[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Budyser

Coliseum has 1,995 official parking stalls. I counted them via google maps aerial view.

That sounds like the sort of obsessive thing I would do - congratulations!

Originally Posted by Budyser

I wonder how many ticket holders will not need to use their cars anymore to go see an event downtown? Well, I'm one of them.

Don't know; but only a small minority of Monctonians actually live in the core. The curse of our city is urban sprawl. Hopefully this will correct itself over time as the downtown densifies, but parking garages in the core will be necessary as the importance of the DT area increases.

Originally Posted by Budyser

The Main street bus drop off has been expanded, the events centre itself appears to have bus drop off zones, and easy in/out for taxis. For those living just outside the "easy walking distance' may prefer this option rather than taking their own cars.

True, but at the presentation, even the city officials admitted that only a small minority of patrons will actually take the bus to events at the downtown centre. Several people made mention of the fact that playoff games can sometimes extend well into the late evening, past the point at which the bus service stops for the day.

Originally Posted by Budyser

1,995 parking spots appears easily available south of the tracks, if only, they are giving the ok from land owners. If that's a go, then the only pain in the ass obstacle is the walk on Foundry, under the Main st subway, then 200m to the centre's front door. Solution to this is to build that underground passway below the tracks now and get this over with.

There is no question that the holy grail for events centre parking is that large lot just to the south of the railway tracks. If that is made available, a lot of the problems will be solved. I have a sneaking suspicion the Robert Irving himself is negotiating access to this lot for Wildcats season ticket holders; presumably for a fee (VIP parking).

Originally Posted by Budyser

Does the Events Centre not have x amount of handicap spaces on site? Yes I believe they do.

Yes they do, and actually there will be more handicapped spaces available at the events centre than at the coliseum, but they will be metered (and not free like at the coliseum).

Originally Posted by Budyser

With that alone, do we not have enough just for Wild Cats & Moncton Miracles games? I'm not even including side street parking and private lot owners who will allow parking.

For routine game day attendance, the Wildcats and Magic are probably OK, but for important games and playoff games, parking will be a big issue.

Originally Posted by Budyser

When I go to concerts in Montreal, private parking are collecting $5-$7 per night.

That sounds reasonable. All I know is that the city representative used the figure $25 in his presentation. I don't know where that came from.

Originally Posted by Budyser

Here's a thought. The City could negotiate a property tax discount for allowing free parking on their private lots after 6pm. With a nice sign that says "Free Parking For Event Centre 6:00pm to 2:00am only".

Good idea, but I don't think "free" parking is absolutely necessary. Parking in the $5 range sounds about right. On street evening and weekend parking however should remain free. I agree that highly visible signage announcing which lots are available for events centre parking are mandatory, if for no other reason than to combat the evil blight of those vile booters........

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Don't know; but only a small minority of Monctonians actually live in the core. The curse of our city is urban sprawl. Hopefully this will correct itself over time as the downtown densifies,

I have a feeling this new building will quickly change that. The fewer people that have to drive to games/events the better. It's pretty interesting if you go to games in Saint John and live within the Uptown/North End: You can walk home and watch as those who live in the Valley have to sit in the parking lot, at traffic lights, and on the highway onramp when games are finishing. Moncton will be no different. It won't take long for people who live in the Downtown to idly mention their ten minute walk home as those driving back to Riverview or Dieppe lament the 20 or 30 minutes it'll likely take.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

but parking garages in the core will be necessary as the importance of the DT area increases.

Of course, and parking garages are infinitely better than surface parking lots.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

True, but at the presentation, even the city officials admitted that only a small minority of patrons will actually take the bus to events at the downtown centre. Several people made mention of the fact that playoff games can sometimes extend well into the late evening, past the point at which the bus service stops for the day.

The need for an express or bus service tailor-made especially for the games could be done. Here in Ottawa, there is a shuttle bus service for 67s games for people parking more than a 15 minute walk away from the arena. Essentially they park at a certain lot not directly attached to the arena, are given a time when the shuttle buses are leaving, and then given a time after the game where the shuttle buses take them back to their parked cars. Something like this is tremendously easy to implement.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Good idea, but I don't think "free" parking is absolutely necessary. Parking in the $5 range sounds about right. On street evening and weekend parking however should remain free. I agree that highly visible signage announcing which lots are available for events centre parking are mandatory, if for no other reason than to combat the evil blight of those vile booters........

• Parking in SJ can range from $3 to $10 depending on where you park.
• Halifax can range from $5 to infinitely more depending on where you park.
• Oshawa can range from $5 to $10 depending on where you park.
• Kingston can range from $5 to $7 depending on where you park.
• Ottawa can range from free (across the river) to $15/$20 at the parking at the arena.
• Toronto Marlies parking is $20/$25 at the arena.

I'll make the point again, but adjacent to the arena in Kingston is a Food Basics which has a parking lot similar to what the Sobeys has for Moncton's arena. A section of the parking lot is sectioned off for games/events (say 30%) and that section of parking is basically guaranteed for the arena when it's being used. A security guard infrequently makes the rounds to check cars. Moncton's Sobeys can easily do something similar to add 50/75 spots.

[flyer99]

I'll say it before and I'll say it again... most of the Wildcats season ticket holders are seniors. They are NOT going to walk more than 10 minutes to their games. Winter walking is hazardous at the best of times and if we do get a few snowstorms there goes any on street parking. And most of the sidewalks will be missing as well. There are not of lot of people in Moncton that live in the downtown core that are within a 10 minute walk. Even if that lot across the tracks is made available for a fee, most seniors will not make that hike down Foundry, under the subway and back up Main.

They said that any on street parking will not be free? Even disabled parking will be metered? How screwed up is that?

Irving has to know not only the demographics of its season ticket holders but also the "walk in" crowd. They MUST certainly recognize the problem that is to ensue here.

May I also state that these "private lots" are rented out on a monthly basis to persons wishing to park there. Unless their contracts state otherwise, they have access to their spots 24/7 365. How, then, can they be rented out by the lot owners even if they wanted to? We have a lot downtown that we rent to 20 cars at $85/month. Some of these people work nights and expect their spots to be available for them whenever they need them.

Also, if that lot that supposedly holds 2,000 vehicles across the tracks does become available it will only be to Wildcats season ticket holders I am assuming. So, what happens to the rest of us?

There are a ton of questions yet to be answered. This city has never thought this through. These 4,000 parking places they allude to even include the lots of apartment buildings and retail stores. What are they thinking?

This is a HUGE problem for the city and for Irving. They better get some factual analysis done and SOON!

[lirette]

Originally Posted by flyer99

I'll say it before and I'll say it again... most of the Wildcats season ticket holders are seniors. They are NOT going to walk more than 10 minutes to their games. Winter walking is hazardous at the best of times and if we do get a few snowstorms there goes any on street parking. And most of the sidewalks will be missing as well. There are not of lot of people in Moncton that live in the downtown core that are within a 10 minute walk. Even if that lot across the tracks is made available for a fee, most seniors will not make that hike down Foundry, under the subway and back up Main.

They said that any on street parking will not be free? Even disabled parking will be metered? How screwed up is that?

Irving has to know not only the demographics of its season ticket holders but also the "walk in" crowd. They MUST certainly recognize the problem that is to ensue here.

May I also state that these "private lots" are rented out on a monthly basis to persons wishing to park there. Unless their contracts state otherwise, they have access to their spots 24/7 365. How, then, can they be rented out by the lot owners even if they wanted to? We have a lot downtown that we rent to 20 cars at $85/month. Some of these people work nights and expect their spots to be available for them whenever they need them.

Also, if that lot that supposedly holds 2,000 vehicles across the tracks does become available it will only be to Wildcats season ticket holders I am assuming. So, what happens to the rest of us?

There are a ton of questions yet to be answered. This city has never thought this through. These 4,000 parking places they allude to even include the lots of apartment buildings and retail stores. What are they thinking?

This is a HUGE problem for the city and for Irving. They better get some factual analysis done and SOON!

I dont deny that parking may be a problem for some people, and would love to see some of these surface lots developed and more dense garages put in..I hate surface parking...but some of the exaggerations about the parking I find to be a tad ridiculous.

For one thing the wildcats have already played 9 homes games to this point in the season and the weather hasnt even fallen below zero. with 5 more home dates in November they will have played over a third of their home games potentially without a single cm of snow on the ground. People seem to be talking as if every single Wildcat hockey game is played in snowstorms with 40CM plus and -30 temperatures. If there is a snowstorm games either get cancelled or they get played in front of a small crowd of diehards who are willing to get there, absolutely no team or arena is immune to this problem. Games have been played in the coliseum in front of 1500 fans during snowstorms. The events centre wont come crashing down to a halt if this happens.

Secondly..the walk from foundry street to the events centre is 450-600 metres depending how far back in the lot you park (I work at heritage court, I make the walk from the back of the lot to the building almost everyday). Theyve completely redone the sidewalk on that side (made it double width) to make it far more pedestrian friendly. If you think that lot is too far for someone to walk what is your proposal for this parking situation? Park directly on top of the building? There is no parking lot closer to the events centre than that one. Any new garage that would built would likely not be any closer than that lot..or if it is would cut down a 6 minute walk to a 4 minute walk.

I see seniors walking in my neighbourhood throughout the entire winter, they walk for 30+ minutes. I know for some there is mobility issues, but there is plenty of active seniors in our City who enjoy hockey. There is a middle ground here on this issue. The way you describe this issue there will be 10 people in the building on opening night. I guess ill be 1 of them.

[SevenSquared]

As far as the main tenant goes, all signs point to a big shift in who the casual fans and who the regulars/season ticket holders will be.

It's amazing to see the contrast in opinions based on age, but even moreso based on lifelong Monctonians vs new Monctonians/locals who have traveled a lot or moved away for a while.

When I talk to hockey fans in their 20s/30s/40s, everyone seems to attend 3-10 Wildcats games per year, and they all expect to attend far more regularly at the new rink. A few have parking worries, but others are really looking forward to being able to have drinks at the game and taking the bus home or going out to pubs/bars afterwards and cabbing home.

Personally I just hope the Wildcats will have the sense to adapt their frankly bland and one-size-fits-all presentation for the upcoming change in demographics. Would be nice if they had designated areas for different tastes: family/kids section, dry sections, jumbotron section (for those who actually WANT to be seen on it), supporter/standing section, ice-level bar etc. It's 2017 and they haven't really done anything interesting in 20 years. Saint John by contrast have adapted and modernized their game experience quite well.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by lirette

I see seniors walking in my neighbourhood throughout the entire winter, they walk for 30+ minutes. I know for some there is mobility issues, but there is plenty of active seniors in our City who enjoy hockey. There is a middle ground here on this issue. The way you describe this issue there will be 10 people in the building on opening night. I guess ill be 1 of them.

I'm sure the seniors will actually have it easiest of all. I mean... who has more experience walking against the wind and uphill BOTH ways in 6' of snow in -30 temperatures wearing nothing but wool?

[L'homard]

And we liked it, dag-nabbit!

[lirette]

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

As far as the main tenant goes, all signs point to a big shift in who the casual fans and who the regulars/season ticket holders will be.

It's amazing to see the contrast in opinions based on age, but even moreso based on lifelong Monctonians vs new Monctonians/locals who have traveled a lot or moved away for a while.

When I talk to hockey fans in their 20s/30s/40s, everyone seems to attend 3-10 Wildcats games per year, and they all expect to attend far more regularly at the new rink. A few have parking worries, but others are really looking forward to being able to have drinks at the game and taking the bus home or going out to pubs/bars afterwards and cabbing home.

Personally I just hope the Wildcats will have the sense to adapt their frankly bland and one-size-fits-all presentation for the upcoming change in demographics. Would be nice if they had designated areas for different tastes: family/kids section, dry sections, jumbotron section (for those who actually WANT to be seen on it), supporter/standing section, ice-level bar etc. It's 2017 and they haven't really done anything interesting in 20 years. Saint John by contrast have adapted and modernized their game experience quite well.

Have to agree with you on the Wildcats game presentation. I'm a season ticket holder whos only 28 and I go for the hockey & potentially to have a beer or 2. Nothing else about the Wildcats game day presentation or marketing appeals to me.

Its unrealistic to expect that Irving is going to do anything regarding the parking situation, but one thing he can do is change some of his marketing to appeal to the younger fan base. The wildcats is seen amongst most people my age as a family type event & atmosphere. There's nothing "cool" about it. I've been going to games since 2001 and havent owned a single wildcats jersey/hat/tshirt etc. I am a diehard fan but their logo is the worst in the league & so are their jerseys.

They have lots of younger staff on the business side now so they should be able to figure some of this stuff out. Do a complete overhaul on the uniforms & logo. Promote student nights & find ways to do promotions on beer. Get a better DJ or give the current DJ more free reign on playing music. The older folks at the game mostly pay no attention to this but you can attract younger fans by playing upbeat & trendy music.

They've stepped up their video/highlights/graphics side recently and this should play much better on the new scoreboard so keep up the good work there. They got an original goal song done by a band from the province. Keep doing things like this. I recommend sending the business/marketing side on a trip to some US Colleges hockey games or other various leagues teams that may draw a younger fanbase and get some ideas from there. I bet a trip up to the Videotron centre in quebec would be helpful.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The need for an express or bus service tailor-made especially for the games could be done. Here in Ottawa, there is a shuttle bus service for 67s games for people parking more than a 15 minute walk away from the arena. Essentially they park at a certain lot not directly attached to the arena, are given a time when the shuttle buses are leaving, and then given a time after the game where the shuttle buses take them back to their parked cars. Something like this is tremendously easy to implement.

One thing I would think would be easy to implement would be to use the existing parking lot at the coliseum, and connect it directly to the new events centre with a shuttle bus system heading straight down Millennium to Vaughan Harvey and then onto Main to drop patrons right off at the main entrance to the events centre. The routing would be direct and ideal, and if the busses left every five minutes (both before and after the game), would provide pretty rapid access to your vehicle. You could probably implement this service with as few as 6 busses in rotation until all the fans are taken care of. I'm sure Codiac Transpo could take care of this, but as always, funding would be the issue (this would likely be a voluntary overtime sort of thing for the drivers).

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

One thing I would think would be easy to implement would be to use the existing parking lot at the coliseum, and connect it directly to the new events centre with a shuttle bus system heading straight down Millennium to Vaughan Harvey and then onto Main to drop patrons right off at the main entrance to the events centre. The routing would be direct and ideal, and if the busses left every five minutes (both before and after the game), would provide pretty rapid access to your vehicle. You could probably implement this service with as few as 6 busses in rotation until all the fans are taken care of. I'm sure Codiac Transpo could take care of this, but as always, funding would be the issue (this would likely be a voluntary overtime sort of thing for the drivers).

I agree with this. It would be an excellent idea, IF city staff are capable of implementing it AND if Codiac Transpo can figure out how to stick to a schedule. There would be funding if the City would stop pouring funds into sculptures, renovating the city hall plaza, etc.

[felip_ars]

Not only funding for the buses, but also some security in the parking lot.

If there's no event at the old Coliseum, we're talking about an empty parking space without any supervision...a car theft heaven!

While probably the best idea in term of logistic (for now), it kinda remove one the selling point of having the Centre downtown which was to revitalize Downtown. And having a bunch of people leaving so that they catch their shuttle is not the way to do that...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by felip_ars

Not only funding for the buses, but also some security in the parking lot.

If there's no event at the old Coliseum, we're talking about an empty parking space without any supervision...a car theft heaven!

While probably the best idea in term of logistic (for now), it kinda remove one the selling point of having the Centre downtown which was to revitalize Downtown. And having a bunch of people leaving so that they catch their shuttle is not the way to do that...

Good point about the security needs in the old coliseum parking lot.

Regarding the people using a potential shuttle system, I think we are looking at the grey haired set in their 70s. These people are the least likely to head to a downtown pub before or after the game. They're old, cranky, on a fixed income, and one of their few sources of enjoyment is their (relatively inexpensive) seasons tickets which give them 34 nights a year entertainment. They are the ones being left out of any discussions regarding the new downtown centre. They are loyal Wildcats supporters however and are a primary part of the seasons ticket holder base of the team. Mr. Irving really needs to think of some way to address their needs, especially since it is becoming increasingly apparent that they have been abandoned by the city........

[habs33]

FYI
Downtown Event Centre Project Update

Venn Innovation and PMI New Brunswick are proud to present this Lunch and Learn on November 1st.

About the presenters:

Marc Landry - became the City Manager for the City of Moncton in April 2017. Prior to accepting this position he was the Chief Administrative Officer of Beaumont, Alberta since January 2008 and before that was the CAO of Bouctouche, New Brunswick. He was recognized as the youngest person to occupy a CAO position in Canada.

Anthony Boland - is a respected project leader with over 25 years of experience managing large, complex municipal, commercial and industrial projects. He excels at bringing order to projects with multiple end users, and ensures that each stakeholder is given a voice at the table that results in the full support by all parties involved. Having provided project management oversight of all phases of project life cycles, including initiating, design, monitoring and controlling, execution and close, as well as staffing and budget management, he has an excellent knowledge and understanding of the pros and cons of different contracting methodologies, and construction best practices.

Jack MacDonald - is a Professional Engineer residing in Moncton New Brunswick. In 1995, Jack joined the City of Moncton as Director Public Works and Utilities. Jack was appointed Director of Design and Construction. In 2005, Jack was appointed to the position of General Manager, Engineering and Environmental Services. In addition to his regular duties, in 2016, Jack was assigned project lead for the construction of the Downtown Event Centre. Jack serves on various committees and is Past Chair of the Transportation Association of Canada's - Chief Engineers Council and is an active member of several Associations.

Cost:
Non-members: $20 (including tax).
Members: included in membership.

[McKay]

One element that's been largely missing from the discussion so far is the capacity of the market to solve problems. If there's an unmet demand for parking, one or more land owners will find a way to make money by meeting it. The same goes for innovative transportation solutions. It needn't all happen the day the building opens; things will evolve over time to meet demand.

We have a heavily-entrenched mindset in this part of the world that it's the government's job to solve all of our problems, but often private enterprise will step in when it sees an opportunity and do just fine.

[Ammn_guy]

most common pharse i hear in NB "when are 'they' going to do something about it."

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lirette

Have to agree with you on the Wildcats game presentation. I'm a season ticket holder whos only 28 and I go for the hockey & potentially to have a beer or 2. Nothing else about the Wildcats game day presentation or marketing appeals to me.

Its unrealistic to expect that Irving is going to do anything regarding the parking situation, but one thing he can do is change some of his marketing to appeal to the younger fan base. The wildcats is seen amongst most people my age as a family type event & atmosphere. There's nothing "cool" about it. I've been going to games since 2001 and havent owned a single wildcats jersey/hat/tshirt etc. I am a diehard fan but their logo is the worst in the league & so are their jerseys.

Anyone bemoaning the Wildcats' presentation should head to SJ for a game. The whole Port City Rise branding has been directed entirely at millennials. There's an ice-level bar and everything, even if it's inhabited by the occasional boomer.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

When I talk to hockey fans in their 20s/30s/40s, everyone seems to attend 3-10 Wildcats games per year, and they all expect to attend far more regularly at the new rink. A few have parking worries, but others are really looking forward to being able to have drinks at the game and taking the bus home or going out to pubs/bars afterwards and cabbing home.

And this is the upside to an urban arena: you move aware from seniors and more towards younger folks. People who like going out to restaurants or bars before or after and generally provide more of an atmosphere at games than those who otherwise wouldn't.

If seniors don't want to renew their STs because of a change in parking practices then that's on them. The team should be coordinating its branding to reflect its arena's new location and accessibility to a younger audience. How many millennials can walk to the new rink as opposed to millennials who could drive to the old one?

Originally Posted by flyer99

I agree with this. It would be an excellent idea, IF city staff are capable of implementing it AND if Codiac Transpo can figure out how to stick to a schedule. There would be funding if the City would stop pouring funds into sculptures, renovating the city hall plaza, etc.

If you don't want to include Codiac Transpo, the team or the facility can easily use school buses for the short trip to wherever they're picking up shuttlers.

[flyer99]

Vorkuta, if you see this the outdoor web cam is stuck again... started Wednesday morning.

Are they really starting to pave Highfield Street extension. I think I saw that happening before the camera got stuck.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by flyer99

Are they really starting to pave Highfield Street extension. I think I saw that happening before the camera got stuck.

FWIW, the city minion at the Wildcats presentation regarding the parking issue seemed to feel that the street will not be called Highfield Street. He didn't elaborate, but it could be called Ivan Rand (because it intersects with Ivan Rand at Vaughan Harvey) or perhaps receive another name (and given the fact that this street will wrap around the events centre, it makes me wonder about calling it something like Ian Fowler Way, especially given Ian's association with the nascent idea of the events centre in the first place).

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by flyer99

Vorkuta, if you see this the outdoor web cam is stuck again... started Wednesday morning.

Checking.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by McKay

We have a heavily-entrenched mindset in this part of the world that it's the government's job to solve all of our problems, but often private enterprise will step in when it sees an opportunity and do just fine.

Ummm... Didn't government decide where this was being built? Didn't government plan this whole thing? Didn't government pay for it? I don't recall this project being a private venture. Oh, and private enterprise only has one thing in mind, MAKING MONEY! They really don't care whats fair or responsible, as long as money is to be made which might not be in the communities best interest.