Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

I believe DND and the RCMP moved to the suburbs because of the affordable prices of the former tech campuses. It was a cost saving move, not to help the economy or buy votes. They got the locations for pennies on the dollar because there weren't (m)any other organizations in Ottawa who could make use of them.

I don't know about the RCMP HQ, but the cost of DND HQ2 has spiraled out of control. $208 million to purchase sounds like a deal, but so far they've invested around $700 million for conversion. It would have been cheaper to build a new DND from scratch at the Rockliffe Airbase, which would also have been an easier commute for staff that mostly comes from the East-End.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...w-dnd-headquarters-will-change-this-city

EDIT Looks like hwy418 beat me to the argument.

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

DND isnt inconveniencing its employees. It was the choice of the employee to purchase in say Orleans, therefore it is the fault of the employee that they are on the opposite end of town. The plan to relocate has been in place for well over a decade, which means anybody living in Orleans now really has no excuse. And civilian employees at DND will move with the department. If you understood their compensation package and work schedule, you to would do anything to keep the job. Generally though it is not the employers responsibility to reduce commute times or even care where an employee lives.

Most employees probably worked at DND for over 10 years, so it's not "their" fault because they live in Orleans.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

One of the advantages of the mostly-white livery? It doesn't "date" as quickly. The 1980s Vancouver SkyTrain livery looked tacky within months.

And what we have already looks outdated. Closest thing to timeless in Canada is Montreal Metro's old livery (does not look 50 years old) and the old TTC Streetcars;


https://www.mtlblog.com/lifestyle/40-thi...bout-the-montreal-metro-but-now-you-will


https://www.flickr.com/photos/18378305@N00/2801885108

Montreal's new livery looks great. TTC's looks outdated.


http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/montreal/489716/les-trains-azur-demeurent-au-garage


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/10/28/ttc-will-sue-bombardier-over-late-streetcars.html

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't know about the RCMP HQ, but the cost of DND HQ2 has spiraled out of control. $208 million to purchase sounds like a deal, but so far they've invested around $700 million for conversion. It would have been cheaper to build a new DND from scratch at the Rockliffe Airbase, which would also have been an easier commute for staff that mostly comes from the East-End.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...w-dnd-headquarters-will-change-this-city

EDIT Looks like hwy418 beat me to the argument.



Most employees probably worked at DND for over 10 years, so it's not "their" fault because they live in Orleans.

1) DND does not care where its staff live. Somewhere between one third and half of all DND personnel in the National Capital Region are uniformed military personnel who are getting posted in/out every 3-4 years. Maybe two tours, so 8 years. That means, virtually all of those jobs will see their occupants move closer to work over the next few years. With each posting cycle, more and more will be living closer to work.

2) It is misguided to be fixated on the Nortel campus. There are several major campuses for DND. Not everybody at DND works at Nortel/Carling in Kanata. It's one of several major campuses being consolidated to. Including Louis St-Laurent in Gatineau, Star Top Rd, Leitrim and NDHQ downtown. That doesn't include several smaller offices (Coventry Rd, Montfort, Ottawa General, etc.) and DND personnel embedded in other departments. Here's a list from a realtor:

http://ottawarelocations.ca/military-relocations/ottawa-dnd-locations/

Some of those will consolidate. But major campuses above remain.

3) Not everybody who works at DND lives in the East End. In fact, the vast majority don't. And in due course, as the civvies retire and new personnel posted in take up residence around the campuses, this just won't be an issue. In a decade, a lot of DND personnel living in Orleans will be a memory.

4) Defence facilities cannot and should not be built just anywhere. It's bad enough that NDHQ is right in the downtown core. It was very smart to build the new HQ further out. Worked out well with them getting the Nortel complex. Too bad about the Chinese bugs.

[roger1818]

^^^One other advantage of the Carling campus is that it is very close to the Shirleys Bay facility. Also, the large, remote campus made it easy for them to create a security perimeter. Apparently the security is unlike other DND buildings in the capital.

[zzptichka]

Pimisi

[zzptichka]

Bayview

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

^^^One other advantage of the Carling campus is that it is very close to the Shirleys Bay facility. Also, the large, remote campus made it easy for them to create a security perimeter. Apparently the security is unlike other DND buildings in the capital.

Will be back in Ottawa next year. So get a chance to check out the new digs.

I worked at NDHQ a decade ago. Before the mantraps. Security was pathetic. Create a choke point where half the country's generals and colonels get off the bus and put it on a public sidewalk across from the busiest shopping mall in the city. That's not a vulnerability at all. /s

Someday, they'll move NDHQ out too.

I do wish OC Transpo could have extended right to Nortel though. Like the Pentagon:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_station

[Hybrid247]

Great shots zzptichka! Thanks for sharing.

I'm impressed with how quickly Pimisi and Bayview went up, but it seems to me that Blair has barely changed for months. I was expecting it be nearly done by now but it seems there's still a lot of work to be done. What's going on with that?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Great shots zzptichka! Thanks for sharing.

Yes. Thank you! I have been wanting a good picture of the new Booth St. bridge and Pimisi station for a while now. It is interesting in the Bayview picture you can clearly see the tracks they buried on either side of the station.

I'm impressed with how quickly Pimisi and Bayview went up, but it seems to me that Blair has barely changed for months. I was expecting it be nearly done by now but it seems there's still a lot of work to be done. What's going on with that?

My guess is they have been diverting resources from Blair to the other stations. Optimally they want to finish all of the stations on the same day. No point having any finished 6 months before they transfer the line to the city. Bayview is the only exception as it is shared with the Trillium line, so they would want to start working on it last and finish it first.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Someday, they'll move NDHQ out too.

My guess is it won't be long before they only have civilians and low ranking officers at NDHQ. Some of the higher ranking officers might have a second office at NDHQ for days they need to meet with politicians, but most days they will be at the Carling Campus. They may continue to call it NDHQ out of tradition though (and to make it sound important).

I do wish OC Transpo could have extended right to Nortel though. Like the Pentagon:

Things have changed a lot since the Pentagon station was built in the 70's. I suspect they wouldn't want it so close if they were to build it today. Having a shuttle from the LRT is more secure (it is easier to monitor who is travelling through the campus). Eventually they may request a dedicated shuttle from Moodie that only serves Carling and Shirley's Bay and a separate route will extend to Kanata North.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Great shots zzptichka! Thanks for sharing.

I'm impressed with how quickly Pimisi and Bayview went up, but it seems to me that Blair has barely changed for months. I was expecting it be nearly done by now but it seems there's still a lot of work to be done. What's going on with that?

I think they moved everyone to the other end to try and speed up the building of those stations to get things back on track. Blair, Cyrville, Tremblay and St Laurent can plod along at a very leisurely pace now because really it's just finishing touches that are required. They have to work at turbo mode at the other end if they want to have a hope of meeting the completion date. There is also a bit of logic of not fully completing the station until closer to the end. It just invites vandalism, despite the security presence.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't know about the RCMP HQ, but the cost of DND HQ2 has spiraled out of control. $208 million to purchase sounds like a deal, but so far they've invested around $700 million for conversion. It would have been cheaper to build a new DND from scratch at the Rockliffe Airbase, which would also have been an easier commute for staff that mostly comes from the East-End.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...w-dnd-headquarters-will-change-this-city

EDIT Looks like hwy418 beat me to the argument.



Most employees probably worked at DND for over 10 years, so it's not "their" fault because they live in Orleans.

$900 million is still a steal. The Bank of Canada just spent $600 million on their building renovation program (arguably similar security requirements), and they only got two towers for a couple thousand people. Cost per employee for DND is still low...

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

My guess is it won't be long before they only have civilians and low ranking officers at NDHQ. Some of the higher ranking officers might have a second office at NDHQ for days they need to meet with politicians, but most days they will be at the Carling Campus. They may continue to call it NDHQ out of tradition though (and to make it sound important).



Things have changed a lot since the Pentagon station was built in the 70's. I suspect they wouldn't want it so close if they were to build it today. Having a shuttle from the LRT is more secure (it is easier to monitor who is travelling through the campus). Eventually they may request a dedicated shuttle from Moodie that only serves Carling and Shirley's Bay and a separate route will extend to Kanata North.

Why would they leave only civilians at the old location?

I think it is extremely unlikely anybody will be allowed to have two offices. This would be considered far too extravagant.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why would they leave only civilians at the old location?

Basically bureaucrats and those who work closely with the bureaucrats..

I think it is extremely unlikely anybody will be allowed to have two offices. This would be considered far too extravagant.

Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why would they leave only civilians at the old location?

I think it is extremely unlikely anybody will be allowed to have two offices. This would be considered far too extravagant.

We're only talking about a small number of high ranking officials. It would probably be a type of swing space that could be used by several of them alternately, but it would have decently appointed trappings.

It's not uncommon for the most senior officials of an organization to have duplicate offices if the staff they oversee are divided up in more than one location.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by roger1818

My guess is they have been diverting resources from Blair to the other stations. Optimally they want to finish all of the stations on the same day. No point having any finished 6 months before they transfer the line to the city. Bayview is the only exception as it is shared with the Trillium line, so they would want to start working on it last and finish it first.

Ya they definitely shifted much of their resources and workforce to other parts of the line to bring those stations up to par. But seeing how the structural aspect of Blair is basically complete, I would have thought that a different group of tradesmen would be working on the finishing touches by now.

[Acajack]

I know it hasn't been announced, but does anyone have an inkling of when the line might open?

They say 2018 but I doubt it will be in December.

Maybe the spring or the summer? Best guess is what?

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I know it hasn't been announced, but does anyone have an inkling of when the line might open?

They say 2018 but I doubt it will be in December.

Maybe the spring or the summer? Best guess is what?

My guess is June, which gives enough time to iron out glitches before peak use in September.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

My guess is June, which gives enough time to iron out glitches before peak use in September.

I was thinking of May-June as well.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

$900 million is still a steal. The Bank of Canada just spent $600 million on their building renovation program (arguably similar security requirements), and they only got two towers for a couple thousand people. Cost per employee for DND is still low...

Not even close to the same security requirements. I know in the world that is the Public Service in Ottawa, all the bureaucrats who have never left the bubble seem to think that all federal departments are they same. They are not.

DND is substantially larger than any other government department. Has a unique mix of personnel with the military component and generally unique security requirements. The only other ones who come close would be CSIS and CSEC.

Other departments don't have SCIFs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_Compartmented_Information_Facility

DND has buildings where most of it is a SCIF.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why would they leave only civilians at the old location?

I think it is extremely unlikely anybody will be allowed to have two offices. This would be considered far too extravagant.

It's not uncommon for senior military staff to have two offices. The aren't huge or extravagant offices. They are there so facilitate meetings with politicians on the Hill. And often because the politicians themselves don't want to travel to far out locations in Ottawa.

Also, security. See above with a SCIF. Nobody is going to be discussing operations or intelligence in a parliamentary office.