Boise Development Thread - Part II

[Visualize]

Spending millions to help Boise’s homeless actually helps us all, leaders say

New Path Community Housing will sit on Fairview Avenue between 22nd and 23rd streets, and it will provide homes for 40 chronically homeless people. Its construction will cost $7.3 million.

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article174733816.html#storylink=cpy

Great that a group wants to help the homeless, but why that location? Does the rest of the neighborhood get a choice in this, I'm betting they don't. Why are the hard working class people who earned their right to live there then taxed to house homeless people right next door against their will? The free market may land a bad neighbor next to you from time to time, but at least they earned their right to live there. This is a transitional area with multi-million dollar proposals underway, and now this is going to be one of the new cornerstones.

Homeless people gather in the city center of cities world wide because it's the most entertaining and provides the most access to resources, be that handouts or drugs. Why build them housing in the same area that they wasted their days in to begin with. What motivation do they have to succeed at that point? If they aren't working, then build them housing at a tenth the land cost out by Kuna. If they don't want to live out there, then they didn't really want to get off the streets bad enough in the first place.

[boisecynic]

Originally Posted by Visualize

Does the rest of the neighborhood get a choice in this,...

Short answer: Nope.

Remember last year, the neighborhood complained about the SandHill Crane Apts at 32nd and Moore, going so far as to appeal the P&Z Commission's approval to City Council and lost that appeal. That was almost a year ago and no progress is evident on that project. I haven't heard if it's been appealed to judicial review. Maybe BCACHA is waiting for the Whittier Elementary expansion?

In related news, there's a proposal to create a West End Neighborhood Association by splitting Veterans Park NA. The new WENA is not to be confused with the existing tiny West Downtown NA. VPNA is just too big geographically to ever come to much consensus about any given issue and West Downtown NA is too small to have any power. They don't even care about that weedy former Salvation Army lot at 19th and Jefferson even though it's at the very edge of their boundary.

And the Fairview/Main corridor is weird. No one seems to care about it, it's like an orphan.

It seems that the City of Boise has an agenda an no one can stop them. But you know these kind of projects would never fly in the north end.

I'd like to see what would happen if someone proposed low income housing at the long vacant lot at 15th and Hill.

[OhGoodGlavin]

Originally Posted by boisecynic

I'd like to see what would happen if someone proposed low income housing at the long vacant lot at 15th and Hill.

I am a homeowner in the North End and would very much support it. Better yet, it's a great idea for the vacant lot on 15th and Bannock. It is far preferable, in my opinion, to the mostly faith-based shelters in the Rhodes Park area that impose specific moral constructs on the homeless in exchange for shelter. The reality is - as counterintuitive as it seems - Housing First projects *save communities money* on indigent care and HF may have positive outcomes for the subset of chronically homeless that have substance abuse and mental health issues.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10597-009-9283-7

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.94.4.651

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1049731505282593

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/casp.723/full

http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/1/2/e000323.full

[Visualize]

Originally Posted by boisecynic

I'd like to see what would happen if someone proposed low income housing at the long vacant lot at 15th and Hill.

Some bleeding hearts would support it, and then blame themselves when their home gets robbed for drug money because they obviously didn't give them enough handouts that they needed to steal.

Literally the worst part of almost every city I can think of is because of a concentration of government subsidized low income housing or homeless shelters. It's really a shame that the Fairview/Main corridor is trending in this direction based on this development and others.

[OhGoodGlavin]

Originally Posted by Visualize

Literally the worst part of almost every city I can think of is because of an expanse of government subsidized roads and associated infrastructure that create a class of people helplessly dependent on big government to bring them services. It's really a shame that the Meridian/Nampa is trending in this direction based on this development and others.

FIFY

[boisecynic]

Originally Posted by OhGoodGlavin

I am a homeowner in the North End and would very much support it. Better yet, it's a great idea for the vacant lot on 15th and Bannock. It is far preferable, in my opinion, to the mostly faith-based shelters in the Rhodes Park area that impose specific moral constructs on the homeless in exchange for shelter. The reality is - as counterintuitive as it seems - Housing First projects *save communities money* on indigent care and HF may have positive outcomes for the subset of chronically homeless that have substance abuse and mental health issues.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10597-009-9283-7

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.94.4.651

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1049731505282593

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/casp.723/full

http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/1/2/e000323.full

Don't be so quick to jump on the Housing First bandwagon.

Read this from Apr 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/27/utah-homeless-shelters-housing-first

“The surprisingly simple way Utah solved chronic homelessness and saved millions,” trumpeted the Washington Post (on April 17, 2015)...

Except no one at the state had bothered to run the announcement by service providers such as the Road Home and Crossroads Urban Center – groups that support the state’s efforts but also work each day with the men, women and children who still have no place to call home.

“Making a statement like that was in direct contrast to what you see on the street,” said Glenn Bailey, executive director of Crossroads, which runs a food pantry and thrift store and fights for economic justice. “It’s an exaggeration. It wasn’t helpful … since the recession, the largest single part of the homeless population that’s grown is families with children, and youth”.

When asked whether he agreed that Utah’s chronic homeless population was nearing “functional zero”, Road Home executive director Matt Minkevitch replied: “I would differ with that perspective."

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If anything the homeless situation in SLC has gotten much worse.

See today's followup in The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/22/salt-lake-city-homeless-people-missing Note, this is The English Guardian, not the Boise Guardian. The Guardian is typically left leaning.

[Sawtooth]

Originally Posted by OhGoodGlavin

I am a homeowner in the North End and would very much support it. Better yet, it's a great idea for the vacant lot on 15th and Bannock. It is far preferable, in my opinion, to the mostly faith-based shelters in the Rhodes Park area that impose specific moral constructs on the homeless in exchange for shelter. The reality is - as counterintuitive as it seems - Housing First projects *save communities money* on indigent care and HF may have positive outcomes for the subset of chronically homeless that have substance abuse and mental health issues.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10597-009-9283-7

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.94.4.651

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1049731505282593

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/casp.723/full

http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/1/2/e000323.full

The big obvious difference is that the lot at 15th and Hill is in a historic neighborhood with no large industrial lots nearby. 24th and Fairview isn't in a residential area and in a part of town forgotten until lately. And it isn't a typical shelter, it will be permanent transitional housing for the most vulnerable in our city to get them off of the streets so that they have an address and can get a job.

I'm sure the Red Lion Downtowner isn't ecstatic about this nor the Lucky Dog Tavern across the street but we are living in a growing city.

The design doesn't look bad based on the renderings. It will be an improvement over that ugly old restaurant for sure.

[trails]

This seems a bit hyperbolic of a reaction for what is a single half-block four story 40 unit building. It's not like five 30 story towers in the Bronx or something in that vein. The current neighbors are blown out undeveloped gravel lots, old car dealerships, and the Red Lion. These blocks have been screaming for something for years. The Housing First model seems a proven means for getting people out of their predicament and productive members of the City and over the long run also saves the taxpayer (of which I'm a nearby Boise homeowner) all of the recurring costs we take on because these folks struggle to get back on their feet. They are people of Boise too, I'm not sure I get the idea of exporting them to Kuna. We can only imagine the holy hell that would rile up from the exurbs.

Anyways, I kind of like the design of the building too. Will go well with Adare Manor and the Local Construct residential springing up around the West End/Downtown. I believe they own the 15th and Bannock lot OhGoodGlavin referenced too...

Originally Posted by Visualize

Great that a group wants to help the homeless, but why that location? Does the rest of the neighborhood get a choice in this, I'm betting they don't. Why are the hard working class people who earned their right to live there then taxed to house homeless people right next door against their will? The free market may land a bad neighbor next to you from time to time, but at least they earned their right to live there. This is a transitional area with multi-million dollar proposals underway, and now this is going to be one of the new cornerstones.

Homeless people gather in the city center of cities world wide because it's the most entertaining and provides the most access to resources, be that handouts or drugs. Why build them housing in the same area that they wasted their days in to begin with. What motivation do they have to succeed at that point? If they aren't working, then build them housing at a tenth the land cost out by Kuna. If they don't want to live out there, then they didn't really want to get off the streets bad enough in the first place.

[Sawtooth]

I am also a nearby home owner north of State in the Northend and this does not worry me in the least. I am glad this is getting built to help out people in my city who are in need.

[kidboise]

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

Whoa, did I just step into SLC's development thread?

Visualize and BoiseCynic, your pearl clutching and NIMBY arguments are utterly laughable.

Take it from someone who lives in a much more dense and urban neighborhood with a homeless shelter 500 feet away from me. Go ahead, ask me how many times my place has been broken into by *gasp* the scary formerly homeless drug addicts. I'll give you a hint...0. Ask me how many people now sleep on my stoop. I'll give you another hint...0. Guess how many units are proposed across the street from the homeless shelter in my neighborhood... 565 in two, 32-story towers. The homeless shelter across the street sure hasn't hindered any development.

Nice try, but come back when you actually know what you're talking about.

GrandTeton's comment has reignited my courage to say this: Any discussion of homelessness and homeless people should be approached with utter compassion. The attempt at humor behind that bird feeding sign is in very poor taste and I'm surprised that such a thing would show up here. People are not birds. I wish the individuals behind these posts would further educate themselves about this incredibly nuanced issue--specifically with regard to mental health. Ignorance of the subject can lead to fear, and fear is certainly behind a few of these recent posts.

[boisenative]

Alright everyone, lets go ahead and hop on the next direct flight from SLC and get back to Boise, where the people are polite and where the development thread isn't a dumpster fire.

[Sawtooth]

here: http://media.giphy.com/media/to753vQp8jQsw/giphy.gif

Calle 75 Street Tacos is opening soon on 11th Street.

[Sawtooth]

The Fowler
Progress as of September 21

[OhGoodGlavin]

Ok, one more time taking the bait: Thanks, but I'll take peer reviewed publications of case-control studies any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a fake news-mongering website.

Originally Posted by boisecynic

Don't be so quick to jump on the Housing First bandwagon.

Read this from Apr 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/27/utah-homeless-shelters-housing-first



If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If anything the homeless situation in SLC has gotten much worse.

See today's followup in The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/22/salt-lake-city-homeless-people-missing Note, this is The English Guardian, not the Boise Guardian. The Guardian is typically left leaning.

[Visualize]

This has become quite the spirited discussion. I apologize to anyone that was offended by my "bird" pic, it was meant in jest, and actually has some personal stories behind it, but I'll spare you the details. Moving on.

I assume we can still talk about affordable housing on a development forum though.

For those paying attention, there is also another 120 unit affordable housing project planned for West Downtown. The project would be entirely unfeasible without Boise providing the tax payer purchased land and additional federal funds.
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/affordabl...sed-on-city-of-boise-owned-lot/197773195

Boise has also indicated that they are "missing the tool of inclusionary zoning to promote affordable housing", even though they often make deals with local developers that mimic its principles. Inclusionary zoning is an utter failure of a policy. It disincentives development by unfairly gouging a developers profits, and it increases the cost of housing for everyone else, actually making housing less affordable for everyone besides the lucky ones that have their neighbor subsidizing their rent. It's essentially a form of extortion where the city sets the zoning below what the market will support, and then grants the developer concessions to the restrictive zoning if they fleece their other tenants and take a hit on their profits to build "affordable" units.

The entire notion of whether inclusionary zoning is even legal is being brought before the Supreme Court: http://marketurbanism.com/2017/06/30/is-inclusionary-zoning-legal/

It was pointed out before the digital book burning last night that restrictive zoning policies of the past and present are what has helped create the situation of unaffordability we have today, by restricting the amount of housing the market would have naturally built. And now, the counter strategy to this already failed policy is to unnaturally mandate brand new affordable housing, since we don't have 50+ years of aging multi-family units to fill that role, which to anyone who can think critically realizes is quite counter intuitive to the natural model of the lowest quality housing being the most affordable.

I still think West Downtown will be a success, and there are some fantastic projects on the table, but I think it's more than fair to question the direction and policies which are driving its development.

[trails]

Originally Posted by Visualize

For those paying attention, there is also another 120 unit affordable housing project planned

Not just planned, it broke ground last week. It's called Adare Manor. I dig the density, design is fair enough.

Bosiecynic updated last week: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7927027&postcount=2210

[kidboise]

Originally Posted by trails

Not just planned, it broke ground last week. It's called Adare Manor. I dig the density, design is fair enough.

Bosiecynic updated last week: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7927027&postcount=2210

I used to live just a couple blocks north of here. It's crazy how much my old neighborhood will change with this, and several other planned developments. It's an exciting time!

[IdaBoi]

The Fowler is turning out great. Thanks for posting that and your other photos Sawtooth! Your posts keep us in the loop especially for those of us who live outside of the state.

[OhGoodGlavin]

Originally Posted by IdaBoi

The Fowler is turning out great. Thanks for posting that and your other photos Sawtooth! Your posts keep us in the loop especially for those of us who live outside of the state.

Interestingly, a small tower crane went up over the weekend. I'm assuming it's to install HVAC equipment on the far side of the building (relative to 5th).

[Boisebro]

Originally Posted by OhGoodGlavin

Interestingly, a small tower crane went up over the weekend. I'm assuming it's to install HVAC equipment on the far side of the building (relative to 5th).

I noticed that, too.

I just presumed the tower crane was because they decided to modify the building and use the existing structure as the base for a frost white 40-story glass tower.



and then I woke up and went to work.