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  #441  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 2:39 AM
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Most of DND's downtown presence is staying. It's a lot of the other suburban sites that are being consolidated into the Moodie location. It's a shame because the downtown HQ would make for an awesome redevelopment.
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  #442  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
DND is not moving out of their current Colonel By Headquarters.
That really sucks
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  #443  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 6:22 AM
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I work in this industry and can assure you that the EY centre is not really the core issue. Most (not all) of the clients at the EY centre run tradeshows for consumers that run on extremely tight budgets. They can't afford the rates being charged at the Shaw Centre. This is why many ran their shows at Lansdowne before. There are certainly a few shows at the EY, or that have moved to the EY that have the budget for the Shaw centre but the shaw centre does not have adequate contiguous floorspace for large scale exhibitions and some of these clients. This is one prime factor in them losing big conventions.

The shaw centre is a great facility, but it loses business time and again for a few reasons.
1. It isn't quite big enough to run certain shows. 2. Our tier 2 airport and lack of direct air connections mean they lose much international business to Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver (known as MTV in the industry). Conference Organizers want direct connections. Ottawa is great for that in the Canadian market, but severely lacking for international delegates. 3. We don't have enough available hotel rooms connected to the Shaw centre. Their hotel partner, the Westin has quite a bit of exhibit floorspace itself and its rooms are often full with other business, so that partnership isn't an ideal one. They need a large connected hotel to that facility that will make a better strategic partner. Conference Organizers prefer to deal with as few hotels as possible, in Ottawa's case, they are dealing with 4+ hotels because of availability issues.

The shaw centre (IMHO) needs to really focus on the canadian market, canadian associations, canadian corporate business and high end public events and work selling those sectors to the max. I know they are closing some good international business too, One Young World was a good example. However, the 3 big cities are closing deals 10 times the size and I think Ottawa really needs to market where they have the highest chance of success.

I look at other markets like Winnipeg. Their tourism bureau and convention centre manage to close a tonne of business, they are in this city all the time marketing the Canadian Association Market and frankly Ottawa is a far better destination for a conference. They need to be going head to head with cities like that.

All this being said, there are very good people working to bring conventions to Ottawa and lots of successes. Their budgeted numbers were probably a bit lofty to start but I really think they need to hustle certain markets more and others less.
You make a lot of good points all of which should have been well known when the decision was taken to build the Shaw Centre. Too many second tier cities chasing the same business. When Halifax finishes its convention centre there will be even more competition.
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  #444  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 9:25 AM
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Most of DND's downtown presence is staying. It's a lot of the other suburban sites that are being consolidated into the Moodie location. It's a shame because the downtown HQ would make for an awesome redevelopment.
Isn't it good that the downtown DND employees are staying -- more employees downtown make it more vibrant.
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  #445  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 11:38 AM
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Isn't it good that the downtown DND employees are staying -- more employees downtown make it more vibrant.
Sure filling a building with 2,000 employees (who leave at night) won't make things as vibrant as filling that same building with 2,000 hotel residents.

Downtown Ottawa is already fairly vibrant during the day. The problem is that nobody sticks around after work and a hotel would solve that more than DND.
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  #446  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 1:23 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Isn't it good that the downtown DND employees are staying -- more employees downtown make it more vibrant.
And on the other hand, the fortress-like security at DND now kills the neighbourhood, so there's that.
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  #447  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 1:28 PM
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I don't have access to the article, but the headline speaks for itself.

Quote:
‘People are spending money’: Shaw Centre on pace for best year ever in 2023, CEO says


David Sali, OBJ
February 6, 2023


Nina Kressler told OBJ last week the region’s second-largest meeting and convention space is seeing “significant uptake” in bookings for major gatherings with more than 300 participants.

https://obj.ca/people-are-spending-money-shaw-centre-on-pace-for-best-year-ever-in-2023-ceo-says/
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  #448  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Real estate experts propose mixed-use solutions for high-end retail spaces vacated by Nordstrom

Sheila Reid, The Globe and Mail
June 7, 2023 | Published 8 hours ago


As department store chain Nordstrom makes its exit from Canada, landlords are facing a challenge to find new uses for more than a dozen sizable stores in high-end locations across the country.

The retailer is expected to vacate six Nordstrom and seven Nordstrom Rack locations by the end of the month, leaving landlords such as Cadillac Fairview and Oxford Properties to fill spaces that range in size from 30,000 to 230,000 square feet.

Landlords haven’t yet disclosed their plans for the locations in B.C., Alberta and Ontario, but commercial real estate brokers are predicting a shift from traditional department store anchors to more creative, mixed-use spaces.

“I don’t see it being backfilled by a lot of clothing retail, I see it more as experiential,” said Arlin Markowitz, executive vice-president of urban retail at CBRE.

He paints a picture of a mall that, for example, would blend spa and wellness, entertainment and retailers in multistorey former department stores divided to entice a broader array of tenants.

“I think the malls could benefit from having these kinds of new-age, experiential brands coming in,” Mr. Markowitz said. “It might draw a different type of customer to the centre, which would be accretive to the other retailers.”

In April, CBRE brokered a deal with First Capital REIT and Ballroom, a chain of bowling alleys with bars, live music and gaming. The new location will be at 1 Bloor St. E, on the same corner where First Capital is also looking to fill its 40,000-square-foot Nordstrom Rack space. Nordstrom Rack vacated that location on Monday.

Eric Sherman, First Capital’s vice-president of real estate, said the company hopes to make a tenant announcement in the next three to six months, with the space filled and active in the next 12 to 18 months.

“We’re definitely looking to do something more exciting here, maybe a little bit less conventional,” Mr. Sherman said, adding that it’s unlikely another discount brand will take over the space.

The malls where the six Nordstrom stores are located are among the highest-earning malls in the country, including the Pacific Centre in Vancouver, the Chinook Centre in Calgary and the Toronto Eaton Centre.

“I think it’s more of an opportunity to reposition these spaces away from department stores,” said Alice Dale, director for Altus Group’s national retail practice.

Ms. Dale said landlords have to be willing to spend the money to break up large box stores and turn them into something new.

West Edmonton Mall, the second largest mall in North America, has had success in filling a space once occupied by Sears with a 125,000-square-foot Toyota dealership. Ms. Dale said luxury car dealerships could slot in well at any one of the Nordstrom mall locations.

Nordstrom’s exit comes at a time when department stores in Canada and the United States are in decline. Target left the Canadian retail market in 2015, followed by Sears in 2018, both leaving behind large spaces that were awkward to convert.

John Crombie, executive managing director for retail services at commercial property brokers Cushman & Wakefield, was involved with a number of the Target spaces that were transitioned after the retailer left the market. He said the estimated cost of splitting up a 120,000-square-foot space ran as high as $17-million.

“We were better off tearing down the boxes because it wasn’t worth working around the existing blueprint,” he said.

According to Stan Krawitz, a principal at Avison Young, the cost to landlords to get spaces ready for new tenants generally ranges from $80 to $120 a square foot. Building new pedestrian corridors, which would be required if the space is split up, can approach $300 a foot.

But while smaller boxes might be expensive initially, the move could ultimately result in more revenue for landlords. Anchor tenants typically pay less rent per square foot than a tenant with a smaller footprint, and retailers covet space at Canada’s top malls.

“What Nordstrom did was to pick the very best of our retail,” Mr. Krawitz said. “And the very best of our retail has a waiting list.”

The former Nordstrom Rack at Yonge and Bloor is located at the busiest transit station in the country in an area that is expected to densify rapidly.

The situation presents a challenge for First Capital, Mr. Sherman said, “but I would say almost like a generational opportunity for a retailer to plant their flag in the heart of Toronto.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-nordstrom-retail-spaces-mixed-use-solutions/

I will be absolutely 'floored' if the Shaw Centre doesn't take over the third floor. They are experiencing record bookings right now and the region is going to grow significantly over the next 30 years. If they want to remain even slightly competitive with the big guns (MTL/TO), they are going to need more space. Cadillac Fairview would likely jump at the opportunity with a sweetheart deal, and all the Shaw Centre would need to do is build an atrium between spaces and do an easy reconfiguration of the third floor. This would add 74,000 square ft to the Shaw Centre, bringing it up from 192,000 to 266,000 sq ft of exhibition space. By comparison, the Metro Toronto Convention Centre has 442,000 sq ft of exhibition space and the Palais des Congres in MTL has 396,800 sq ft of exhibitions space.

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Last edited by J.OT13; Jun 7, 2023 at 7:56 PM. Reason: Moved post from commercial real estate thread, wanted to keep context by adding quote.
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  #449  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 7:20 PM
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A bowling alley would be cool. Bring on some of those traditional night out spots that have been lost over the last 40 years.

That said, I agree with Harley. Never thought of it, but it would be fantastic to see the Convention Centre expand into the Nordstrom space and build an atrium between the the two, and then open up the north side to take advantage of the terrace as outdoor meeting space. That, THAT is what I want to see.

Heck, tear down Nordstrom and build a Convention Centre expansion with hotel tower. Not sure how that would work with the food court a the base, though.
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  #450  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 7:22 PM
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Hmm that could be a really good idea actually. And a pretty rare one at that, I hope they are seriously considering or having active conversations. Otherwise, if it's filled with let's say a bowling alley, they might lose their chance for a long time.
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  #451  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 7:39 PM
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Like everything else in Ottawa, the Convention Centre was underbuilt from the start. Harley, you're a genius and have ruined for me whatever will go there in the end because I doubt the Convention Centre or Rideau can come up with what's ultimately a pretty logical idea like that.
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  #452  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 7:41 PM
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Like everything else in Ottawa, the Convention Centre was underbuilt from the start. Harley, you're a genius and have ruined for me whatever will go there in the end because I doubt the Convention Centre or Rideau can come up with what's ultimately a pretty logical idea like that.
Well we are in the same boat. It only makes too much sense for Ottawa. It's a one time opportunity to create a competitive central convention centre for the future, and we WILL blow it.

I adore your idea of extending exhibition space to the rooftop. They could host some incredibly unique events on that green roof with a little bit of jazzing up of the space.
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  #453  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 7:46 PM
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To add to the awesomeness of my idea, it's the Canada Hall (the largest room of the Shaw Centre) that is at 'atrium level', level to the rooftop, so extending into the third floor space of Nordstrom via an atrium could be seamless and would allow for the very largest events to share one level.

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  #454  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 7:53 PM
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Kind of shocked they didn't even consider opening it up to the terrace when the Convention Centre was planned in the first place. Even the old Congress Centre had a relationship with the terrace (along with multi level terraces facing the Canal).
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  #455  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 8:07 PM
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Kind of shocked they didn't even consider opening it up to the terrace when the Convention Centre was planned in the first place. Even the old Congress Centre had a relationship with the terrace (along with multi level terraces facing the Canal).
I suppose Cadillac Fairview owns the roof and the Government of Ontario didn't feel like a lease for anything beyond emergency egress added enough value to the Shaw Centre at the time. It has been an underutilized and slightly dilapidated space for decades. I see a new lease on life for the whole space if this little idea of mine came together. We could make your bowling alley part of a Rec Room taking up the old theatre space on the other side to really liven it up.

Edit: Here is the floor plan of the Rec Room @ Square One. This looks perfect for the old theatre space, and includes a bowling alley!
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  #456  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 8:49 PM
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Great ideas like expanding the conference centre should be floated past the actual decision makers involved. Anybody written to CF, provincial politicians in charge of the centre, local politicians, etc.?

I actually know an exec at CF I’ll mention it to them. Ultimately I guess it would depend on what the most productive use of the space is.
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  #457  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 10:29 PM
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While we are at it:

Why are we spending $20 million + next year to rehabilitate the Mackenzie King Bridge? I don't see a need for this bridge post-light rail. I would love to see the whole damned thing removed, connecting the NAC directly to an expanded Confederation Park, getting rid of a shit tonne of unnecessary concrete next to the Shaw Centre/Rideau Centre, and opening up the most beautiful section of the canal.



https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...ion-5d75fe6f-2b7f-4d0a-a13d-ef030bae6181
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  #458  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2023, 1:10 AM
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Chemo Brain paying off today! You've got all sorts of great ideas!!

It's true, that bridge is just about completely useless. People would still flip out at the suggestion of removing it, but it really is pointless. Never understood why it was ever built.
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  #459  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2023, 1:26 AM
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Chemo Brain paying off today! You've got all sorts of great ideas!!

It's true, that bridge is just about completely useless. People would still flip out at the suggestion of removing it, but it really is pointless. Never understood why it was ever built.
Love it haha. Chemo is definitely playing with my brain today, I slept 18 hours straight completely uninterrupted last night/day. Glad that good ideas came out of it
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  #460  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2023, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
While we are at it:

Why are we spending $20 million + next year to rehabilitate the Mackenzie King Bridge? I don't see a need for this bridge post-light rail. I would love to see the whole damned thing removed, connecting the NAC directly to an expanded Confederation Park, getting rid of a shit tonne of unnecessary concrete next to the Shaw Centre/Rideau Centre, and opening up the most beautiful section of the canal.
Damn. That's a great idea.
It would've untangled that spaghetti monstrosity on the other side too:


Last edited by zzptichka; Jun 8, 2023 at 4:25 AM.
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