PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[1487]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Strawberry mansion is next !

they need to add some useful retail in BT first. Lots of housing, virtually no useful amenities.

[New2Fishtown]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ilding-sold-for-apartments-20171005.html

Broad and Arch - 1
Market East - 0

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

I like the old name better too. Of course it's still Delaware Ave and Wanamakers to me, etc.

I understand why they think rebranding is necessary, but I think they're off. Nostalgia runs deep and I think most people would prefer to shop at "The Gallery" after a renovation rather than whatever Any City USA name they've settled on.

And yeah, it's time just make Delaware Avenue the official name again.

[iheartphilly]

The Gallery connotes a dump and 'has been' shopping venue. Re-naming it is smart. Develop a new brand with a new look as much as the budget allows (lol) for Philly shoppers and visitors that exudes a positive vibe (i.e., feel good) as part of their experience.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ilding-sold-for-apartments-20171005.html

Broad and Arch - 1
Market East - 0

Head, meet desk.

[Knight Hospitaller]

.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Boku

Head, meet desk.

not sure why anyone is surprised- they would never move to a location that isn't easily accessible by public transportation.

[Knight Hospitaller]

It's not like the city has a nice vacant building near the el in W. Philly....

[1487]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

It's not like the city has a nice vacant building near the el in W. Philly....

The state could care less, especially if the numbers don't work for them. City isn't looking to lease 4601- they are looking to sell it to a 3rd party to complete for their own use. This is moving from one rental site to another. I'd think they got a good rate for something at 7th and market- not really prime territory right now.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Have you been to their office? Lobby looks like it was designed by trump in the early 80s.

Lol, i was going to say the exact same thing. You almost get the faint whiff of cigarette smoke too when you step off the elevator into the time warp that is PREIT. The place is a total throwback to the Greed-is-Good 80s style of marble and polished brass.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by 1487

The state could care less, especially if the numbers don't work for them. City isn't looking to lease 4601- they are looking to sell it to a 3rd party to complete for their own use. This is moving from one rental site to another. I'd think they got a good rate for something at 7th and market- not really prime territory right now.

They were never going to move to 4601, but the courts are run at the county level, not state, FYI. I'm pretty sure that all of the FJD's funding comes directly from the city anyway (like the public defenders).

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ilding-sold-for-apartments-20171005.html

Broad and Arch - 1
Market East - 0

I don't see the problem. I'm happy to see the Market East building get some tenants, and the Arch Street building will do well as apartments.

[SEFTA]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

What is being built at the 1528 Cherry Site? There's heavy construction going on...

Could it be this?
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=210629

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Has anybody been in Brewerytown recently? The neighborhood is on fire! There's a ton of new construction and rehabs and it's gotten as far north as Athletic Square and as far east as 25th & Thompson. Brewerytown as a whole is amazingly intact, too, and the Girard Avenue retail corridor has really filled in as well.

I'm going to have to make a trip down there now, as I haven't been around those parts since July! I'm so glad to hear that. Brewerytown is a neighborhood with amazing bones and a ton of potential. It's also a neighborhood I'm considering moving to after I graduate from Temple in May.

Templetown is also beginning to see some non-student development stemming from all the action going on in Brewerytown and Francisville! There are all kinds of projects popping up along Girard Avenue. The 19th, Ridge, and S. College Avenue triangle has a development plan, new homes popped up at 19th and Thompson this summer, N. College Avenue and Ingersoll Street have new homes along them, and I've been watching a few things pop up on 17th and 18th Street!

Originally Posted by Larry King

Strawberry mansion is next !

I completely agree with you! In my estimation, the area bounded by Cecil B. Moore, Diamond, 29th, and 33rd is going to be the very first part to see the revitalization wave. There are some beautiful brownstones on Diamond Street, and they would be quickly snagged up once the demand is there. Strawberry Mansion, especially by 33rd Street, could easily become a family-oriented area as well. If I had a family, I would sure as hell be happy to rent or own a home next to Fairmount Park!

[1487]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

They were never going to move to 4601, but the courts are run at the county level, not state, FYI. I'm pretty sure that all of the FJD's funding comes directly from the city anyway (like the public defenders).

No, courts are under the state even though Philly funds it's courts unlike other counties. Local elected officials (aside from judges) have no control over the courts. Even within city hall the FJD is treated as a tenant.

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I don't see the problem. I'm happy to see the Market East building get some tenants, and the Arch Street building will do well as apartments.

I should clarify that I don't personally view it as a problem. The wealthy suburban brokers in my office think it's the downfall of mankind as they think the current location (1400 block of Arch) is the "nastiest in the city." The simple truth is that this tenant means long long lines of people awaiting court hearings/sentencings. At the 1401 location, they crowd most of the sidewalk, are often miserable (as anyone would be awaiting an appointment in court), can break it into screaming arguments, are smoking various things all across the sidewalk, etc. There are often sheriff's buses (retrofitted schoolbuses for prisoners...oh the irony, don't get me started on the state of criminal justice and education in this country) sitting outside waiting to load up and take people away. Long story short, some people don't like acknowledging that this is a reality for many people in this country, and would rather see such a facility somehow hidden from public view. I take issue with that, but if you live a life of sufficient privilege to worry only about how such an operation makes YOU feel or makes your friends/family feel as you show them around town or walk from cocktails to dinner, then that's a stance you can take.

Practically speaking, it is a 9-5 operation, so there are several hours of the day (all daytime hours) where crowds of people gather out of a facility like this, and they are an unavoidable reminder of many things that make many people uncomfortable: questions of race, class, criminal justice, poverty, "society's woes", unequal distribution of wealth/opportunity etc, etc.

So all that said, a use like this obviously has to go somewhere, and if you think about this as an unfortunate but very necessary service of the government, then it should really go in a maximally accessible location, which means it would've/should've wound up somewhere along the major spines of our transit system. So from a service/equity/service provision standpoint, both its current and future locations are very appropriate. In a future where Market East is chock full of flashing billboards and thousands of shoppers veering between different mixed use complexes, will it feel like an anomaly and a surprising and sudden change in the environment? Yes. Can a densely packed, activity filled corridor absorb such a use without being ruined? Absolutely.

[1487]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

I should clarify that I don't personally view it as a problem. The wealthy suburban brokers in my office think it's the downfall of mankind as they think the current location (1400 block of Arch) is the "nastiest in the city." The simple truth is that this tenant means long long lines of people awaiting court hearings/sentencings. At the 1401 location, they crowd most of the sidewalk, are often miserable (as anyone would be awaiting an appointment in court), can break it into screaming arguments, are smoking various things all across the sidewalk, etc. There are often sheriff's buses (retrofitted schoolbuses for prisoners...oh the irony, don't get me started on the state of criminal justice and education in this country) sitting outside waiting to load up and take people away. Long story short, some people don't like acknowledging that this is a reality for many people in this country, and would rather see such a facility somehow hidden from public view. I take issue with that, but if you live a life of sufficient privilege to worry only about how such an operation makes YOU feel or makes your friends/family feel as you show them around town or walk from cocktails to dinner, then that's a stance you can take.

Practically speaking, it is a 9-5 operation, so there are several hours of the day (all daytime hours) where crowds of people gather out of a facility like this, and they are an unavoidable reminder of many things that make many people uncomfortable: questions of race, class, criminal justice, poverty, "society's woes", unequal distribution of wealth/opportunity etc, etc.

So all that said, a use like this obviously has to go somewhere, and if you think about this as an unfortunate but very necessary service of the government, then it should really go in a maximally accessible location, which means it would've/should've wound up somewhere along the major spines of our transit system. So from a service/equity/service provision standpoint, both its current and future locations are very appropriate. In a future where Market East is chock full of flashing billboards and thousands of shoppers veering between different mixed use complexes, will it feel like an anomaly and a surprising and sudden change in the environment? Yes. Can a densely packed, activity filled corridor absorb such a use without being ruined? Absolutely.

I used to walk by there a lot. People would often by outside smoking and waiting and they are people that upscale CC folks don't want to see or acknowledge live in Philly. Prison buses go to CJC, not to this facility. This is where people get monitored while on probation. I agree that from the standpoint of trying to appease tourists and suburbanites it's not ideal to see folks from the underclass on a major CC sidewalk- but I most definitely did not see fighting, arguing or anything related when going past there. Ever.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 1487

I used to walk by there a lot. People would often by outside smoking and waiting and they are people that upscale CC folks don't want to see or acknowledge live in Philly. Prison buses go to CJC, not to this facility. This is where people get monitored while on probation. I agree that from the standpoint of trying to appease tourists and suburbanites it's not ideal to see folks from the underclass on a major CC sidewalk- but I most definitely did not see fighting, arguing or anything related when going past there. Ever.

Well that's good. Regardless, you're taking a population that the city didn't want in front of tourists in CC and putting them along the route where more tourists traverse, arguably, more than anywhere - en route to Independence Hall.

This is a step back for Market East and Old City, if you ask me.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Well that's good. Regardless, you're taking a population that the city didn't want in front of tourists in CC and putting them along the route where more tourists traverse, arguably, more than anywhere - en route to Independence Hall.

This is a step back for Market East and Old City, if you ask me.

well it's not 5th and market and I don't know that the average tourist walks to Independence Hall in the first place. Not to mention there are a whole lot of folks already visible on market east that the visitor's bureau would rather not see hanging around the CBD. One of the issues with the 1401 Arch location is that there isn't a ton of pedestrian traffic there so it was easy for the probation folks to sort of take over the real estate outside the building. Market is is busier and one would hope that with a new lease and new design they can address some of the issues to reduce the amount of loitering outdoors.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

I should clarify that I don't personally view it as a problem. The wealthy suburban brokers in my office think it's the downfall of mankind as they think the current location (1400 block of Arch) is the "nastiest in the city." The simple truth is that this tenant means long long lines of people awaiting court hearings/sentencings. At the 1401 location, they crowd most of the sidewalk, are often miserable (as anyone would be awaiting an appointment in court), can break it into screaming arguments, are smoking various things all across the sidewalk, etc. There are often sheriff's buses (retrofitted schoolbuses for prisoners...oh the irony, don't get me started on the state of criminal justice and education in this country) sitting outside waiting to load up and take people away. Long story short, some people don't like acknowledging that this is a reality for many people in this country, and would rather see such a facility somehow hidden from public view. I take issue with that, but if you live a life of sufficient privilege to worry only about how such an operation makes YOU feel or makes your friends/family feel as you show them around town or walk from cocktails to dinner, then that's a stance you can take.

Practically speaking, it is a 9-5 operation, so there are several hours of the day (all daytime hours) where crowds of people gather out of a facility like this, and they are an unavoidable reminder of many things that make many people uncomfortable: questions of race, class, criminal justice, poverty, "society's woes", unequal distribution of wealth/opportunity etc, etc.

So all that said, a use like this obviously has to go somewhere, and if you think about this as an unfortunate but very necessary service of the government, then it should really go in a maximally accessible location, which means it would've/should've wound up somewhere along the major spines of our transit system. So from a service/equity/service provision standpoint, both its current and future locations are very appropriate. In a future where Market East is chock full of flashing billboards and thousands of shoppers veering between different mixed use complexes, will it feel like an anomaly and a surprising and sudden change in the environment? Yes. Can a densely packed, activity filled corridor absorb such a use without being ruined? Absolutely.

Ah. I see. That makes sense. I was not really thinking of the nature of this entity