Rural Commuter Rail

[Joseph Potvin]

Originally Posted by Charles5

In your letter of 25 Nov 2016 to CTA regarding your request for a Certificate of Fitness you indicate that

This was Moose Consortium Inc's reply to an Agency staff letter of 24 Oct 2016 regarding our 29 June 2016 application for a Certificate of Fitness.

Originally Posted by Charles5

Phase 1b of your Research was "underway as of July 2016"

Yes, MOOSE applied for a Certificate of FItness upon completion of what we refer to as our Phase 1(a) Pre-feasibility. After 29 June 2016, internally we consider the further developmental work, including communications with investment bankers, to be part of our Phase 1(b).

Originally Posted by Charles5

and was funded by $5.0M of Convertible Promissory Notes (top of page 8).

You have misread the text. The letter says "beginning in December 2016 Moose will pursue first-round investment of approximately $10M in order to complete feasibility, planning, consultation and approvals work".

Phase 1(a): (Completed as of June 2016) $250K in-kind or funds, with convertible Promissory Notes.
Preliminary research, feasibility and planning, Class D estimates. Decisions on Phase 1(b).
...
Phase 1(b): (Underway as of July 2016) $5.0M with convertible Promissory Notes. Expanded research, feasibility and planning. Class C estimates. Investor Prospectus to fund Phase 2. ... beginning in December 2016 Moose will pursue first-round investment of approximately $10M in order to complete feasibility, planning, consultation and approvals work.

A company does not fund a business with promissory notes or debentures. It provides investors with promissory notes or debentures as a conditional claim on future financial assets. All the "in-kind" investment of Phase 1(a), and as far as has been done into Phase 1(b) by MOOSE Consorium member companies, are indeed exchanged for promissory notes.

Originally Posted by Charles5

Can you clarify please as this seems to clash with your Press Release of 1 July 2017 which seems to suggest that Lemine was about to spend the following 120 days doing a due diligence review prior to considering funding for a feasibility study. Specifically, was your statement in your CTA letter of 25 Nov 2016 factually correct? If yes, can you provide any insight into the results of that research.

While I see how the couple of words you quoted could, on their own, be unclear as to whether Phase 1(b) was funded or would be funded, the following sentence of the same section makes it perfectly clear that "beginning in December 2016 Moose will pursue first-round investment of approximately $10M in order to complete feasibility, planning, consultation and approvals work".

Do you still think something was factually incorrect?

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

[acottawa]

So you have completed phase 1a, have not yet received funding for phase 1b, which is also where you were in July of 2016, so there has been no change in status in over a year.

[Joseph Potvin]

Originally Posted by acottawa

So you have completed phase 1a, have not yet received funding for phase 1b, which is also where you were in July of 2016, so there has been no change in status in over a year.

No change that we're reporting externally about yet. Gotta wait.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

[Allandale25]

Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin

This was Moose Consortium Inc's reply to an Agency staff letter of 24 Oct 2016 regarding our 29 June 2016 application for a Certificate of Fitness.

So you still don't have a Certificate of Fitness from the CTA? When do you expect a response from them on your application for one?

I Googled "CTA and Certificate of Fitness". From their Guide:

Guide to Certificates of Fitness

Sections 90 to 94 of the Canada Transportation Act require a person proposing to construct or operate a freight or passenger railway under federal jurisdiction to apply to the Agency for a certificate of fitness. The Agency issues such certificates if it is satisfied that there will be adequate third party liability insurance coverage for the proposed construction or operation.

This guide is designed to assist parties in obtaining and maintaining such a certificate and should be used in conjunction with sections 90 to 94 of the Act and with the Railway Third Party Liability Insurance Coverage Regulations (Regulations). In the event of a conflict between this guide and the CTA or the Regulations, the CTA and the Regulations will prevail.

The guide applies only to federally-regulated railways, which are those meeting one of the following criteria:

• operates across provincial/territorial or international boundaries;

• is owned, controlled, operated or leased by a federal railway;

• has been declared by Parliament to be for the general advantage of Canada; or

• is an integral part of an existing federal undertaking.

Are you trying to argue the Moose application fits into the first requirement? Or does the Certificate require that you are already operating?

[Charles5]

Joseph

LeMine's due dilegence review is expected to be completed in about a week. How long afterwards do you anticipate releasing the results of that review, which I understand to be a pre-requisite to the financing of Moose's feasibility study.

[Allandale25]

Originally Posted by Charles5

Joseph

Lemine's due dilegence review is expected to be completed in about a week. How long aftetwards do you anticipate releasing the results of that review, which I understand to be a pre-requisite to the financing of Moose's feasibility study.

Who is Lemine's?

[Charles5]

LeMine = LeMine Investment Group and Consortia N.A. who are potential investors in MOOSE

On 1 Jul 17 LeMine and MOOSE issued a press release indicating that LeMine would conduct a 120 day due diligence review which to my understanding would be the pre-cursor to determining if they would then provide the $5M funding for the MOOSE feasibility study.

As the 120 days is almost over, I'm curious to see if sufficient evidence has been found in the due-diligence review by the folks who might be funding this endeavour for them to start committing any real money. Up to now, all financing I think has been from within MOOSE itself. Despite Phase 1b being "underway" for the last 15 months it has yet to be financed to the best of my knowledge.

Link to press release
https://www.letsgomoose.ca/wp-content/up...tiaNA-MooseConsortium_2017-07-01bPDF.pdf

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Allandale25

Who is Lemine's?

A Toronto-based canola oil broker and property developer.

[Allandale25]

Originally Posted by acottawa

A Toronto-based canola oil broker and property developer.

Thanks.

[Allandale25]

Originally Posted by Charles5

LeMine = LeMine Investment Group and Consortia N.A. who are potential investors in MOOSE

On 1 Jul 17 LeMine and MOOSE issued a press release indicating that LeMine would conduct a 120 day due diligence review which to my understanding would be the pre-cursor to determining if they would then provide the $5M funding for the MOOSE feasibility study.

As the 120 days is almost over, I'm curious to see if sufficient evidence has been found in the due-diligence review by the folks who might be funding this endeavour for them to start committing any real money. Up to now, all financing I think has been from within MOOSE itself. Despite Phase 1b being "underway" for the last 15 months it has yet to be financed to the best of my knowledge.

Link to press release
https://www.letsgomoose.ca/wp-content/up...tiaNA-MooseConsortium_2017-07-01bPDF.pdf

Thanks.

120 = this Sunday, October 29th.

[Joseph Potvin]

Meanwhile, in Florida:
https://nextcity.org/features/view/florida-nimbys-america-first-private-high-speed-rail-brightline
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

It's a different business model, but it's about the same scale (240 mi, i.e. 390 km) as what MOOSE is planning.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

[acottawa]

Metro Miami is 6 million, metro Orlando is 2.3 million, it is hard to see how the regions are similar.

Also, Florida gets 98 million tourists per year.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin

Meanwhile, in Florida:
https://nextcity.org/features/view/florida-nimbys-america-first-private-high-speed-rail-brightline
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

It's a different business model, but it's about the same scale (240 mi, i.e. 390 km) as what MOOSE is planning.

I completely fail to see the similarity. Brightline is a single, high speed inter city rail line owned by the same parent company as the railroad who's tracks are being used. They are only planning on 4 stations (Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and the Orlando International Airport, though Cocoa is pushing for a stop as well). Moose, on the other hand, wants to have three commuter rail lines with dozens of stations.

Brightline will have new tracks from Cocoa to Orlando (about 38 miles), but everything else is on an active rail line and upgrades are only needed to achieve high speeds. Speeds will range from 127 km/h (between Miami and West Palm Beach), 177 km/h (between West Palm Beach and Cocoa), and 201 km/h (between Cocoa and Orlando). I don't think Moose will achieve anywhere near that speed.

Brightline is much closer in concept to CN deciding to build the planned Southern Ontario HSR line.

[Allandale25]

Originally Posted by Joseph Potvin

Meanwhile, in Florida:
https://nextcity.org/features/view/florida-nimbys-america-first-private-high-speed-rail-brightline
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

It's a different business model, but it's about the same scale (240 mi, i.e. 390 km) as what MOOSE is planning.

Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com

Actually, I see some key differences from the article you posted and MOOSE's situation:

...All Aboard Florida’s parent company, Florida East Coast Industries (FECI), stepped up.

Since the late 1800s, FECI has owned the region’s eastmost train tracks, on which it ran freight and passenger trains. From the train stations along Florida’s Atlantic Coast sprung West Palm, Fort Lauderdale, Miami and smaller towns between. The last passenger train ran along its tracks in the 1960s. With attention focused on state plans for a publicly operated rail corridor running from Tampa to Orlando, FECI launched a feasibility study for running fast trains along its fallow tracks to the south. With the public project dead, the state was able to approve some public support for the project, including the company’s right to sell $1.75 billion in municipal, tax-free bonds. Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties have additionally set aside more than $12 million for upgrading rail crossings.

All Aboard Florida has an existing railroad behind it and owns the tracks it runs on. That's not the case in the region Moose is interested in. Further, that existing railroad likely had a much easier time with the American version of the CTA than Moose has had with the CTA because it already is an existing railroad. I notice my comment about the CTA and the Certificate of Fitness has been ignored. The "state" provided some financial support through the bond. That has not happened yet. Ottawa Council hasn't moved any motion to support the MOOSE proposal. They haven't asked the Province or Federal Governments to support it.

[waterloowarrior]

Russell Township is reviewing the continued feasibility of its commuter bus service
http://www.editionap.ca/the-future-of-russell-transit-service-at-stake?id=832

[Allandale25]

Posted without comment. Headline:

Opposing lawyer: GLBT rail plan 'officially over'

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/po...ad-plan-dead-st-1107-20171106-story.html

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Russell Township is reviewing the continued feasibility of its commuter bus service
http://www.editionap.ca/the-future-of-russell-transit-service-at-stake?id=832

Maybe if the rural providers didn't insist on maintaining unrealistically high farebox recovery ratios they'd get riders. Casselman got rid of their transit service because the township was unwilling to maintain even their 10% share of the costs.

[Allandale25]

I note the Mayor of Hull, Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin, was re-elected last Sunday. This article (before election day) notes his support for LRT between Gatineau and Ottawa. Given the Moose Plan is for heavy rail (see picture below of the Moose logo on a GO Transit MP40-3C engine) and not LRT, I wonder if this makes the Moose proposal even more unrealistic. I don't see a quote from the Mayor endorsing the Moose heavy-rail option, but feel free to post if I'm wrong.

The mayor’s biggest priority: A rail link between Gatineau and Ottawa’s LRT, using the Prince of Wales Bridge.

“There has never been so much money available from the federal government for public transit.”

[Charles5]

I don't believe there was any significant change in the Chelsea town council either. They were not in support of MOOSE previously and I don't see any change as a result of the recent election.

[Charles5]

Originally Posted by Allandale25

Thanks.

120 = this Sunday, October 29th.

Well, the 120 day due diligence review by LeMine has come and gone and I haven't seen or heard anything about any official announcements. Knowing MOOSE's penchant for self promotion, I'm pretty sure they would have put out a press release if they had managed to secure the $5M they had been seeking for their feasibility study.

I suspect that Le Mine and their potential investors have come to the same conclusion that many of us have instinctively; that being that it doesn't make sense to run a train where there is insufficient ridership, where the rail line capacity doesn't exist (nor compatability in some cases), and with a funding model that is unreliable and unrealistic.

I may be wrong, but I shall wait and see. If my memory serves me correctly, MOOSE has suggested at least three times now that they would have financing for a feasibility study, going back to Feb 2016, and it still hasn't happened.