The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Yes, but 11 km of Eglinton runs underground. Not fair, to compare. This is an underground line built in some of the most densely populated parts of the city outside the main core and Yorkville.

What about Queen's Quay?

Sorry, unless it is all grade separated, it is not rapid in this forum. Otherwise Toronto has a system that no other city can touch.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What about Queen's Quay?

Sorry, unless it is all grade separated, it is not rapid in this forum. Otherwise Toronto has a system that no other city can touch.

Ok, well I wasn't really getting into how you classify it. 11 km of underground rail transit in the midtown core will be transformative, not to mention efficent in core transport.I mean I really can't think of another city in Canada outside of Toronto itself, that has an underground rail line of that length under construction or even planned? As well you can already see Yonge and Eglinton is being massively redeveloped hulking skyscrapers 200 meters being planned and one near 200 meter tower about halfway up and dozens of smaller (for Toronto) towers underway will create a core unto itself before this line even opens. And I believe the tunneled stations are built to handle rapid expansion if demand dictates.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What about Queen's Quay?

Sorry, unless it is all grade separated, it is not rapid in this forum. Otherwise Toronto has a system that no other city can touch.

What do you consider Calgary's LRT then? It approaches subway speed on much of is stretch and top signal priority and rail barriers to not impede on its speed. Toronto could get the same on Eglinton buy city start won't commit to real signal priority, has too many stations, and they won't install rail barriers. At minimum Eglinton should run as fast as the Queen 501 on the separated stretch in the west end that approaches Humber Loop.

[Bobert]

Originally Posted by Doady

The Eglinton corridor in Toronto should be more like King George Blvd in Surrey? Seriously?

Maybe that's an ideal streetscape to you, but maybe you can forgive people of Toronto if they have other ideas. As someone in Mississauga, I will be fine with Hurontario LRT also.

Is this okay?

The images linked for KGB are in a terrible zoning area. It's the transition between port/industrial river lands to low density commercial. Also it's on a grade where not much will ever be built I assume.

Brentwood in Burnaby is a great example of where the elevated line fits well themeatically. The google maps picture is also a bit outdated, there's been a huge development boom there.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Because they would also have to double track it. Considering the 2006 N/S plan, double track electric lrt classic, was around 1 billion (downtown surface segment included) and the current diesel extension is estimated to be around 700 million, it would likely cost close to 2 billion for a proper double track, electrified rail to the south suburbs and the airport.

What the city council is trying to do is buy votes by extending rail as far as possible, and they can do that with diesel trains on existing rail lines.

I think they should have completely dropped the Trillium extension and put the money towards extending the Confederation to Kanata. Do it right and rebuild the Trillium double track electric when the money is available in 10, 20 years.

At this point, they should just abandon the Trillium Line expansion permanently and extend the southeast Transitway southward and to the airport. Already, part of this corridor has been converted to a Transitway in Barrhaven and across the Vimy Bridge. Why not offer the flexibility that a Transitway offers since the Trillium Line will dump passenger way west of downtown and with this expansion will never be double tracked. We are flushing money down the toilet with a very poorly thought out Phase 2. To illustrate how poorly thought out it is, many bus routes that would normally connect to the Trillium Line are being extended to dump passengers onto the Confederation Line instead. The Trillium Line does not offer service to downtown nor adequate frequency and does not have the capacity to properly serve the south part of the city.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Nah, it wasn't obvious.

p.s. The cities I listed have better catchment for their metros than Toronto. You're just giving your opinion. As usual.

How was it not obvious? It's a Canada forum. We compare almost exclusively Canada systems. I mentioned right afterwards how Canada's systems follow the modern trend of higher speeds with longer station distances. It's not me. It's you. Just admit it.

P.S. Same to you.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

How was it not obvious? It's a Canada forum. We compare almost exclusively Canada systems. I mentioned right afterwards how Canada's systems follow the modern trend of higher speeds with longer station distances. It's not me. It's you. Just admit it.

P.S. Same to you.

Nah, I can't be expected to know what you're thinking, and seeing as how I give examples and you do not, it's you.

Anyway, a bit of a step in the right direction for TO - semi fare-integration between GO/UPX and TTC, coming into effect in December. This is starting to lay the groundwork for the eventual introduction of RER or SmartTrack or whatever the heck name we use and set of upgraded and infilled lines we end up with. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-go-fare-integration-smarttrack-1.4325910

[WhipperSnapper]

It was staring at you in the face. You just missed it. Continuing with this is only making you look foolish.

Nice change in trajectory. Unfortunately, it's just a list of city names. It doesn't stand as much of an example.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It was staring at you in the face. You just missed it. Continuing with this is only making you look foolish.

Nice change in trajectory. Unfortunately, it's just a list of city names. It doesn't stand as much of an example.

Look dude, I'm not going to take your viewpoint or agree with you on something just because you tell me to. I suspect everyone else here feels the same way. I don't know what you're thinking - only you do. That's all there is to it.

You seem to just want to pick a fight, but these forums are meant for all of us to post our ideas, news, and pics, not just you.
Apart from all of your attacks, you have some good urban planning knowledge, so why don't you share that, and not attack everyone's posts and always try to have the last word? If you want to call me names or whatever, please just PM me, and spare everyone else here the temper tantrum.

In any case, I was steering the conversation back to some factual info (fare integration).

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What city isn't starved for stations within walking distance? Canada is full of modern, hybrid commuter based lines with station distances suited for feeder buses or park and ride.

I understand they are slow and unreliable but, you can't simply ignore the streetcar network when talking about Toronto's subway system. The choice was made to keep them long ago. If not, some sort of rapid rail system would surely have been built in the streetcar system coverage area. Coverage would still suck in the suburban areas of the northern 416 but, not much different elsewhere. (Vancouver may be the exception)

Yep. People on this forum like to conveniently ignore Toronto's 83 km streetcar system when comparing transit in Canadian cities because it would provide a bit of an x-factor in Toronto's favour. St. Clair, Spadina, and Queens Quay all run on their own ROW it's not like all the streetcar lines are in mixed traffic and even still, mixed traffic or not, the ride experience of a streetcar far exceeds any bus.

Toronto's core as we know is extensively serviced by streetcar. No doubt a factor in lack of rapid transit coverage.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

Yep. People on this forum like to conveniently ignore Toronto's 83 km streetcar system when comparing transit in Canadian cities because it would provide a bit of an x-factor in Toronto's favour. St. Clair, Spadina, and Queens Quay all run on their own ROW it's not like all the streetcar lines are in mixed traffic and even still, mixed traffic or not, the ride experience of a streetcar far exceeds any bus.

Toronto's core as we know is extensively serviced by streetcar. No doubt a factor in lack of rapid transit coverage.

Well the discussion in the last few days has been about rapid transit for the most part. People ignore streetcars in these discussions because they're simply not rapid transit. But you're right that the urge to protect streetcars is a big part of the reason that there's been zero subway expansion downtown in 51 years. In the meantime the population has skyrocketed. Central Toronto may be extensively serviced by streetcars, but on the busiest routes they're grossly inadequate for the job.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Look dude, I'm not going to take your viewpoint or agree with you on something just because you tell me to. I suspect everyone else here feels the same way. I don't know what you're thinking - only you do. That's all there is to it.

You seem to just want to pick a fight, but these forums are meant for all of us to post our ideas, news, and pics, not just you.
Apart from all of your attacks, you have some good urban planning knowledge, so why don't you share that, and not attack everyone's posts and always try to have the last word? If you want to call me names or whatever, please just PM me, and spare everyone else here the temper tantrum.

In any case, I was steering the conversation back to some factual info (fare integration).

I don't expect you to accept my viewpoint. I'm just having fun making you look foolish to everyone that understood what I meant without having extra sensory perception. I haven't call you a name and my temper is in check

LOL You love fighting yourself. It's all over your post history. Half of your posts are bickering or bitching about me.

No. Quoting me and replying to me is not how you steer a conservation.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Well the discussion in the last few days has been about rapid transit for the most part. People ignore streetcars in these discussions because they're simply not rapid transit. But you're right that the urge to protect streetcars is a big part of the reason that there's been zero subway expansion downtown in 51 years. In the meantime the population has skyrocketed. Central Toronto may be extensively serviced by streetcars, but on the busiest routes they're grossly inadequate for the job.

The discussion is always about rapid transit from comparing the number of kilometres/lines to the average speed to underground, grade, or above ground. It doesn't give you the whole picture. Sure they are slow (super slow to the hybrid lrt lines). Sure buses need to be on stand by given the fragility of the network to traffic accidents and/or outages. Toronto's transit system wouldn't function without them. They count for something.

There are simple changes the TTC could make to make them faster by incorporating ideas of a modern LRT. Dump the stops that are as close as 100 metres from each other for station every 400 to 500 metres that don't necessarily coincide with every signaled intersection. People can walk to the transfer points for bus routes that aren't in high demand. This will also frustrate drivers encouraging them to look for alternative routes. I know the west is different however, going east, traffic in non issue compared to having to stop every minute for one person to board or disembark.

[1overcosc]

What's the status of that plan to make King Street a transit-priority street? Would massively help the streetcar line there.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I don't expect you to accept my viewpoint. I'm just having fun making you look foolish to everyone that understood what I meant without having extra sensory perception. I haven't call you a name and my temper is in check

LOL You love fighting yourself. It's all over your post history. Half of your posts are bickering or bitching about me.

No. Quoting me and replying to me is not how you steer a conservation.

Yep, you expect me to accept your viewpoint. That's why you can't let the issue go and say things like "admit it". I am not backing down, because I often feel compelled to point out when you're bullying others. Please take a look at your own post history - you just called another forumer's posts "fucking pathetic and stupid", which was totally uncalled for in the conversation.
Put it this way, do you think you could ever go to an SSP meet-up with the things you say to others?

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

What's the status of that plan to make King Street a transit-priority street? Would massively help the streetcar line there.

I was just wondering this too. After the vote to go ahead with the priority measures, they said that October would be the launch. Is anything happening at ground level yet?

[SaskOttaLoo]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Nah, I can't be expected to know what you're thinking, and seeing as how I give examples and you do not, it's you.

Anyway, a bit of a step in the right direction for TO - semi fare-integration between GO/UPX and TTC, coming into effect in December. This is starting to lay the groundwork for the eventual introduction of RER or SmartTrack or whatever the heck name we use and set of upgraded and infilled lines we end up with. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-go-fare-integration-smarttrack-1.4325910

Given that the TTC's biggest issue from my perspective is inadequate capacity on line 1, I find it surprising that they're giving up revenue (which I consider it to be even if the province pays - the money could have been used for something else). I think it would have been better spent on maintenance, new buses, starting to pay for the DRL, etc.

[Innsertnamehere]

They have been installing advance right hand turn signals at a few spots along King, the early work has started.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo

Given that the TTC's biggest issue from my perspective is inadequate capacity on line 1, I find it surprising that they're giving up revenue (which I consider it to be even if the province pays - the money could have been used for something else). I think it would have been better spent on maintenance, new buses, starting to pay for the DRL, etc.

Yes, that's the downside for sure, although I had previously heard (obviously unrealized) rumours of Metrolinx muscling the TTC into including a completely free trip with each ride on GO, which made me wonder if the two agencies would be splitting the loss (i.e. GO transfers 50% of the TTC fare back to the TTC). I guess that it's not going to end up being as "fair" as that.

Here in Sydney, we were just given pretty much the same deal. All modes of transit are purchased on an "Opal" (Presto) card, and all services are tap on tap off. If you transfer from one mode of transit to another, you now get a $2 discount on the 2nd fare. This has ended up being quite popular and transit ridership is up quite a bit, as the system prior to integration forced everyone to carry separate paper tickets for each mode! One particular trip I made required my fortnightly train ticket with named stations, a 10 trip bus ticket, a ferry ticket and a separate train ticket that allowed me to board at a station different from the two printed on my fortnightly ticket. This meant that in general, people didn't switch modes nor did they use transit much outside of commuting to/from work - you were either a bus, a rail, or a ferry passenger.

So I think it's crucial that the GTA start getting the region used to being multi-modal - GO trains/RER should be (almost) as much for urbanites as they are for suburbanites, so I hope a discount will soon be applied in the opposite direction too.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

They have been installing advance right hand turn signals at a few spots along King, the early work has started.

Thanks for the update