Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I am just generally not a fan of LRT as a technology altogether, so I just wanted to make it clear that I am against the technology, not implementation. Surrey's LRT proposal is what well-done LRT looks like; problem is that even well-done LRT has many problems. If you build LRT without at-grade intersections as people are suggesting it should be, it's not really LRT at that point - it's a metro.

Or you could dig LRT under your downtown (Whalley, in this case) and leave it at-grade in the suburbs. Or build it down the old interurban route in west Newton; it's already suited to running trains, so all you need there is a fence, a dozen rail crossings and stop spacings of 500-1000m.

Either way, the problem is that trains and motor vehicles don't mix very well - the trick is to keep them separate as much as possible without causing more gridlock than they solve.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Or you could dig LRT under your downtown (Whalley, in this case) and leave it at-grade in the suburbs. Or build it down the old interurban route in west Newton; it's already suited to running trains, so all you need there is a fence, a dozen rail crossings and stop spacings of 500-1000m.

Either way, the problem is that trains and motor vehicles don't mix very well - the trick is to keep them separate as much as possible without causing more gridlock than they solve.

While the interurban would be the cheapest place to install a light rail line, it doesn't go to "Downtown" Surrey. (though I still think that a Langley-Cloverdale-Newton-Scott Road Station line would be within the realm of a good idea)

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sure, but the LRT's planned to come every five minutes, if not more. Even with the best timing, it's a 3-4 minute wait for the SkyTrain and 3-7 minutes for the tram (not counting delays on the tram line)... unless you can sprint from one platform to the next inside of a minute, of course.

It doesn't usually take more than a minute to go up or down an escalator, even if just standing on it. Now if the platforms are miles apart, that is a different story.

Same problem with a Broadway LRT - either they ban left turns along KGB and watch traffic skyrocket, or they don't and have "heroes" trying to race the tram or idiots who just don't notice it. That's not an alternative fact, that's a continent-wide problem.

Or do like Calgary and put up crossing gates. Or is Calgary on another continent?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

While the interurban would be the cheapest place to install a light rail line, it doesn't go to "Downtown" Surrey. (though I still think that a Langley-Cloverdale-Newton-Scott Road Station line would be within the realm of a good idea)

Right, this assumes that the Guildford-Newton route (whatever it'll be) is already in place.

I could see that... interurban from Scott Road past Newton Exchange to 64 or 56, then east to Langley?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It doesn't usually take more than a minute to go up or down an escalator, even if just standing on it. Now if the platforms are miles apart, that is a different story.

The stations at King George are planned to be side by side. Knowing how this city does things though, they'll keep the existing faregates at the SkyTrain station and install new ones for the LRT; you'll have to get through the "tap out" crowd AND the "tap in" crowd.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Or do like Calgary and put up crossing gates. Or is Calgary on another continent? ]

Bah, Metro Van drivers blow their noses at your so-called "gates!"

• Video Link

Granted, Houston drivers appears to be a special kind of stupid.

[swimmer_spe]

What is appealing about an LRT? Why would the citizens of Surrey want it?

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Knowing how this city does things though, they'll keep the existing faregates at the SkyTrain station and install new ones for the LRT; you'll have to get through the "tap out" crowd AND the "tap in" crowd.

That's a competitive sport. Whenever I transfer to the train after the train arrives and everyone disembarks, there are always a few people that decide to use the only two faregates for people tapping in.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What is appealing about an LRT? Why would the citizens of Surrey want it?

Its only appealing to developers who can use it to sell apartment and condos to millennials who are intrigued about riding a trolley to the local hipster bar.
The citizens dont want it, its the city who wants it pulled by puppet strings attached to developers

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Knowing how this city does things though, they'll keep the existing faregates at the SkyTrain station and install new ones for the LRT; you'll have to get through the "tap out" crowd AND the "tap in" crowd.

There won't be fare gates at the streetcar stops. It makes no sense as there's little room and people can just walk around them. The gates are not designed for outdoor applications. The only option is to have scanners for people to tap in and out, but no physical gates.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

There won't be fare gates at the streetcar stops. It makes no sense as there's little room and people can just walk around them. The gates are not designed for outdoor applications. The only option is to have scanners for people to tap in and out, but no physical gates.

They couldn't modify the faregates to work outside?

I can easily see this being a cat and mouse game between fare evaders and security.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What is appealing about an LRT? Why would the citizens of Surrey want it?

The citizens of Surrey DON'T want it. This is just Hepner's pet project so she can say that she actually did something while getting paid as Surrey's mayor. If a Surrey citizen vote were taken, this thing would go down in flames.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

The citizens of Surrey DON'T want it. This is just Hepner's pet project so she can say that she actually did something while getting paid as Surrey's mayor. If a Surrey citizen vote were taken, this thing would go down in flames.

Have things changed that much since this poll in 2016 showed 80% support it? I would be amazed if things have changed that drastically in a year and a half.

Do you have more recent polling to back up your assertions?

[DKaz]

Most of Surrey wants the Newton-Guildford LRT with Skytrain to Langley.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Have things changed that much since this poll in 2016 showed 80% support it? I would be amazed if things have changed that drastically in a year and a half.

Do you have more recent polling to back up your assertions?

Nonesense... polls can be engineered to get the desired response. Just look at election polls... wrong most of the time. I am talking about a real citizen vote after much debate from both sides and the real issues presented. No one would vote to have 104th ave reduced to 2 lanes and a new 105th ave cutting through schools, backyards, and parks. Let's talk reality and not meaningless polls.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Most of Surrey wants the Newton-Guildford LRT with Skytrain to Langley.

Skytrain to Langley is not part of Hep's plan. She wants everyone to get off the Skytrain at KG and get on her LRT snail to Langley. Did the 600 polled vote for that?

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Most of Surrey wants the Newton-Guildford LRT with Skytrain to Langley.

"Despite the poll results, a group calling itself SkyTrain for Surrey believes the results are misleading because the sample size is too small and that people were showing a general desire for transit expansion.

The group also cited another poll conducted in November 2014 showing that 54 per cent of respondents support an extention of SkyTrain in Surrey, with just under 30 per cent preferring a ground-level LRT.

“We are opposing the results of this poll as it is clearly fabricated to create the appearance of high LRT support, even when that is not the case,” added SkyTrain for Surrey’s Daryl Dela Cruz."

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Nonesense... polls can be engineered to get the desired response.

That doesn't mean they're all wrong. And any poll has at least a little more credibility than a guy on an Internet forum making unsubstantiated claims.

[casper]

When Skytrain was first being built we called it Advanced LRT.

If we all chip in and buy a bunch of LRT bumper-stickers for the skytrain cars and explain how it is LRT with Advanced high-tech features perhaps the politicians will not notice the difference and we can move on with building and extension to UBC and Langley.

We are playing with semantics on this.

Some basic principles:
- running trains with automation is cheaper than having drivers in the train.
- segregated lines are better that sharing lines with traffic
- no one likes railways crossings on busy roads.
- Politian are in love with fare gates. To make fare gates work it best to have fare paid zones in stations, and dedicated secure stations instead of boarding trains for the sidewalk.
- Canadian are pragmatic people. They just want reliable transit, if they have to put LRT bumper stickers onto metro cars to keep the mayor happy and move the project forward, so be it.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Its only appealing to developers who can use it to sell apartment and condos to millennials who are intrigued about riding a trolley to the local hipster bar.
The citizens dont want it, its the city who wants it pulled by puppet strings attached to developers

Lol pretty good explanation. And the homeless to their bottle depot and bike chop shops.

[artmarkii]

I believe the Surrey Now Leader once ran an online poll a month or two ago. It had a choice of whether people preferred to build more SkyTrain or LRT and about 87% of respondents favored SkyTrain.