New Downtown Calgary Arena

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by bt04ku

My concern is that those are some pretty high angles to be looking at things.

These upper tier arrangements work for the new arenas where the lower bowl is massive. So do not imaging the saddledome second tier coming in. Rather, with an expanded first tier they are thinking of in the new arena, this "inverted" setup they are talking about would at best result in angles that we already get with a good portion of the second tier.

[McBoo]

Probably not fair to weigh in as an outsider, but I don't like the idea that all that the Flames want is only what Katz got here in Edmonton.

1) Oilers Entertainment owns and is 100 per cent responsible for arena operations and maintanence for (now) the next 29 years.
2) There is a casino as part of the complex, to which zero per cent of the proceeds go to OEG
3) OEG assembled all the required land before a deal was signed, that portion for the arena only then sold back to the city (which will take over arena ownership in 29 years) at cost.
4) The assembled land also includes the remainder of the Ice District - again, not on a first-right-of-refusal basis - but by OEG on its own.
5) OEG, through its development subsidiary has broken ground on, or completed $2 billion worth of towers on its own since the agreement and that's for part one - with renderings released for part two to follow.

Not taking sides - but not happy with the inferences that keep being made that Edmonton just "bent over." Not true, in fact the forecast incremental taxes from new developments in the district are already being used to pay for the city's investment plus several city improvements downtown nowehere near the arena.

[Calgarian]

Inverted bowl is a good idea on paper, but when it comes to actually building it, I think the big structural cantilevers will be quite expensive. Also, as lots of others have said, these balconies will have great views, so tickets will be quite expensive across the board.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Inverted bowl is a good idea on paper, but when it comes to actually building it, I think the big structural cantilevers will be quite expensive. Also, as lots of others have said, these balconies will have great views, so tickets will be quite expensive across the board.

Expensive tickets is exactly what they want. The NHL isn't like the NFL where TV contracts pay for all of the bills before the season even starts. NHL teams rely on revenue at the gate to survive and there's only so much you can jack up prices without improving the experience.

[Calgarian]

Vancouver has very expensive tickets and they had an absurd amount of empty seats for the HNIC game saturday. Owners better be careful, their greed could cripple them in tough times.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Expensive tickets is exactly what they want. The NHL isn't like the NFL where TV contracts pay for all of the bills before the season even starts.

In Canada they almost do.

Originally Posted by Corndogger

NHL teams rely on revenue at the gate to survive and there's only so much you can jack up prices without improving the experience.

As I've mentioned previously, major sports franchises are not really about sports. The sports part of the entertainment corporations (that are often development enterprises also) is just something to use as leverage. More than that, however, they rely on sweet facility deals to then run entertainment events out of and make way more than the sports teams in the first place. It is a great gig!

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Vancouver has very expensive tickets and they had an absurd amount of empty seats for the HNIC game saturday. Owners better be careful, their greed could cripple them in tough times.

Yeah - it looked really sad. The official count was bad, but the physical attendance was way worse (remember that businesses are often strong-armed into buying the most expensive season tickets as a per-cursor to bidding on contracts, and those seats are often not filled because the companies don't really care for the hockey). Check out this photo from Daily Hive for their Thursday game:
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-low-attendance-game

Official count for that game said just under 16,000, but I'd say it was well under 12,000 actual people. Sad indeed.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Vancouver has very expensive tickets and they had an absurd amount of empty seats for the HNIC game saturday. Owners better be careful, their greed could cripple them in tough times.

But were the seats sold?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

But were the seats sold?

I'm sure most of them were, but as the Canucks get further into their rebuild, they will sell less season tickets, and those seats will become unsold. In a city like Edmonton or Toronto, you can count on selling out every game because the fans are that crazy, Vancouver is a bit more fickle. We aren't as bad as Vancouver here, but Calgarians don't like paying for a bad product, so if CSEC charges the absolute max, then they will quickly start losing money the next time the Flames have a few bad seasons.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburbia

As I've mentioned previously, major sports franchises are not really about sports. The sports part of the entertainment corporations (that are often development enterprises also) is just something to use as leverage. More than that, however, they rely on sweet facility deals to then run entertainment events out of and make way more than the sports teams in the first place. It is a great gig!

Of course they are about sports, that's their #1 product. They may branch off into other areas, but sports is 100% their prime business and it's completely ridiculous to say otherwise.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

But were the seats sold?

I have heard that the Canucks waiting list for season tickets is no longer, i.e. demand is dropping.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by s211

I have heard that the Canucks waiting list for season tickets is no longer, i.e. demand is dropping.

Canucks fans have all crawled back under their rock.

[mytwocents]

So does anybody else think now that CSEC's horse has lost the race they'll concede to plan b?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by mytwocents

So does anybody else think now that CSEC's horse has lost the race they'll concede to plan b?

They will likely stay quiet for most of the rest of the season then quietly start negotiations again next year.

[O-tacular]

I’m already hearing people freaking out that the Flames are going to leave to Seattle. One special idiot on the radio claimed the Stamps would leave too. Here comes the artsy dystopia!

[Calgarian]

How much is the relocation fee in the NHL? remember hearing $200 000 000.00, but can't find anything on it. Flames aren't going anywhere, they will work out a deal with the city, it does seem that they are actually pretty close.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

They will likely stay quiet for most of the rest of the season then quietly start negotiations again next year.

I suspect you are correct.

[patm]

Team will be up for sale as soon as the IOC laughs at our Olympic Bid.

Any bid for which something so ghetto as the Grandstand is used as the stadium for the Opening and Closing ceremonies is a joke. I expect that once they turn Calgary down, they will work closely with a country that has been welcoming to the Olympics in the past and has better facilities already built to move ahead with 2026 with the IOC giving heavy concessions to them.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by patm

Team will be up for sale as soon as the IOC laughs at our Olympic Bid.

Any bid for which something so ghetto as the Grandstand is used as the stadium for the Opening and Closing ceremonies is a joke. I expect that once they turn Calgary down, they will work closely with a country that has been welcoming to the Olympics in the past and has better facilities already built to move ahead with 2026 with the IOC giving heavy concessions to them.

Are you for real man? The IOC desperately wants Calgary to bid even going so far as saying they can reduce the costs for us if we work with them. I'm starting to hope we aren't going to bid as I don't think taxpayers need to be on the hook for $2.4 billion. Who do you think they are going to turn to? if you have been paying attention you will know that the other cities in the running are considering dropping out because the Olympics are too expensive and the IOC's list of demands is beyond ridiculous.

Also, the team isn't going up for sale, they may try to relocate if they can't get a deal done in a few years, but that's very unlikely, despite all the rhetoric from CSEC. Selling the team would be extreme, especially since the Flames are profitable.

Do you actually know anything about this or are you just bitter that BS (fitting initials for that guy) lost?

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

How much is the relocation fee in the NHL? remember hearing $200 000 000.00, but can't find anything on it. Flames aren't going anywhere, they will work out a deal with the city, it does seem that they are actually pretty close.

Seattle is considered a prime location for exapnsion, and the most recent Vegas expansion fee was a cool $500 million.

Flames aren't going to Seattle.

[patm]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Are you for real man? The IOC desperately wants Calgary to bid even going so far as saying they can reduce the costs for us if we work with them. I'm starting to hope we aren't going to bid as I don't think taxpayers need to be on the hook for $2.4 billion. Who do you think they are going to turn to? if you have been paying attention you will know that the other cities in the running are considering dropping out because the Olympics are too expensive and the IOC's list of demands is beyond ridiculous.

Also, the team isn't going up for sale, they may try to relocate if they can't get a deal done in a few years, but that's very unlikely, despite all the rhetoric from CSEC. Selling the team would be extreme, especially since the Flames are profitable.

Do you actually know anything about this or are you just bitter that BS (fitting initials for that guy) lost?

lol first off, I was as anti-BS as it got. Check out my earlier posts in this thread.

Second, sure the IOC would love Calgary to put forth a real bid but from what the exploration committee proposed, Calgary will not be doing that and instead will submit a bargain basement bid that is frankly embarrassing. If the IOC is willing to except such a terrible bid from Calgary, I'm sure other cities in North America will jump on the chance except they won't have to resort to using something so decrepit as the Grandstand as the showpiece for the games. There has already been rumoured interest from Salt Lake City and Denver to bid for 2026 after LA got their double olympics. Both have better facilities than Calgary if the IOC is willing to accept concessions like they would have to in order for Calgary to bid.

Third, I think a sale is far more likely than relocating and keeping the team. They're set to realize massive returns on their initial investment if they can sell the franchise. They will have no risk. They sell the team and they take their money and do what they please with it, in fact, they can probably find a far more profitable investment for that money than the Flames. If they did move the team then they take on all of this risk from moving to a new market. Don't see them doing that when they're in a perfectly good market already. If they were serious about wanting to retain ownership, they would be negotiating in good faith.

(Also no one is paying $500 Million for an NHL team. The Seattle group already stated that they won't. People need to get that out of their head. Just cause Vegas caved, doesn't mean other markets will)