Canada's 10 Tallest U/C

[WhipperSnapper]

And, yet, The Stadium and CofE tower are complete. Granted the rest is still under construction but, I don't see a different direction for what has been completed thus far. It's not any different than supporters of the ICE District speculating on how it will turn out.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

And, yet, The Stadium and CofE tower are complete. Granted the rest is still under construction but, I don't see a different direction for what has been completed thus far. It's not any different than supporters of the ICE District speculating on how it will turn out.

In your opinion...

You and your comments about "pedestrian experience" are getting old. Show me examples of recently completed corporate towers in Toronto that provide such a highly rated "pedestrian experience"? I asked you to do that before and you ignored my request so I will ask again. I suspect you can't which is why you fell silent on the issue. I am not sure why other projects around the country must meet these somewhat subjective standards you seem to always preach about when such architectural parameters are not happening in your own back yard.

[WhipperSnapper]

Stop trying to turn this into a "centre of the universe" vs Edmonton/Canada argument. It's fucking pathetic and stupid considering these boring master plans are created in a select few major offices and reproduced all around the country. I'm just as critical of them in Toronto. Maybe I expect too much. It's still better then settling on too little like you seem to be doing.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Stop trying to turn this into a "centre of the universe" vs Edmonton/Canada argument. It's fucking pathetic and stupid considering these boring master plans are created in a select few major offices and reproduced all around the country. I'm just as critical of them in Toronto. Maybe I expect too much. It's still better then settling on too little like you seem to be doing.

Definitely not settling here...and I never called Toronto the "center of the Universe" either which clearly it is not.

Just to add a bit of perspective to what is being added here from a "pedestrian experience"

The Ice District is building the following:

-a central outdoor plaza area for pedestrians that would include a skating rink in the winter and summer related recreation in the summer. That's a 10 on the pedestrian scale for me.

- an outdoor screen for viewing movies or Oiler games outside. Also a 10.

- restaurants with outdoor seating on the Plaza - another 10.

- a LRT station right at the door step of the arena - how novel. Can any other city compare to that? - also a 10.

- providing pedestrian access through the arena for the skywalk system during the winter months - also a 10.

- the addition of 4 overhead access walkways adding to the skywalk system - a 10.

- extensive retail, shops, fast food outlets, movie theatres, a grocery store and casino etc - all a 10.

-using the roof tops of the podiums for restaurants and park space - also a 10.


So after all that, I am not sure why you think we are settling. You don't like the way the podium looks...great, we get that...that is your opinion. Go troll somewhere else...

[WhipperSnapper]

You insinuated centre of the universe attitude by bringing Toronto into the conversation in the first place.

There's too much focus on the plaza while 104 Avenue is treated as afterthought with what has been built so far. I'm accepting that you're going to disagree with me. All I expect from you is to do the same and not try and dismiss this as city vs city garbage. I'm not trolling. I'm giving my fucking opinion!

I'm assuming you're using a 1 to 10 scale since everything is a ten. Maybe you're not settling but, you certainly are easy to impress.

This one stands out the most.
a LRT station right at the door step of the arena - how novel. Can any other city compare to that?
Yes they can!

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

You insinuated centre of the universe attitude by bringing Toronto into the conversation in the first place.

There's too much focus on the plaza while 104 Avenue is treated as afterthought with what has been built so far. I'm accepting that you're going to disagree with me. All I expect from you is to do the same and not try and dismiss this as city vs city garbage. I'm not trolling. I'm giving my fucking opinion!

I'm assuming you're using a 1 to 10 scale since everything is a ten. Maybe you're not settling but, you certainly are easy to impress.

This one stands out the most.
a LRT station right at the door step of the arena - how novel. Can any other city compare to that?
Yes they can!

Its not a city versus city thing. If you lived in Montreal I would ask you to provide examples in Montreal that provide support for your arguments. You just happen to be from Toronto.

And you have no idea about 104 avenue either. It is not a pedestrian street. Far from it. It is a major thoroughfare to downtown and does not need any further pedestrian enhancements around the arena that you seem to think are lacking. And really, they built a huge overpass from the Plaza to the Arena taking the fact that there is heavy traffic on that road into consideration into the design.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I'm assuming you're using a 1 to 10 scale since everything is a ten. Maybe you're not settling but, you certainly are easy to impress.

When the bar is set so low everything's a 10!

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON

Its not a city versus city thing. If you lived in Montreal I would ask you to provide examples in Montreal that provide support for your arguments. You just happen to be from Toronto.

And you have no idea about 104 avenue either. It is not a pedestrian street. Far from it. It is a major thoroughfare to downtown and does not need any further pedestrian enhancements around the arena that you seem to think are lacking. And really, they built a huge overpass from the Plaza to the Arena taking the fact that there is heavy traffic on that road into consideration into the design.

But why? I don't get the relevance if it's not a city vs city thing. I don't think I implied Toronto is doing a better job. It should be quite evident in any conversation about Toronto.

I know 104. It's also quite obvious it's not a pedestrian friendly by the sheer scale of it. However, you're not even contemplating the potential to make it more pedestrian friendly as part of this massive project and to integrate it as the downtown expands northwards. Instead, a giant plus 15 was built to circumnavigate it.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Maybe I expect too much.

Yes, yes you do.

[WhipperSnapper]

The way I see it. My too high expectations bring balance to people like you Calgarian. I can't believe you work in the field of architecture and are so willing to approve mediocrity. No wonder we have so many crap firms.

You're the spokesperson for the "different = awesome" crowds. You're easily sold on gimmicks such as West Village's pointy crown or Vogue's Gothic inspired step backs.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The way I see it. My too high expectations bring balance to people like you Calgarian. I can't believe you work in the field of architecture and are so willing to approve mediocrity. No wonder we have so many crap firms.

You're the spokesperson for the "different = awesome" crowds. You're easily sold on gimmicks such as West Village's pointy crown or Vogue's Gothic inspired step backs.

Triggered you a bit there hey?

Maybe stop acting like you know more than everyone else and you won't get people pushing back against your opinion so much.

[enrigue8]

I found on the web a documentary called building toronto.
I cutted apart the Massey tower part and upload it myself as video.
The documentary was filmed in 2012,so it's not recent.
I dont own the documentary at all.
Enjoy it.

• Video Link

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Triggered you a bit there hey?

Maybe stop acting like you know more than everyone else and you won't get people pushing back against your opinion so much.

Yep. Poor tastes will always trigger me but, unlike the usual suspects, it's all in good fun.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Triggered you a bit there hey?

Maybe stop acting like you know more than everyone else and you won't get people pushing back against your opinion so much.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Triggered you a bit there hey?

Maybe stop acting like you know more than everyone else and you won't get people pushing back against your opinion so much.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Massey Tower this morning

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Yep. Poor tastes will always trigger me but, unlike the usual suspects, it's all in good fun.

You call it poor taste, I call it reality. Not every single project can be a showcase, there are a myriad of factors that go into something and that greatly influences design. People like me who work in the industry know this, that's why we don't decry every project for not being the most beautiful thing ever.

[caltrane74]

All the rich boys in suits over at One Bloor, official groundbreaking for our first supertall. I also saw a few news camera crews as well.

Maybe the groundbreaking will be televised.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

You call it poor taste, I call it reality. Not every single project can be a showcase, there are a myriad of factors that go into something and that greatly influences design. People like me who work in the industry know this, that's why we don't decry every project for not being the most beautiful thing ever.

Immediate factors would be:

- cost, and to what degree the city pitches in on common use features
- revenue, and the acknowledgment that it's the owner's project ultimately, not the architect's. A project needs to make money and decide where to prioritize investment
- respect for colleagues in the field. You don't make a good name for yourself by shitting on your peers.
- x factors local to the immediate area and personalities involved that cannot be summed up with sweeping platitudes or planning principles.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

You call it poor taste, I call it reality. Not every single project can be a showcase, there are a myriad of factors that go into something and that greatly influences design. People like me who work in the industry know this, that's why we don't decry every project for not being the most beautiful thing ever.

What a crock. I'm as realistic as anyone when it comes to good design and urban form. There's examples of it everywhere. Affordable doesn't have to be tacky. So often it's one too many colours, one too may facades, or one too many steps. Does that really express a desire for the most beautiful thing ever to you? Explain how aA continually produces solid designs while all the copy cats fail so miserably. aA is known around these part for their bland, simple, repetitive design. How come lesser firms continually can't pull it off? The same with developers. Why are some widely accepted as building better designs (Battistella) than others ( La Caille) for the same market range? The only viable explanation is varying degrees of taste. Of course, taste does have a subjective element to it. There's also both good and bad so it's not entire subjective as some people suggest it to be.

I do have experience in the industry growing up in one of Europe's top firms and being in most aspects of real estate ever since. I'm fully verse through first hand experience I can't build what I like. I have to built what I can sell. Sometimes it makes me want to cry.

Note: Calgarians are the most accepting and the least critical people I've ever met in all my years. I didn't expect to make friends in the Calgary forum over the years through posting opinions that contradict the group think there.