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  #1321  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 4:45 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Letrim Road EA - Preliminary Evaluation Results are up on the City website.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-eng...-widening-environmental-assessment-study

They recommend "Option 7". The way Option 7 connects to Riverside Drive and "Old Letrim Road" has changed from the preliminary alignment. I'm concerned about the conceptual Rideau River crossing of Fallowfield Road... if they don't connect it directly to the Letrim alignment then Riverside Drive between the Fallowfield Crossing and the new Letrim Road will have to be over-built to handle both north-south traffic and east-west (Fallowfield-Letrim) traffic.

Also, the Fallowfield-Letrim alignment seems like the last chance for the City to build a grade-separated southern connector between Highway 416 and Highway 417. Looks like they just see this as another E-W arterial. I guess Ottawa will never have a southern "ring road".
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  #1322  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
Also, the Fallowfield-Letrim alignment seems like the last chance for the City to build a grade-separated southern connector between Highway 416 and Highway 417. Looks like they just see this as another E-W arterial. I guess Ottawa will never have a southern "ring road".
That ship sailed a long time ago.
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  #1323  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 1:45 AM
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It's been equally as bad to get into Hull from Aylmer these past couple of weeks. Anecdotally, it's usually about a 2 week process for people to figure out their new routine once schools open up, but this year seems to be taking longer. Or my memory is getting worse.
I have been hearing lots of complaints from people in the Aylmer and Plateau areas recently. They used to have a much easier commute than people in the old Gatineau.

But there has been a huge amount of development in Aylmer-Plateau with no transportation investments.
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  #1324  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 1:14 PM
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That ship sailed a long time ago.
Ya... I know, but if the City did an about face on all of its planning documents, and ignored public outcry (not going to happen), you would only need to grade-separate 11-12 roads, plus the bridge, plus re-configure the fallowfield-416 interchange. Would that be expensive? Yes. Are there bigger priorities? Yes.

I guess my bigger question is: do you foresee the City / Province ever protecting a new highway corridor within Ottawa? What corridor would that be?
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  #1325  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 2:02 PM
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That ship sailed a long time ago.
Good. A ring road is, and should be, a very low priority.
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  #1326  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 2:50 PM
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I guess my bigger question is: do you foresee the City / Province ever protecting a new highway corridor within Ottawa? What corridor would that be?
They already have. It is called the 401. The reality is the need for those on Highways 7 and 17 to get around Ottawa to the 417 or 174 east of Ottawa (and vice versa) is small. As for Orleans/Kanata or Kanata/Montreal traffic, the detour would be so large, it wouldn't be all that useful outside of rush hour. That only leaves Orleans/Toronto (or other parts of southern Ontario).
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  #1327  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 3:04 PM
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As for Orleans/Kanata or Kanata/Montreal traffic, the detour would be so large, it wouldn't be all that useful outside of rush hour. That only leaves Orleans/Toronto (or other parts of southern Ontario).
I think Kanata (+Upper Ottawa Valley) to Montreal is the only one that makes sense. A theoretical highway @ Fallowfield / Letrim wouldn't be out of the way for those folks, it would almost be the same # of kms. Maybe it doesn't make sense now, but as the "rush hour" gets longer on the 417... who knows.

Still, I am in agreement with everyone else here.... I could probably name at least 10 projects off the top of my head that should get the $$ first. I just find it interesting NEW highway building in Ottawa is "done" for the time being.
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  #1328  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 3:40 PM
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Ring road could come useful in the future eventually once we demolish 417 in the core.
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  #1329  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2017, 3:42 PM
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I think Kanata (+Upper Ottawa Valley) to Montreal is the only one that makes sense. A theoretical highway @ Fallowfield / Letrim wouldn't be out of the way for those folks, it would almost be the same # of kms. Maybe it doesn't make sense now, but as the "rush hour" gets longer on the 417... who knows.
I'm assuming you would use the 416 to get from the 417 to this theoretical highway @ Fallowfield / Letrim? I measured the distance and on the 417 it is 30.3 km from the 416 exchange at the 417 to Leitrum and the 417. However since the 416 south swings west between Hunt Club and Fallowfield, I estimated the distance on this theoretical route to be about 35 km. That is about 15% further. Worth it if traffic on the Queensway is bad, but not if it isn't, which was my point.

Potentially the Fallowfield / Letrim bridge could get congested as well with other, local traffic, making the benefit of the bypass lower.
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  #1330  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 3:30 AM
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Welcome to Ottawa, the only G7 country with a crappy two lane road serving the capital's airport, and no train to the airport.

The city doesn't care, the province doesn't care, and the feds don't care.

The new logo of Ottawa should be a traffic light, because that's all the vision the leadership has for the future. Yes, a proper network of roads would be nice, and a train to the airport would be nice, but it's not happening. Instead they want to build Bowesville Station in the middle of an empty field.
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  #1331  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 11:21 AM
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Welcome to Ottawa, the only G7 country with a crappy two lane road serving the capital's airport, and no train to the airport.
The city doesn't care, the province doesn't care, and the feds don't care.
And a terribly dismal Greyhound bus terminal on Catherine Street.
For many, this is the not so welcoming entrance to Ottawa.
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  #1332  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxHeadroom View Post
Welcome to Ottawa, the only G7 country with a crappy two lane road serving the capital's airport, and no train to the airport.
It is also the least populous G7 capital by a factor of at least 5 and has the least used G7 capital airport by a factor of 4 (and once the new Berlin airport opens that ratio will go much higher).
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  #1333  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 1:54 PM
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It is also the least populous G7 capital by a factor of at least 5 and has the least used G7 capital airport by a factor of 4 (and once the new Berlin airport opens that ratio will go much higher).
Not to nitpick, but the Rome metro area has about 4.5 million people, so that is 3 times the size of Ottawa.

Otherwise the point is well taken.
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  #1334  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 2:21 PM
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It is also the least populous G7 capital by a factor of at least 5 and has the least used G7 capital airport by a factor of 4 (and once the new Berlin airport opens that ratio will go much higher).
At least in terms of the road to the airport, I don't find the Airport Parkway to be an embarrassment. It actually looks pretty nice as an introductory approach to the city, especially if veer off onto the canal driveway to go downtown or go east via Riverside as opposed to going up Bronson.

It's also worth mentioning that in addition to the fact that most of the G7 capitals are the biggest city/airport in their country, a lot of capital/big city airports happen to be on major highways leading to other parts of the country or cities in other countries.

Except for some south end suburban areas around Hunt Club, the road to YOW doesn't lead anywhere but YOW.

That's a major reason it's not an impressive superhighway. Is the portion between Hunt Club and the terminal *ever* congested? I've never seen it congested unless there is an accident or something special going on like an airshow.

Here is the road to the airport in Bern, the capital of Switzerland:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.8901892,7...-HBQ0irjgna209hrIEu6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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  #1335  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Not to nitpick, but the Rome metro area has about 4.5 million people, so that is 3 times the size of Ottawa.

Otherwise the point is well taken.
To further nitpick, I think it is difficult to compare definitions of metropolitan areas. Certainly places like Viterbo (where there is a frequent commuter train service to central Rome) would count as part of a metropolitan area in Canada. A better comparison would be the Region of Lazio, at 5.8 million.
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  #1336  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 3:52 PM
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Last edited by zzptichka; Sep 26, 2017 at 4:38 PM.
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  #1337  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Danger by design on Alta Vista Drive

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 26, 2017 | Last Updated: September 26, 2017 10:25 AM EDT


A firm note telling a couple of hundred people people not to scamper across Alta Vista Drive to get between an office and a temporary parking lot will be enough to keep them safe, Ottawa’s city planners say.

The planners are asking city council’s planning committee to approve a three-year arrangement with the Canadian Medical Association on Tuesday morning, based on a faulty understanding of both traffic laws and human nature.

See, the association tore down its old headquarters on Alta Vista, just north of Smyth Road, last spring without a working plan for building a new one. The people moved into another office building the CMA has across the street, where they’ll stay until the new one is designed and up. The problem is although they’ve squeezed the workers in, the temporary office doesn’t have enough parking, so the CMA wants to keep using the parking lots for the building they tore down.

In Ottawa you can typically have parking lots as “accessory uses,” linked with buildings where people live or work, but a standalone parking lot takes special permission. Now that the old CMA headquarters is gone, the existing parking lots are accessory uses to nothing.

Seems like a simple thing, especially since the proposal is to allow it for just three years. But until then, we’ll be setting up a situation with parking spots on one side of a busy road, serving an office building on the other side of the busy road, with no crosswalk or anything.

On Alta Vista Drive there is a long straight stretch of road lined with low buildings set way back, a little piece of Kanata office park. Why would anybody be walking there at all? Each building has its own parking lot and the nearest store is kilometres away. The sightlines are decent but drivers won’t be on the lookout for people crossing because all the design cues will tell them that this isn’t a place where that happens.

The official solution is to get the CMA parkers to walk south to Smyth and Alta Vista, where there are traffic lights. That adds about 200 metres to the walk, which doesn’t seem like much if you’re able-bodied and the weather’s good, but it looks different in the dark in January. Anyway, in real life, people won’t walk 20 extra feet if it’s something they only have to do because of lazy-cheap design. Grass in every city is crisscrossed with tramped-down desire lines where designers and planners haven’t accounted for human nature.

The CMA’s application to the city includes a copy of a notice it’s put up in its office: “As part of our commitment for safe work practices and procedures, and safety in every activity, employees are instructed NEVER TO JAY WALK across Alta Vista. ALWAYS use the crossing lights at the corner of Smyth Road and Alta Vista Drive to ensure your safety.”

It will pave a couple of short connections from the parking lot to the sidewalk, so pedestrians won’t have to use the in-and-out driveway and to keep the extra walk as short as possible.

Good enough, says Ottawa’s planning department. The planners agree with the CMA that people’s safety is on them, not the owners of the building, parking lot or road, or the regulators.

“While the (planning) department has the ability to influence where people cross, it is ultimately every citizen’s responsibility to abide by provincial law and cross at designated locations,” the planners say.

In fact there is no provincial law requiring people to cross at designated locations. You’d think they’d know that.

The Highway Traffic Act says it’s illegal to cross against a red light. Crossing the road where there’s no signal is legal. There’s even a whole section in the Ontario Traffic Manual, the road-designers’ bible, about “uncontrolled crossings.” They should usually come with warning signs and ideally medians and curb bulges to narrow the gap. None of those is going in for the CMA.

“How much do we regulate versus educate and encourage people? There is a balance,” said Alta Vista Coun. Jean Cloutier, who’s OK with the plan.

The corporate connection between the demolished headquarters and the temporary one (it holds MD Financial Management, a CMA subsidiary that does financial planning for doctors) has meant some foot traffic previously.

“There was some people crossing before. That being said, we have to encourage people to always behave safely, always cross safely,” Cloutier said.

Nevertheless, he said, he expects the proposal will be revised on the floor in the committee meeting to cut the number of parking spaces from 116 to 44, allowing only one of the two old lots to be used. He hopes fewer people will drive.

[email protected]
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/reevely-danger-by-design-on-alta-vista-drive
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  #1338  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
At least in terms of the road to the airport, I don't find the Airport Parkway to be an embarrassment. It actually looks pretty nice as an introductory approach to the city, especially if veer off onto the canal driveway to go downtown or go east via Riverside as opposed to going up Bronson.
Agreed.

Quote:
That's a major reason it's not an impressive superhighway.
Isn't "impressive superhighway" an oxymoron? IMHO, superhighways are a blight of modern societies. Not having one to the airport is a good thing.

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Is the portion between Hunt Club and the terminal *ever* congested? I've never seen it congested unless there is an accident or something special going on like an airshow.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. There is a strong argument for widening the parkway north of Hunt Club to 4 lanes and it is true that Bronson is a mess, but that's about it.
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  #1339  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 5:21 PM
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Agreed.



Isn't "impressive superhighway" an oxymoron? IMHO, superhighways are a blight of modern societies. Not having one to the airport is a good thing.



I was thinking exactly the same thing. There is a strong argument for widening the parkway north of Hunt Club to 4 lanes and it is true that Bronson is a mess, but that's about it.
I can't remember... does the signage after Carleton U lead people to downtown via the canal driveway or not? If it doesn't... it should.
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  #1340  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2017, 6:43 PM
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I can't remember... does the signage after Carleton U lead people to downtown via the canal driveway or not? If it doesn't... it should.
AFAIK, there isn't any signage leading people to downtown. I suspect the problem is that Colonel By Dr. wouldn't be able to handle the traffic if they did.

If the Alta Vista Corridor (AVC) ever connects to Nicholas as planned, Riverside Dr. to the AVC would be an option.
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