Canadian Airport Thread

[J81]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I would hold off on ever using the words Bombardier and genius in a sentence. And in this specific situation you definitely want to put the words Airbus and genius in a sentence. Airbus paid nothing to create the plane which is a monstrous cost but will reap in its rewards.

I know you all like to hate on Bombardier but what they did was genius and most industry experts feel similarly. Airbus did not get anything for free. They bring their marketing expertise and resources along with access to their entire supply chain network as well as brand a association. These are all worth countless dollars. It was a win win deal on both sides and a great way to really put a hurt on boeing in the future.

[casper]

Originally Posted by J81

I know you all like to hate on Bombardier but what they did was genius and most industry experts feel similarly. Airbus did not get anything for free. They bring their marketing expertise and resources along with access to their entire supply chain network as well as brand a association. These are all worth countless dollars. It was a win win deal on both sides and a great way to really put a hurt on boeing in the future.

I am not certain the brand is that important. If Bombardier was a startup, then yes the Airbus brand means something. However Bombardier is a credable aircraft manufacture.

Is the Airbus supply chain that much better that Bambardier, hard to say at this stage. I don't see Bombardier starting to redesign the aircraft to source parts from someone else given the impact on certification and associated risk.

What Airbus bring is marketing and deep pockets to the make the program a success. Positive outcome for both.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by J81

I know you all like to hate on Bombardier but what they did was genius and most industry experts feel similarly. Airbus did not get anything for free. They bring their marketing expertise and resources along with access to their entire supply chain network as well as brand a association. These are all worth countless dollars. It was a win win deal on both sides and a great way to really put a hurt on boeing in the future.

This has nothing to do with a hate on. This company has been bailed out numerous times throughout its history and has made bad decisions along the way. The CSeries will disappear from Bombardiers portfolio when Airbus will have the option to buy it out outright in 7.5 years. I am curious when that happens if the jobs will in fact stay in Canada. I am also curious if that buyout money will be used to repay the Quebec and Canadian governments or in other words Canadian taxpayers. There was also a suggestion that the CRJ and Q400 lines were being discussed for sale hence my original question as to whether Bombardier was/is close to bankruptcy.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by LO 044

This has nothing to do with a hate on. This company has been bailed out numerous times throughout its history and has made bad decisions along the way. The CSeries will disappear from Bombardiers portfolio when Airbus will have the option to buy it out outright in 7.5 years. I am curious when that happens if the jobs will in fact stay in Canada. I am also curious if that buyout money will be used to repay the Quebec and Canadian governments or in other words Canadian taxpayers. There was also a suggestion that the CRJ and Q400 lines were being discussed for sale hence my original question as to whether Bombardier was/is close to bankruptcy.

No, there is no "buyout money" to repay Canada. Quebec's money is cast as an investment, so there is no repayment involved in this transaction, only a dilution of the participation. Afaik, the jobs at Mirabel are guaranteed until 2041.

[casper]

Originally Posted by LO 044

This has nothing to do with a hate on. This company has been bailed out numerous times throughout its history and has made bad decisions along the way. The CSeries will disappear from Bombardiers portfolio when Airbus will have the option to buy it out outright in 7.5 years. I am curious when that happens if the jobs will in fact stay in Canada. I am also curious if that buyout money will be used to repay the Quebec and Canadian governments or in other words Canadian taxpayers. There was also a suggestion that the CRJ and Q400 lines were being discussed for sale hence my original question as to whether Bombardier was/is close to bankruptcy.

The CRJ and Q400 are towards the end of their product cycle. Most of the other Bombardier aircraft when they reach that stage have gone to Viking here in Victoria.

That leaves the business jet business as the only aerospace part of the company not up for sale.

[yyzer]

Primera Air announces Birmingham U.K. to YYZ effective May 2018..

https://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/medi...ghts-from-birmingham-airport-to-toronto/

Edit: just googling around, there may be some more flights as well with Primera - YYZ to Stansted and also Paris...

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2...toronto/?utm_sourcemedium=OMAAT+Facebook

Toronto to London 3x weekly as of May 19, 2018
Toronto to Paris 4x weekly as of June 22, 2018
Toronto to Birmingham 3x weekly as of June 23, 2018

[DrNest]

Looking at that link, they're offering very cheap flights. I've no idea what Primera are like from the passenger experience, but I imagine it will be something like Wow Air.

[J81]

Originally Posted by casper

I am not certain the brand is that important. If Bombardier was a startup, then yes the Airbus brand means something. However Bombardier is a credable aircraft manufacture.

Is the Airbus supply chain that much better that Bambardier, hard to say at this stage. I don't see Bombardier starting to redesign the aircraft to source parts from someone else given the impact on certification and associated risk.

What Airbus bring is marketing and deep pockets to the make the program a success. Positive outcome for both.

Bombardier has been building commercial jets for half as long as Airbus and has sold thousands fewer aircraft. So having the Cseries attached to the Airbus brand is definitely a benefit. It opens up longtime Airbus customers who wouldnt have ever looked At the Cseries.

Do you really have to ask yourself if Airbus' supply chain is that much better then Bombardiers? Lol. It will allow them to produce more jets quicker that would not be possible without Airbus. This only really comes into play if they are able to secure the orders they think they can with this deal.

[casper]

Originally Posted by J81

Bombardier has been building commercial jets for half as long as Airbus and has sold thousands fewer aircraft. So having the Cseries attached to the Airbus brand is definitely a benefit. It opens up longtime Airbus customers who wouldnt have ever looked At the Cseries.

Do you really have to ask yourself if Airbus' supply chain is that much better then Bombardiers? Lol. It will allow them to produce more jets quicker that would not be possible without Airbus. This only really comes into play if they are able to secure the orders they think they can with this deal.

The issue with supply chain is you can't just swap one supplier for another supplier. You have to go back and redo the engineering and quality the new supplier on that specific part as a form-fit-function replacement. The issue is if its worth going through that effort.

I don't know Bombardier specific strategy with supplier and IP, but in other industries these days it is not uncommon to have the supplier do the engineering on their parts. When that happen the OEM does not have rights to the IP and an alternative supplier has to re-engineer the replacement part.

[SpongeG]

New screening measures kick in for travellers on all flights bound for U.S.

Changes affect roughly 2,100 flights daily flying into the U.S

CBC News Posted: Oct 26, 2017 1:03 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 26, 2017 1:26 PM ET


New U.S. security measures that came into effect today for all flights bound for the United States have some airlines warning passengers to leave more time to get through screening, although travellers going through Canadian airports may not notice a big difference.

Under the new procedures, travellers to the U.S. could be subject to detailed scrutiny of their electronic devices, and may have to go through interviews conducted by airline employees.

In light of the change, some carriers, including Delta Air Lines and Cathay Pacific Airways, were telling travellers on flights headed for the U.S. to be at the airport at least three hours before their scheduled departure time so they could get through screening.

...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-travel-security-united-states-1.4372944

[thenoflyzone]

A lot of construction going on in the international/domestic security checkpoint at YUL. Huge delays in the evenings because of this, as 8 lanes are closed and being converted to CATSA Plus.

[Johnny Aussie]

Top 10 Airports

In thousands of tonnes total cargo tonnage.

Airport. 2016. 2015. Change. % change

YYZ 381.7 368.0 13.7 3.7%
YVR 246.8 238.4 8.4 3.5%
YHM 109.9 110.8 (0.9) (0.8%)
YUL 89.9 79.8 10.1 12.7%
YWG 84.2 65.9 18.3 27.8%
YYC 74.5 82.5 (8.0) (9.7%)
YMX 72.2 70.2 2.0 2.8%
YQM 28.8 29.0 (0.2) (0.7%)
YHZ 26.5 26.7 (0.2) (0.7%)
YEG 24.8 28.3 (3.5) (12.4%)

YYZ, just like passenger figures, way out in front in a league of its own.

YVR also showing decent growth and holding a very solid second spot more than double third placed YHM.

YWG is the star performer in 2016 with the highest tonnage and % growth. YWG leapt from 7th to 5th spot and becomes the second largest cargo hub in Western Canada.

YUL also showed excellent growth.

On the downside....

YYC showed a sharp decline in tonnage and % terms. YYC got eclipsed by both YWG and YUL to fall from 4th spot to 6th.

YEG had a horrific year with the largest decrease in % terms. Even though YHZ also had a bad year, YHZ moved up to 9th while YEG slipped to 10th. Port Alberta??

Source: http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&id=4010045

Just have to manipulate the tables using the "Add/Remove data" function.

[SteelTown]

Inside info on Canada Jetlines.....

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

Canada Jetlines has dropped Kitchener-Waterloo airport from their startup plans. The are going to hub in Abbotsford and Hamilton. They will start with 4 planes and add at least 4 planes a year. The start date is still June 1, 2018. Tickets go on sale 90 days before the first flight. Here is their tentative program from Hamilton (YHM) for the summer 2018 to the winter 2019 - 2020.


Summer 2018

• Halifax (YHZ)
• Winnipeg (YWG)
• Calgary (YYC)
• Edmonton (YEG)
• Abbotsford (YXX)

Total Destinations 5

Winter 2018 – 2019

• Halifax (YHZ)
• Winnipeg (YWG)
• Calgary (YYC)
• Edmonton (YEG)
• Abbotsford (YXX)
• Las Vegas (LAS)
• Orlando (MCO/SFB)
• Tampa (TPA)
• Ft. Myers (RSW)
• Ft. Lauderdale (FLL)
• Cancun (CUN)
• Punta Cana (PUJ)

Total Destinations 12

Summer 2019

• St. John’s (YYT)
• Moncton (YQM)
• Halifax (YHZ)
• Winnipeg (YWG)
• Lethbridge (YQL)
• Calgary (YYC)
• Edmonton (YEG)
• Abbotsford (YXX)
• Victoria (YYJ)
• Las Vegas (LAS)
• Orlando (MCO/SFB)
• Ft. Lauderdale (FLL)

Total Destinations 12

Winter 2019 - 2020

• Halifax (YHZ)
• Winnipeg (YWG)
• Lethbridge (YQL)
• Calgary (YYC)
• Red Deer (YQF)
• Edmonton (YEG)
• Abbotsford (YXX)
• Las Vegas (LAS)
• Phoenix (PHX)
• Puerto Vallarta (PVR)
• Orlando (MCO/SFB)
• Tampa (TPA)
• Ft. Myers (RSW)
• Ft. Lauderdale (FLL)
• Cancun (CUN)
• Montego Bay (MBJ)
• Punta Cana (PUJ)

Total Destinations 17

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Top 10 Airports

In thousands of tonnes total cargo tonnage.

Airport. 2016. 2015. Change. % change

YYZ 381.7 368.0 13.7 3.7%
YVR 246.8 238.4 8.4 3.5%
YHM 109.9 110.8 (0.9) (0.8%)
YUL 89.9 79.8 10.1 12.7%
YWG 84.2 65.9 18.3 27.8%
YYC 74.5 82.5 (8.0) (9.7%)
YMX 72.2 70.2 2.0 2.8%
YQM 28.8 29.0 (0.2) (0.7%)
YHZ 26.5 26.7 (0.2) (0.7%)
YEG 24.8 28.3 (3.5) (12.4%)

Source: http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&id=4010045

Just have to manipulate the tables using the "Add/Remove data" function.

Good to see YQM (Moncton) as #8 on that list.

I can hardly wait for q12 to see this list. He'll blow an aneurysm when he sees YQM is higher than YHZ.......

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Good to see YQM (Moncton) as #8 on that list.

I can hardly wait for q12 to see this list. He'll blow an aneurysm when he sees YQM is higher than YHZ.......

The same discussion comes up every year. These are just numbers from Stats Canada. The true numbers for both pax and cargo come directly from the airport authority.

Halifax Stanfield Contributes $2.8 Billion to Nova Scotia Economy
POSTED ON OCTOBER 31, 2017
Halifax Stanfield International Airport is worth billions to Nova Scotia.

Our economy thrives on it – to the tune of $2.8 billion in 2016, a 4.4 per cent increase over 2015.

Our citizens rely on it – with a record number of 3.9 million passengers and 50 destinations served in 2016.

Our Nova Scotia export counts on it – a record 33,330 metric tonnes of air cargo were processed at the airport in 2016. The total impact from air cargo exporters on the provincial economy is approaching $490 million

Read more here:https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2017/10/halifax-stanfield-continues-enrich-nova-scotia-economy/

It looks like Halifax Stanfield is about to add some signifcant air cargo space as per this Herald article:
- http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1516292-halifax-airport-aims-to-increase-cargo-footprint


By the way here is Moncton's numbers:
http://cyqm.ca/news/growth-in-2016-for-yqm/

2016 Cargo numbers:

Moncton (YQM) 25,022 tonnes
Halifax (YHZ) 33,330 tonnes

Again, just read back a year ago or so and this was likely discussed on this forum about the difference in Stats Canada and the Airport Authorities numbers for cargo and passengers.

[ACT7]

This would be pretty fascinating if it ever came to fruition:

https://airlinegeeks.com/2017/11/03/advancing-afghanistan-the-recent-surge-in-afghan-competition/

Kam Air’s fleet is currently the largest in Afghanistan, with the airline operating a fleet of six aircraft consisting of five McDonnell-Douglas MD-80s and one Boeing 767-200ER. Short-term goals for the airline include expanding to destinations such as Jeddah, Kiev and Moscow. Long-term goals include eventually starting flights to Vienna, Toronto, Los Angeles, Washington and Hangzhou.

[ACT7]

Air Serbia to start flying directly to Toronto - report

https://www.b92.net/eng/news/business.php?yyyy=2017&mm=11&dd=02&nav_id=102708

[thenoflyzone]

Nova Scotia wants direct air service to China.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-...-scotia-trade-seafood-air-link-1.4391203

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Nova Scotia wants direct air service to China.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-...-scotia-trade-seafood-air-link-1.4391203

Is there a plane that can fly that distance without a stopover? Is it closer to fly east out of Halifax to China?

[MonctonRad]

A Halifax to Beijing flight would interestingly be almost directly over the north pole. I'm not sure what equipment would be used, but given the remoteness of the route, I imagine it would be a four engine jet.