What keeps Atlanta from reaching LA, Chicago, or NYC levels?

[The North One]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

A good example is Detroit, which isn't a huge city or an international city but is extremely well known. It is well known because of 1) the global auto industry, which lead to its other well known quality, 2) extreme urban decay. Another good example is Las Vegas, which is an even smaller city but is extremely well known for its identity as a gambling mecca.

Detroit is well known yes because of the auto industry, but also because it's always been a cultural mecca especially in music; the Motown talent explosion, the creation of techno, there are entire genres dedicated to the city and it continues to produce legends today.

Anyone who would honestly argue Detroit isn't still the automotive capital of the world is mislead. The Detroit region boasts one of the highest concentrations of engineers in the world.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I guess this thread is asking what it will take for Atlanta to achieve international notoriety? If so, then the answer is obvious. It needs to be known for something. The airport helps but having the world's largest airport is an extremely fluid title. It needs to be known for something more immutable.

A good example is Detroit, which isn't a huge city or an international city but is extremely well known. It is well known because of 1) the global auto industry, which lead to its other well known quality, 2) extreme urban decay. Another good example is Las Vegas, which is an even smaller city but is extremely well known for its identity as a gambling mecca.

I have to nitpick the bolded.

Sure, Detroit isn't some huge draw when it comes to global tourism or transplants from outside the US, but let's not ignore the fact that it's one of the busiest international border crossings in the world and the largest cross-border city in North America (which, IMO, makes it an international city). Most "international" cities can't make the aforementioned claims.

[atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by jayden

I like most consider Atlanta to be an international city, and easily one of the most well known within the US, but still a step or two below the Chicago's, LA's and NYC's of the world.

Aside from population, obviously, what keeps Atlanta from reaching these heights?

I would say it's a mixture of heavy rail transportation, and remnants of Old-South conservatism prohibiting more explosive multi-cultural growth.

Why would Atlanta want to be like any of those cities. I also wouldn't put Chicago on that list.

[Tuckerman]

A couple of additional points on Atlanta:

1. As to number of visitors Atlanta ranks very high on domestic visitors, but is weak on international, cf. http://www.360chicago.com/top-us-cities-international-domestic-visitors/

2. From an African-American perspective Atlanta is very important today and historically. That significantly distinguishes it from most other cities in the "competition for fame".

[Ant131531]

Time is probably the most important reason...I mean Atlanta has only became fairly internationally relevant over the last 20-30 years. These cities have been relevant for many decades or even over a century.

And you already mentioned population. You can't expect a city of 500k and a metro of 6m to rival a nearly 10m metro, a 16m metro and a 22m metro.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I have to nitpick the bolded.

Sure, Detroit isn't some huge draw when it comes to global tourism or transplants from outside the US, but let's not ignore the fact that it's one of the busiest international border crossings in the world and the largest cross-border city in North America (which, IMO, makes it an international city). Most "international" cities can't make the aforementioned claims.

That's a label that I reserve for a select few cities. Mainly the alpha city immigration hubs.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I agree.

Although, some may argue the idea of owning and driving automobiles has developed into a culture of its own (one that Detroit started & perfected).

I don't think there is another city closely associated with the car as Detroit is. Perhaps if we were in Germany, we'd be talking about Stuttgart but I think even they'd appreciate Detroit's legacy on the automobile.

[Northern Light]

For things Atlanta is missing; I would start w/Fresh Water.

The shortage of that is a big hindrance to future development.

***

After that, I would suggest others are on-point in noting Atlanta will not be mentioned in the same breath as NYC in anyone's lifetime.

That is no insult to Atlanta; its merely that the difference in population and presence of national flagship institutions in finance, the arts etc. is something that is near impossible for a smaller US center to equal or overtake.

That's not to suggest Atlanta can't 'climb the ladder' in recognition or stature.

But Chicago is about as high up the food chain as is even remotely realistic; and that would be an enormous climb.

All that said, I'm going to come back to fresh water; without more of it; and/or drastic investments in efficiency and conservation, Atlanta's ability to grow further is severely constrained.

***

If one were to discuss 'reputation' and divorce that from population or exceptional economic growth, more is always possible.

But, one tends to get a reputation then for either a single centre of excellence corporate or academic etc. that is at least national and perhaps global in scale.

Or

From either an exceptional quality of life; and/or tourist-friendly qualities.

Again, this is no knock on Atlanta; but I don't see the basis for overtaking places w/those types of reputations in the near future.

Atlanta is not the ski hills of Vale, nor the beaches of Miami; its not the bustle of NYC, nor architectural charms of historic San Fran or New Orleans.

To become known at that next level means being more known (in a positive way) for something that all those places listed above.

****

I think a better aspiration is to address core concerns of existing businesses and residents and let the good news spread.

Address the water issue, the sprawl, the traffic.

Create a bit more verve downtown, w/heritage restorations and some signature new architecture.

Get all that right and with time, the other stuff will follow, at least in some measure.

[mademan404]

To put things into perspective; Atlanta has yet to reach half of a million residents in the city proper. On paper, the city is an economic workhorse. There are quite a few large corporations that put down roots here, but as far as urban experience the city is lacking. The few walkable nodes in the city suffer from poor connectivity and sub-par pedestrian engagement. The city has a stranglehold on street vending which provides a certain ambience to other more established towns. There is an interesting cultural identity in Atlanta, but it offers only 2nd tier cultural institutions to attract tourism to the city. Over the next 10-20 years the city will fill in and offer a more reasonable cultural comparison to other cities of its size.

DC, Boston, Miami, and San Francisco are all comparable in population, but enjoy much more engaging urban experiences. Lack of efficient transit, planning, and regional cooperation have had a lot to do with the pattern of growth in Atlanta. Streetcars, and infill development will never compensate for the absence of a large body of water (8 out of 10 of the largest metros in the US sit on a navigable body of water), but the city has is merits and again, on paper it works. It will take more than an airport and a good marketing strategy to reach genuine international notoriety. That only comes organically.

[austlar1]

Atlanta's economy is just not in the same league with the LA, NY, or Chicago (or SF, DFW, Houston, Philly, or Boston). Atlanta had the 10th largest local economy per GDP rankings in 2016. If it had a bigger economy, it would probably get more recognition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Atlanta to its credit is the home of a massive black middle and upper class, which maybe should be more well known internationally especially these days. in terms of contemporary black culture, it's #1 in the US, ahead of DC.

but other southern cities are more culturally significant (memphis, new orleans, nashville), prettier and more historic (charleston, savannah, new orleans) which takes away from the recognition it would otherwise get

I think this a bit of American navel gazing concerning racial issues. While this may be very important locally and even nationally and deserves kudos, at an international level it is not terribly relevant.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Atlanta is not well known outside the US. maybe in the 1990s for a brief period, but that's it.

Miami, NYC, Chicago, LA, SF, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, Boston, DC, Detroit are more well known.

I'm a Houston homer and there's no way Houston is more well known than Atlanta internationally except perhaps in a few locales. At worst, they are equal.

[maru2501]

ATL is the capital of the Southeast, so in some ways it is limited by its region's economic development, educational achievement, cultural benefits and conservatism on social issues

The other key reason is the cities you mentioned already exist, and there's only one country and just so much global investment to go around. And all three of those have a head start, and Chicago these days is vacuuming up a lot of stuff from well outside its historical zone of influence, including gathering up "north american" headquarters in part because of its central location etc - which strikes me as the kind of thing ATL could compete for

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Sure, Detroit isn't some huge draw when it comes to global tourism or transplants from outside the US, but let's not ignore the fact that it's one of the busiest international border crossings in the world and the largest cross-border city in North America (which, IMO, makes it an international city).

I thought that was San Diego.

[38 Geary]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think this a bit of American navel gazing concerning racial issues. While this may be very important locally and even nationally and deserves kudos, at an international level it is not terribly relevant.

Yep. The Civil Rights movement does not make Atlanta an international destination. Lack of internationally renowned landmarks, museums, parks, food, vistas, and urbanity keep it from reaching NYC, Chicago, or LA levels.

[Tuckerman]

I know that we are now in the Trump era where facts are routinely replaced by beliefs, but what does such a statement as "Atlanta is not well known outside the US...." mean? It is simply an assertion unconnected to any empirical evidence.

Given the CDC, the Carter Center, Emory School of Pub Hlth., Ga St. School of public health, CARE, the Am Cancer Society, Amer. Arthritis Foundation and a number of other health institutions headquartered in Atlanta one could argue that practically everyone working in public health internationally would know about Atlanta. Next month the AmPublic Health Assoc. will have their annual meeting at the Ga. Convention Center with 25 K + attendees. If you are working in the public health sector you know Atlanta. So what? If you work in the International Dance community, you may know little of Atlanta. Indeed, international baristas may be very unfamiliar with the city.

[pizzaguy]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think this a bit of American navel gazing concerning racial issues. While this may be very important locally and even nationally and deserves kudos, at an international level it is not terribly relevant.

Black American culture is internationally relevant and has been for quite some time.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I thought that was San Diego.

Depends on the metric. San Diego has highest volume of traffic. Detroit is the highest in terms of commercial traffic. But I don't think this is a useful metric for measuring how "international" they are, since they are both part of urbanized areas that stretch across international borders.

[mhays]

Maybe it'll get to the Chicago level someday. But for now:

It's has a lot of TV shows but nothing like LA's cultural profile, in size or type. This takes decades to build, and it's also about being connected to certain types. No beach, no image for stars or captains of entertainment industries.

The huge airport and business travel presence haven't translated into (my perception) that people go to Atlanta as pleasure tourists unless they're from the South. Densification and growth in entertainment should help over time. Densification's results would be an easier sell minus the parking podiums. It'll go well with the narrow curvy streets and tree canopy however.

Edit: Global health is certainly a plus, and known as a core industry. It's probably not at the level of Houston we have a problem, and it's shared with other cities to some extent, but it's important.

Regarding other cities, Detroit is still synonymous with the auto industry, much like LA is with movies even if its share has decreased. And San Francisco is absolutely connected to tech...suburbs tend to accrue to the core city.

[initiald]

Growing up in the southeast, Atlanta is a fairly young city compared to Chicago, NY or LA. This is the case with most southeast cities, which is also why they lack good grid systems when you get outside of the immediate downtown.

Atlanta was a railroad terminus, and much was destroyed in the civil war. By then many midwest and northeast cities were well established. It is not on a navigable waterway. One thing it (like many southeast cities) had was land, so sprawl happened. However, the city is split between counties and much of what is considered Atlanta is outside the city, and there isn't a lot of municipal control plus the state is pretty hostile to Atlanta because it is dominated by rural politicians.

That said, the city still has been growing rapidly. If you look at skyline shots from 10 years ago much of the city looks transformed. This is everything that was built in just the last 10 years in midtown Atlanta: