but increasingly that's only because there are really cheap houses in really undesirable parts of the city. Even poor people don't want to live in many of the areas that are currently "affordable". Also, based on what was written today it seems that developer would be able to put money into the HTF to fund projects in working class areas which actually aligns with what you just said.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Larry King

http://planphilly.com/articles/2017/10/3...-to-philly-s-affordable-housing-question

^ this bill is a disaster and would basically halt market rate development in north Philly and elsewhere, maybe the goal?

You can't be serious. You honestly think that Sanchez is stupid enough to craft a bill that is supposed to generate new units with the intention of KILLING all new development which would in fact generate no affordable units? — kind of sense does that make? Until there is a bill that becomes law there is nothing definite about any legislation. So I don't see how a conceptual bill that the article clearly says is being tweaked can be pronounced as the death knell for all future private sector development in philly. Please. What bill details have you even seen in print? All we have heard about are outlines of goals and bonuses. It even says that she is conceding that the requirements for existing buildings being modified may not be feasible.

I think it's unwise to presume that everyone who doesn't share your profile or your exact views on development is stupid or incompetent. But you can't teach an old dog new tricks. If only MQS was as politically astute and wise as posters on this site- then all our problems would be solved.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by 1487

It's not just about housing prices, it's about having some level of mixed income in areas that are rapidly getting more expensive. If you think this is only supposed to be a statement about general unaffordability in Philly you are mistaken. Everyone who has a shred of common sense knows that the MEDIAN price of a house in philly is low, but increasingly that's only because there are really cheap houses in really undesirable parts of the city. Even poor people don't want to live in many of the areas that are currently "affordable". Also, based on what was written today it seems that developer would be able to put money into the HTF to fund projects in working class areas which actually aligns with what you just said.

I can agree with mixing incomes (an accepted principle of creating stable, vibrant neighborhoods), but I can't help but ask: what makes you think that the "affordable" neighborhoods are "undesirable"? I wouldn't call Olney, Fern Rock, West Oak Lane, Oxford Circle, Mayfair, Cobbs Creek, Port Richmond (for now), Tacony, Overbrook, and many others as "undesirable". These neighborhoods have nice respective housing stocks, are relatively transit-accessible, and could house those who need a more affordable product. Not everyone can afford to live near the core, and that's okay. We have high-capacity transit that can move people from farther-flung neighborhoods to the core.

Ultimately, the goal should be to fill the blighted/largely vacant areas of North and West Philly. There are potentially viable neighborhoods out there that just need eyes on the street. Crime generally trends downward with an infusion of new residents.

[summersm343]

Development Edging Closer For Vacant Francisville Triangle



Read more here:
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/fr...ging-closer-vacant-francisville-triangle

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by 1487

You can't be serious. You honestly think that Sanchez is stupid enough to craft a bill that is supposed to generate new units with the intention of KILLING all new development which would in fact generate no affordable units? — kind of sense does that make?

Do I think Sanchez is clueless enough about the economics of Development to think this is a good idea? Yes... and the bill as written would probably kill all or most large projects in gentrifying north Philly. I agree it probably won’t become law but just the fact that it is proposed is an insult. I guess it’s a symptom of the federal govt no longer funding this stuff? I get the money needs to come from somewhere but putting the burden on builders taking big risks outside center city is totally unfair and unproductive

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Development Edging Closer For Vacant Francisville Triangle



Read more here:
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/fr...ging-closer-vacant-francisville-triangle

I live very, very close to this lot, and this looks like a fine development to me, although I'm curious to find out what the retail will be. Over the last few months people have gone back to parking in that empty lot (seems like there's 15-30 cars parked there at any given time) so the parking situation will get worse in the neighborhood once this begins construction, although that doesn't really affect me as I don't usually keep my car in the city.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

I live very, very close to this lot, and this looks like a fine development to me, although I'm curious to find out what the retail will be. Over the last few months people have gone back to parking in that empty lot (seems like there's 15-30 cars parked there at any given time) so the parking situation will get worse in the neighborhood once this begins construction, although that doesn't really affect me as I don't usually keep my car in the city.

Density around there has really picked up but retail is still lagging, So many empty stores in new buildings on ridge

[summersm343]

Planning Commission, SEPTA offer vision of improved trails and transit along the Wissahickon



Read more here:
http://planphilly.com/articles/2017/10/3...trails-and-transit-along-the-wissahickon

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Density around there has really picked up but retail is still lagging, So many empty stores in new buildings on ridge

I understand there's a risk, but tenants need to have more of a "build it and they will come" attitude. As is, I never travel up or down Ridge (in the ~2 years I've lived in this neighborhood I don't think I've walked on Ridge once...) not because I don't want to, but because I have 0 reason to. On the other hand, I'm going to stores on Fairmount Ave constantly, even if it's just heading to the CVS or the bank.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I can agree with mixing incomes (an accepted principle of creating stable, vibrant neighborhoods), but I can't help but ask: what makes you think that the "affordable" neighborhoods are "undesirable"? I wouldn't call Olney, Fern Rock, West Oak Lane, Oxford Circle, Mayfair, Cobbs Creek, Port Richmond (for now), Tacony, Overbrook, and many others as "undesirable". These neighborhoods have nice respective housing stocks, are relatively transit-accessible, and could house those who need a more affordable product. Not everyone can afford to live near the core, and that's okay. We have high-capacity transit that can move people from farther-flung neighborhoods to the core.

Ultimately, the goal should be to fill the blighted/largely vacant areas of North and West Philly. There are potentially viable neighborhoods out there that just need eyes on the street. Crime generally trends downward with an infusion of new residents.

As with many people here you seem to be somewhat out of touch with areas outside of CC, Temple, Fishtown, etc. A decent rowhome home in areas such as Overbrook or even West Oak lane is going to run you $140k-$180k. Yes that is cheap compared to a new construction house in fishtown or point breeze, but that is not low income housing for normal working class people in Philly. Those are places where people with decent, but not high paying jobs (teachers, city workers, etc.) often settle. Those people are NOT the intended beneficiaries of any proposal Sanchez is proposing. If you are making a max of $41k or whatever the article mentions you realistically are not looking to buy a $160k+ rowhouse. Conversely you aren't going to buy a fixer upper in Overbrook for $120k and be able to make extensive renovations.

The other point is that higher income areas have better access to nearly everything people want and need- from fresh food, to gyms to restaurants, etc. Outside of the core and a few gentrifying areas most of Philly lacks many of the urban amenities (especially walkable amenities) that we find in Center city, Northern Libs, etc. I do think there is something to be said for the notion that some folks who may have been in an area before it became hot get to actually enjoy the improved neighborhood once it becomes chock full of amenities.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Do I think Sanchez is clueless enough about the economics of Development to think this is a good idea? Yes... and the bill as written would probably kill all or most large projects in gentrifying north Philly. I agree it probably won’t become law but just the fact that it is proposed is an insult. I guess it’s a symptom of the federal govt no longer funding this stuff? I get the money needs to come from somewhere but putting the burden on builders taking big risks outside center city is totally unfair and unproductive

insult to whom? Developers? Spare me. Whatever final version gets passed will be watered down enough for them to make money. No matter what is proposed vs the status quo (think tax abatement) they will always claim they can't make a profit. BS. Not everything built in north philly is over 10 units so even if I believed the suggestion that this bill would end all 10+ unit development outside of CC that doesn't even cover a huge proportion of what is being built.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Play nice, kids. Insulting/derogatory language does not help one's argument.

[summersm343]

Natural grocer Sprouts to open store in historic South Broad Street train shed

Sprouts Farmers Market Inc. plans to open a store in the 140-plus-year-old train shed that’s part of the Lincoln Square residential and retail development on South Broad Street, according to plans filed with a city agency.

Sketches to be reviewed Wednesday by the Philadelphia Art Commission show logos for the natural foods grocer on the historic freight shed at the northwest corner of the Lincoln Square development site, which is bounded by Carpenter Street and Washington Avenue, between Broad and 15th Streets.

Already confirmed for the complex, now under construction, are Target Corp. and PetSmart Inc. stores. It is also to include about 360 rental apartments.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...lincoln-square-south-broad-20171031.html