PHILADELPHIA | River Walk | Two Towers | 363 FT & 315 FT | 32 FLOORS & 28 FLOORS

[Gonzo the Great]

A long time ago , in a galaxy far far away , a design commity had a dream about a new tower
at a river side .... The dream became reality and it was built . They called it ......... The
Marina City Towers .

My idea for a replacement of that , drab , cold war , goo-log , Siberian interment abortion
center may not be a very good idea , but a copy cat design of the Marina City Towers would be
a damn bit better looking result than what is being looked at now .
IMHO , a better design and more attractive to potential residents and a good addition to the
city .
............. What a great place to live , if you are employed right across the river from U City and
a potential explosion of new development ...... So I hope the design comity , in it's infinite
wisdom will sit down and come to a more appealing decision ....... in a galaxy far far away .

[summersm343]

Developer of 23rd and Arch site asked to give double tower proposal a second look

Read more here:
http://planphilly.com/articles/2017/10/0...to-give-two-tower-proposal-a-second-look

[Boku]

A wall of parking garages on the Schuylkill waterfront? In 2017, we know better

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/...surrounded-parking-garages-20171012.html

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Developer of 23rd and Arch site asked to give double tower proposal a second look

Read more here:
http://planphilly.com/articles/2017/10/0...to-give-two-tower-proposal-a-second-look

Originally Posted by Boku

A wall of parking garages on the Schuylkill waterfront? In 2017, we know better

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/...surrounded-parking-garages-20171012.html

Shocked, shocked to hear that there's gambling going on in this establishment!

Wait, a building that's ringed at pedestrian level on almost 4 full sides on a massive block with a parking garage is anti-urban and anti-pedestrian? Shocked.

Guys, this proposal kind of stinks and could be reimagined to be a game changer for a several acre property in Center City if PMC wasn't more worried about rubbing 2 pennies together to make a buck.

Insult to injury, the design of these buildings is like a 5.5/10. It's one thing if you're getting a transcendent structure that really can change the visual acoustics of a skyline - then maybe you're willing to sacrifice a bit at ground level as a concession - but these are effectively two vertical, glass wrapped rectangles.

[Frontst17]

I just can't comprehend how they're choosing NOT to take advantage of the SR trail. Its poppin daily from the art museum down to South and even with the tracks theres access and room to add easier access. Its almost as if its turning its back on it. Such a pedestrian friendly area these walls belong on city ave. Now that I think about it how great would this look on city ave...

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

I just can't comprehend how they're choosing NOT to take advantage of the SR trail. Its poppin daily from the art museum down to South and even with the tracks theres access and room to add easier access. Its almost as if its turning its back on it. Such a pedestrian friendly area these walls belong on city ave. Now that I think about it how great would this look on city ave...

I have often wished that the City would make a long term commitment to getting rid of the east side of the train tracks through CC. Then developers (but probably not PMC) could assume that one day the tracks wouldn't be there and make their plan with that in mind.

For most developers having a large parcel directly abutting onto a popular park would be a huge bonus and their designs would accommodate that fact. This design could be built any where, and shouldn't be built here. This site has the potential to be a very special location. There's very little positive to say for the present plan.

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I have often wished that the City would make a long term commitment to getting rid of the east side of the train tracks through CC. Then developers (but probably not PMC) could assume that one day the tracks wouldn't be there and make their plan with that in mind.

For most developers having a large parcel directly abutting onto a popular park would be a huge bonus and their designs would accommodate that fact. This design could be built any where, and shouldn't be built here. This site has the potential to be a very special location. There's very little positive to say for the present plan.

Unfortunately that will remain a wish, unless Philly and PA are ready to shell out what would likely be hundreds of millions to compensate CSX for the necessary infrastructure improvements/additions with the loss of those tracks.

Forget the tracks...the sheer popularity of the trail proves that the tracks aren't a perceived barrier, especially with all of the new bridges. This property should take advantage of the popularity of the trail and build out what Chicago has built out along the Chicago river. You can easily add a few small cafe's or bars that will be quite popular. It's what I hope will start to present itself with the new Aramark building.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Nova08

Unfortunately that will remain a wish, unless Philly and PA are ready to shell out what would likely be hundreds of millions to compensate CSX for the necessary infrastructure improvements/additions with the loss of those tracks.

Forget the tracks...the sheer popularity of the trail proves that the tracks aren't a perceived barrier, especially with all of the new bridges. This property should take advantage of the popularity of the trail and build out what Chicago has built out along the Chicago river. You can easily add a few small cafe's or bars that will be quite popular. It's what I hope will start to present itself with the new Aramark building.

You are probably correct that my dream will remain just that.
Meanwhile the City spends many millions working around the tracks, with so called boardwalks in the river, over passes, more of both to come.
The west side tracks allow double stacking of the standard 40' shipping containers, so in the race to deepen the shipping channel in the river and to improve and enlarge the port, I think the City could try to sell, work with CSX, coming up with a infrastructure improvement package that might benefit both parties.
I just don't understand how having large trains including tankers of crude oil and other chemicals, passing by the edge of the CBD can be considered a good thing. It reminds of prints of years gone that showed having a large number of smokestacks pumping who knows what into the sky was considered a good thing.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Nova08

Unfortunately that will remain a wish, unless Philly and PA are ready to shell out what would likely be hundreds of millions to compensate CSX for the necessary infrastructure improvements/additions with the loss of those tracks.

Forget the tracks...the sheer popularity of the trail proves that the tracks aren't a perceived barrier, especially with all of the new bridges. This property should take advantage of the popularity of the trail and build out what Chicago has built out along the Chicago river. You can easily add a few small cafe's or bars that will be quite popular. It's what I hope will start to present itself with the new Aramark building.

Sorry, but we will never come close to approximating the Chicago River with rail and highways preventing buildings right along the river. It is not happening. Those will need to be dealt with, notwithstanding use of the trail. That will take a lot of time and money but will hopefully happen some day. The Penns Landing Park cab to the Delaware is a good start.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Sorry, but we will never come close to approximating the Chicago River with rail and highways preventing buildings right along the river. It is not happening. Those will need to be dealt with, notwithstanding use of the trail. That will take a lot of time and money but will hopefully happen some day. The Penns Landing Park cab to the Delaware is a good start.

True fact: Wacker Driver (a multilevel highway) is one of the Chicago River's borders.

Chicago decked their lower levels over and raised the city level all throughout their downtown.

[jsbrook]

One more.

http://www.totallandscapecare.com/landscaping/riverfront-development-chicago/

Not trying to make this city v. city. Just sayin, we have a long ways to go towards truly reclaiming our riverfronts...

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

True fact: Wacker Driver (a multilevel highway) is one of the Chicago River's borders.

Chicago decked their lower levels over and raised the city level all throughout their downtown.

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=AJCG2MpURfoI5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=Az-8NG4GIA_wAM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=8FtquvJP9ZScOM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=LG30wROFf_a13M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=JVrbJC3vtndk5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...ii=u6dVH37qzf1crM:&imgrc=pG2v1FfDaCg1UM:

[mmikeyphilly]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

One more.

http://www.totallandscapecare.com/landscaping/riverfront-development-chicago/

Not trying to make this city v. city. Just sayin, we have a long ways to go towards truly reclaiming our riverfronts...



https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=AJCG2MpURfoI5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=Az-8NG4GIA_wAM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=8FtquvJP9ZScOM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=LG30wROFf_a13M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=JVrbJC3vtndk5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...ii=u6dVH37qzf1crM:&imgrc=pG2v1FfDaCg1UM:

One of the fascinating attractions about Chicago's river are the boat rides. out to Lake Michigan, and going through the boat locks, how the river meets the lake.
Here's a sample of the boat ride, and showing the locks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owhZIWw2Hw8

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly

One of the fascinating attractions about Chicago's river are the boat rides. out to Lake Michigan, and going through the boat locks, how the river meets the lake.
Here's a sample of the boat ride, and showing the locks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owhZIWw2Hw8

Would definitely recommend the architectural boat tour.


But, Chicago has been doing things to its river for ages. Of course back in the day they had to reverse it, which was unlike anything ever seen before. We've never done anything remotely close to that here in Philly. So as nice as it would be, I don't think we're going to see a better riverfront on the Schuylkill any time soon.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

One more.

http://www.totallandscapecare.com/landscaping/riverfront-development-chicago/

Not trying to make this city v. city. Just sayin, we have a long ways to go towards truly reclaiming our riverfronts...



https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=AJCG2MpURfoI5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=Az-8NG4GIA_wAM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=8FtquvJP9ZScOM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=LG30wROFf_a13M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...C&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=JVrbJC3vtndk5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+...ii=u6dVH37qzf1crM:&imgrc=pG2v1FfDaCg1UM:

I don't see what kind of point you're trying to make here...?

Of course we'll never rival the Chicago riverfront. The Schuylkill just isn't set up for it. Actually, the Schuylkill through Center City is about as wide as the Seine in Paris, which offers interesting possibilities in its own right.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

I don't see what kind of point you're trying to make here...?

Of course we'll never rival the Chicago riverfront. The Schuylkill just isn't set up for it. Actually, the Schuylkill through Center City is about as wide as the Seine in Paris, which offers interesting possibilities in its own right.

The dam by Waterworks will have to be re-engineered or that becomes the stopping point in trying to head west to say Valley Forge. I personally would love to see a marina on the Schuylkill River in Center City/Art Museum/Phily Zoo Area if that is even possible. The ones down by Penns Landing aren't that impressive and access to the Delaware River is more of a commercial channel and less of a recreational channel. Schuylkill could fit that bill. But there might be some objections from the Universities crew program. It could create a hazard for them with boats or other water crafts while they are people rowing.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

The dam by Waterworks will have to be re-engineered or that becomes the stopping point in trying to head west to say Valley Forge. I personally would love to see a marina on the Schuylkill River in Center City/Art Museum/Phily Zoo Area if that is even possible. The ones down by Penns Landing aren't that impressive and access to the Delaware River is more of a commercial channel and less of a recreational channel. Schuylkill could fit that bill. But there might be some objections from the Universities crew program. It could create a hazard for them with boats or other water crafts while they are people rowing.

20? years ago or so a marina was proposed on the east bank of the Schuylkill right at the base of the University Ave bridge. The land is still there------just open your wallet and bring your boat!

[1487]

it's back on the CDR agenda for 11/7. They made two minor changes to address complaints from the first hearing.

[Nova08]

My point about the river and reference to Chicago river was more about the commericialization of the SRT. The trail has boomed in popularity, even out in the suburbs where there are 100's of people on it in Conshohocken and beyond. I have to imagine a few cafes, bars, etc. would do really well for a good part of the year. I haven't been on the SRT in center city, but I don't remember much of anything aside from a few hot dog carts at Boathouse row and the few days that Parks on Tap is around.

[The Best Forumer]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

I just can't comprehend how they're choosing NOT to take advantage of the SR trail. Its poppin daily from the art museum down to South and even with the tracks theres access and room to add easier access. Its almost as if its turning its back on it. Such a pedestrian friendly area these walls belong on city ave. Now that I think about it how great would this look on city ave...

Maybe they didn't have enough money... ?

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Nova08

My point about the river and reference to Chicago river was more about the commericialization of the SRT. The trail has boomed in popularity, even out in the suburbs where there are 100's of people on it in Conshohocken and beyond. I have to imagine a few cafes, bars, etc. would do really well for a good part of the year. I haven't been on the SRT in center city, but I don't remember much of anything aside from a few hot dog carts at Boathouse row and the few days that Parks on Tap is around.

The Good Karma at 24th & Walnut is popping, like, all the time. I have to think more than a little of that's SRT traffic.

But consider: the Dranoff development down at the foot of Locust on what is that? -- 26th? -- was originally planned to have a retail stall right at the railroad crossing to the SRT. In one of those moments of stunning shortsightedness, the NA put the kibosh on that.

I think part of the problem is that near neighbors to the SRT don't really seem to want commercial properties associated with it. Which is rather annoying because I bet the developer would be willing to build a bridge to it if they got some additional retail as a concession. But it was the LSNA that actually had PMC scale back their retail plans to the blank walls you see in the latest proposal.

Edit: Or perhaps the developer should be working on that as a tradeoff -- we'll build the bridge if you let us capitalize on the connection.