Place des Peuples [61-77 rue Laurier] | 200m & ?m | 55 & 35 fl | Cancelled

[J.OT13]

As much as I am opposed to the project as a whole, I would be slightly less offended with the original proposal than the feather/hunting knives Cardinal version.

[Aylmer]

That's also how I feel about it.

[waterloowarrior]

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1040910/brigil-quartier-musee-gatineau-patrimoine-tours

[Harley613]

Trouble for this one :

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/10/05/gati...opers-threats-to-move-projects-to-ottawa

Gatineau mayor rejects developer's 'threats' to move projects to Ottawa

A running spat over two proposed condo towers in Gatineau has crossed the provincial border, with the head of Brigil Construction saying Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson is in his corner.

Brigil wants to build two towers in a heritage district near the Museum of History. One would be 55 stories, the other 35.

No way, says Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin, who argues the towers would be fine somewhere else, but not among these narrow streets and historic homes.

The city has proposed protected heritage status for the entire Museum District, a neighbourhood of narrow streets and old houses just north of Place du Portage and Gatineau City Hall.

The district has about 50 buildings, including the Collège Saint-Joseph et the former presbytery of Notre-Dame-de-Grâce Church. Many date from soon after the Great Fire of 1900.

Last week, a business group called Essor centre-ville (Downtown progress) released an “economic analysis” that contended extending heritage status to the whole district would be “harmful” to the city.

On Wednesday, Brigil president Gilles Desjardins took the political tussle to the radio airwaves.

In an interview on 104.7 FM he said Watson regularly suggests that he shift his work to Ottawa “to build beautiful things.”

And he says Watson has expressed thanks to Pedneaud-Jobin for “blocking” everything Brigil wants to do in Gatineau because it brings Brigil projects into Ottawa instead.

Watson’s office wasn’t immediately available for comment or confirmation.

But Pedneaud-Jobin has weighed in. He responded, also on 104.7 FM, to say that he won’t give in to the threat of moving construction projects to Ottawa.

“For months and months he (Desjardins) has made this kind of threat. I don’t give in to threats,” he said.

“We are not building a project of that size in a heritage neighbourhood.”

On Tuesday, Gatineau’s council referred the $400-million Place du Peuple condo tower issue to city staff to present a report by the end of January, well after the Nov. 5 election.

[email protected]

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Trouble for this one :

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/10/05/gati...opers-threats-to-move-projects-to-ottawa

Gatineau mayor rejects developer's 'threats' to move projects to Ottawa

A running spat over two proposed condo towers in Gatineau has crossed the provincial border, with the head of Brigil Construction saying Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson is in his corner.

Brigil wants to build two towers in a heritage district near the Museum of History. One would be 55 stories, the other 35.

No way, says Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin, who argues the towers would be fine somewhere else, but not among these narrow streets and historic homes.

The city has proposed protected heritage status for the entire Museum District, a neighbourhood of narrow streets and old houses just north of Place du Portage and Gatineau City Hall.

The district has about 50 buildings, including the Collège Saint-Joseph et the former presbytery of Notre-Dame-de-Grâce Church. Many date from soon after the Great Fire of 1900.

Last week, a business group called Essor centre-ville (Downtown progress) released an “economic analysis” that contended extending heritage status to the whole district would be “harmful” to the city.

On Wednesday, Brigil president Gilles Desjardins took the political tussle to the radio airwaves.

In an interview on 104.7 FM he said Watson regularly suggests that he shift his work to Ottawa “to build beautiful things.”

And he says Watson has expressed thanks to Pedneaud-Jobin for “blocking” everything Brigil wants to do in Gatineau because it brings Brigil projects into Ottawa instead.

Watson’s office wasn’t immediately available for comment or confirmation.

But Pedneaud-Jobin has weighed in. He responded, also on 104.7 FM, to say that he won’t give in to the threat of moving construction projects to Ottawa.

“For months and months he (Desjardins) has made this kind of threat. I don’t give in to threats,” he said.

“We are not building a project of that size in a heritage neighbourhood.”

On Tuesday, Gatineau’s council referred the $400-million Place du Peuple condo tower issue to city staff to present a report by the end of January, well after the Nov. 5 election.

[email protected]

Someone told me the other day that that study was funded by the proponents of the project. True?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Someone told me the other day that that study was funded by the proponents of the project. True?

Yes.

Anyway I am sure Jim Watson appreciates being drawn into this.

[FFX-ME]

Gatineau mayor rejects developer's 'threats' to move projects to Ottawa
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...opers-threats-to-move-projects-to-ottawa

A running spat over two proposed condo towers in Gatineau has crossed the provincial border, with the head of Brigil Construction saying Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson is in his corner.

Brigil wants to build two towers in a heritage district near the Museum of History. One would be 55 storeys, the other 35.

No way, says Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin, who argues the towers would be fine somewhere else, but not among these narrow streets and historic homes.

The city has proposed protected heritage status for the entire Museum District, a neighbourhood of narrow streets and old houses just north of Place du Portage and Gatineau City Hall.

The district has about 50 buildings, including the Collège Saint-Joseph and the former presbytery of Notre-Dame-de-Grâce Church. Many date from soon after the Great Fire of 1900.


Last week, a business group called Essor centre-ville (Downtown progress) released an “economic analysis” that contended extending heritage status to the whole district would be “harmful” to the city.

On Wednesday, Brigil president Gilles Desjardins took the political tussle to the radio airwaves.

In an interview on 104.7 FM, he said Watson regularly suggests he shift his work to Ottawa “to build beautiful things.”

And he says Watson has expressed thanks to Pedneaud-Jobin for “blocking” everything Brigil wants to do in Gatineau because it brings Brigil projects into Ottawa instead.

Then Pedneaud-Jobin weighed in. He responded, also on 104.7 FM, to say he won’t give in to the threat of moving construction projects to Ottawa.

“For months and months he (Desjardins) has made this kind of threat. I don’t give in to threats,” he said.

“We are not building a project of that size in a heritage neighbourhood.”

On Tuesday, Gatineau’s council referred the $400-million Place du Peuple condo tower issue to city staff to present a report by the end of January, well after the Nov. 5 election.

Meanwhile Jim Watson is keeping out of the squabble. His office issued a short statement that the mayor “does not comment on municipal elections in other jurisdictions.”

As well, a spokeswoman for the mayor said Watson has never suggested that Brigil move its operation to Ottawa.

Maybe we should move this thread over to the Ottawa section

[FFX-ME]

Weird, it looks like the same article was published in both the Sun and the Citizen

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Weird, it looks like the same article was published in both the Sun and the Citizen

They're the same organization/paper now.

[Harley613]

The Gatineau Mayor is a moron. I can't believe he is stonewalling a centerpiece like this under the guise of protecting Hull's historical core. Hull is a pretty much a shithole and this development would take it from zero to hero in a generation. If they had to tear down something remarkable to build it I would understand, but turning this down because it would be some kind of unwelcome juxtaposition is sheer idiocy.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The Gatineau Mayor is a moron. I can't believe he is stonewalling a centerpiece like this under the guise of protecting Hull's historical core. Hull is a pretty much a shithole and this development would take it from zero to hero in a generation. If they had to tear down something remarkable to build it I would understand, but turning this down because it would be some kind of unwelcome juxtaposition is sheer idiocy.

I'm not sold on this either. I guess that makes me a moron too?

[Harley613]

'The Gatineau Mayor is a moron. I can't believe he is stonewalling a centerpiece like this under the guise of protecting Hull's historical core'

Is that the reason you are not sold on it?

[Aylmer]

I'm not certain that these towers would take Hull from 'zero to hero'. From a distance, the towers would certainly look impressive, but Hull is full of buildings that look great from afar but which don't excel at street level or at fostering the kind of activity which makes a place interesting.

And from that perspective, these towers fall somewhat flat. Remember, it's not a question of having these condo units in Hull or not, but rather a question of whether those units will be concentrated in this one project or spread over a number of building projects throughout the downtown area. I think that having a large number of smaller projects would go much further in spreading the benefits of development over all of Hull; filling in 'gaps' in the built environment, bringing more activity (especially ground-oriented activity which only really exists for the first 4-5 storeys) to more areas downtown, and bringing more diverse unit types.
On the other hand, concentrating the same number of units into one or two large towers means that Hull goes from being a dead neighbourhood of parking lots into a dead neighbourhood of parking lots and a nice tower.

So even if we look beyond Brigil's distasteful tactics, I just don't think that this is a desirable project for downtown. Not because it would 'destroy a heritage community - that's an overblown concern - but because it would deprive Hull of the smaller projects which would be more beneficial.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

...buildings that look great from afar but which don't excel at street level or at fostering the kind of activity which makes a place interesting. ...

Makes me think of those 4 Claridge towers on Rideau Street.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'm not certain that these towers would take Hull from 'zero to hero'. From a distance, the towers would certainly look impressive, but Hull is full of buildings that look great from afar but which don't excel at street level or at fostering the kind of activity which makes a place interesting.

And from that perspective, these towers fall somewhat flat. Remember, it's not a question of having these condo units in Hull or not, but rather a question of whether those units will be concentrated in this one project or spread over a number of building projects throughout the downtown area. I think that having a large number of smaller projects would go much further in spreading the benefits of development over all of Hull; filling in 'gaps' in the built environment, bringing more activity (especially ground-oriented activity which only really exists for the first 4-5 storeys) to more areas downtown, and bringing more diverse unit types.
On the other hand, concentrating the same number of units into one or two large towers means that Hull goes from being a dead neighbourhood of parking lots into a dead neighbourhood of parking lots and a nice tower.

So even if we look beyond Brigil's distasteful tactics, I just don't think that this is a desirable project for downtown. Not because it would 'destroy a heritage community - that's an overblown concern - but because it would deprive Hull of the smaller projects which would be more beneficial.

These are good points though there is also an economic balancing act to take into account.

While there is one train of thought that suggests that Brigil's towers will scoop up a huge chunk of condo market demand into two towers in a small space, there is no guarantee that the absence of towers will simply spread out that demand more evenly in smaller projects across the Vieux-Hull.

Another thing is that in terms of land costs, building X units on Y m2 of land is arguably more cost-efficient than building X units on YYYY m2 of land (all of which the developer(s) has or have to buy.

[Aylmer]

Although keep in mind that land is cheap in Hull, so unlike more expensive areas, there isn't a huge economic pressure to minimize building footprints. We also have to keep in mind that a 4-storey walk-up is much cheaper to build than a tower, which requires elevators, and an expensive reinforced steel structure as opposed to a simpler wood-frame construction. I don't have the expertise to make an estimation, but I think it would be conceivable to argue that in Hull's context, many small projects would actually be less expensive than a couple of towers.

[khabibulin]

So I notice that the Brigil sales centre for this project now has large signs out front advertising a Gatineau Sports Museum. More threats from Brigil, or cross marketing to get people into a smaller sales centre?

[enrigue8]

For me ,the the mayor of Gatineau is a big moron.
There's nothing to preserve in the old Hull.
This project will make the city sunshine like never before.
The city of Hull has a big chance to enter into the modernity.
Even magnificent cities like Toronto or Montreal would be happy
to have something like that in their city.
If Hull misses this chance,Hull will be a retarded and underdevlopped
city forever. Do you want this guys ?

[FFX-ME]

I agree. This is a great project and it would be a shame if it was blocked. This is waaayyyy better than the median of what gets built in Ottawa.

[MoreTrains]

In terms of height over breadth, I choose height every time. Especially in the case of a downtown core, height must be the primary objective. It reduces the overall cost to the municipality in terms of taxes v. infrastructure and also increases density which we all agree is needed for effective efficient transit.

The future, if this is built, would include more towers. There is always a requirement for somebody to pull the trigger, so if not Brigil with this, than who?