Manitoba | Provincial Politics

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by biguc

Meanwhile, Pallister is doing a — job. Looks like the next provincial election will be a tough one. At least Kinew has a few years to make people forget about his checkered past. Or at least throw the zombie of Sellinger out of the party, physically.

Kinew could be forgiven if he was in another profession. However, there is absolutely no way that the average citizen is going to overlook not only his many brushes with the law, all of them after he attended University, well into his mid 20's, but his hip hop lyrics about bragging about which girl is going to swallow his — on a certain date (late 20s), along with his fat chick jokes and his fondness for sticking his — into various "sluts."

His tweets go right up to five years ago, where he bragged about visiting a poor reserve, mocking the residents, while talking about his privileged upbringing (early 30s). As recently as 2015, the court was garnishing his wages for not paying speeding tickets. I shudder to think this man has a chance at leading our province one day.

I get a kick out of the NDP spin doctors, who are claiming this is a PC smear campaign. It's not. I have no love for Palliser, but I would never vote for the NDP with Kinew at the helm. I can only hope a new party emerges by 2020 (similar to Brad Wall's Saskatchewan Party).

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Is the healthcare "premiums" thing that Pallister is proposing, just a "Made in Manitoba" version of Obamacare?

I haven't done any reading up on it, as it was just proposed this past week.
.

It sounds much like what Alberta did for several years. Unless you were low income, you paid about $45.00 a month premium for HealthCare. I'm not certain if that is what Palliser has in mind, but it does not sound very promising.

[Hecate]

I can officially say that I am done with the NDP in this province. The party should be distancing itself from this guy but they chose to make him a leader. I really used to love the guy when he was working for the CBC. He did a lot to educate people in Manitoba and Canada about aboriginal issues. However while he was doing that he was making derogative and downright offensive remarks regarding indigenous women and children. Add to that the homophobic tweets, the sexist tweets, the DUIs, the assaults, the guy is a —. He's the definition of the word narcissist. He does not deserve to be eleceted as leader of the opposition. How on earth could a party that prides itself on inclusion and equality elect a guy that has allegedly abused another person? The NDP are done. You cannot recover from that kind of stupidity. The thing I find most shocking though is the amount of women defending this guy. Maybe the Manitoba NDP have some room for Jian Gomeshi.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Hecate

I can officially say that I am done with the NDP in this province. The party should be distancing itself from this guy but they chose to make him a leader. I really used to love the guy when he was working for the CBC. He did a lot to educate people in Manitoba and Canada about aboriginal issues. However while he was doing that he was making derogative and downright offensive remarks regarding indigenous women and children. Add to that the homophobic tweets, the sexist tweets, the DUIs, the assaults, the guy is a —. He's the definition of the word narcissist. He does not deserve to be eleceted as leader of the opposition. How on earth could a party that prides itself on inclusion and equality elect a guy that has allegedly abused another person? The NDP are done. You cannot recover from that kind of stupidity. The thing I find most shocking though is the amount of women defending this guy. Maybe the Manitoba NDP have some room for Jian Gomeshi.

[windypeg]

They have definitely lost any and all credibility on the issue of missing & murdered indigenous women. An indigenous woman came forward and they tossed her aside like yesterday's trash.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by windypeg

They have definitely lost any and all credibility on the issue of missing & murdered indigenous women. An indigenous woman came forward and they tossed her aside like yesterday's trash.

I agree 100%! The way the women of the NDP tossed her aside is disgusting. Just imagine what these women, who are defending wab, would be saying if the conservatives elected an outright homophobic, sexist, allegedly abusive criminal.

[esquire]

I'd be willing to give Wab the benefit of the doubt on his past misdeeds on the basis that people do change and grow up... personally, I'd hate to be judged by the stuff I did and said when I was 20. My issue with him is that I don't think he delivers much substance or depth. People can say what they want about Selinger or Pallister, but you can't dispute that both of them understand the issues and "get it". Conversely, when I've heard Wab give interviews he does not sound like someone who really has much depth of understanding at all... he reminds me a bit of the former Liberal Leader Rana Bokhari in that regard. Unless something changes drastically, the Tories will eat him alive in the next election.

[LilZebra]

Narcissists/Sociopaths/Psychopaths never change.

Stop assuming that they're like you. They're not.

There are two types of souls in the whole Universe (contained in planets, star systems, galaxies)

1) Service to Others (light souls, "here, I'll help you with ___", Children of God)
2) Service to Self (dark souls, "what's in it for me?", "how can I get ahead"?, Children of Satan)

Said people have an agenda. Demons (Incarnate or not) seek to:

1) Steal
2) Kill
3) Destroy

They are "dark" souls. They are "wolves in sheeps clothing". They are not "children of God". They are not "light souls".

Wab is a "dark soul". Period.

I live with a Psychopath. He makes Demonic growl sounds when I'm near him. I confronted the issue with the owner of the house last week. Housemate says "I'm not mad at Jim". There are two Jims here and who is "I"?

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Kinew could be forgiven if he was in another profession. However, there is absolutely no way that the average citizen is going to overlook not only his many brushes with the law, all of them after he attended University, well into his mid 20's, but his hip hop lyrics about bragging about which girl is going to swallow his — on a certain date (late 20s), along with his fat chick jokes and his fondness for sticking his — into various "sluts."

His tweets go right up to five years ago, where he bragged about visiting a poor reserve, mocking the residents, while talking about his privileged upbringing (early 30s). As recently as 2015, the court was garnishing his wages for not paying speeding tickets. I shudder to think this man has a chance at leading our province one day.

I get a kick out of the NDP spin doctors, who are claiming this is a PC smear campaign. It's not. I have no love for Palliser, but I would never vote for the NDP with Kinew at the helm. I can only hope a new party emerges by 2020 (similar to Brad Wall's Saskatchewan Party).

It is funny how the NDP pilloried a liberal candidate or two in the last election for various misogynistic social media gaffes, before it came to light that Keine had been up to a lot of the same kind of thing.

A lot of people really like Kinew, though. I know women who would burn a man alive for Kinew's kind of antics who are happy he's won. Far from thinking they're hypocrites, though, that speaks to the nuance and delicacy of this problem. Like Esquire said, guys in their twenties get into some stupid —. And if they don't it's only because thy aren't trying. I know a lot of politically active young guys who think a career in politics is hopeless because they spent their 20s making off colour jokes. Maybe this is a sign we've culturally moved past flipping out over everything anyone's done in our privacy bereft world.

There's also the class element to this. "bad-— indigenous dude reforms his greasy ways and makes good" is a compelling narrative. And I don't know how fair it is to poor people to disqualify them from politics based on the shenanigans they've gotten into on the way up. And that's a major piece of why people are happy about Kinew winning: poor people and aboriginals are disenfranchised in our democracy; a native guy making it to the height of power in our province is a win if it convinces more people that democracy works and voting is worth it.

Sticky situation, anyway.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by biguc

It is funny how the NDP pilloried a liberal candidate or two in the last election for various misogynistic social media gaffes, before it came to light that Keine had been up to a lot of the same kind of thing.

A lot of people really like Kinew, though. I know women who would burn a man alive for Kinew's kind of antics who are happy he's won. Far from thinking they're hypocrites, though, that speaks to the nuance and delicacy of this problem. Like Esquire said, guys in their twenties get into some stupid —. And if they don't it's only because thy aren't trying. I know a lot of politically active young guys who think a career in politics is hopeless because they spent their 20s making off colour jokes. Maybe this is a sign we've culturally moved past flipping out over everything anyone's done in our privacy bereft world.

There's also the class element to this. "bad-— indigenous dude reforms his greasy ways and makes good" is a compelling narrative. And I don't know how fair it is to poor people to disqualify them from politics based on the shenanigans they've gotten into on the way up. And that's a major piece of why people are happy about Kinew winning: poor people and aboriginals are disenfranchised in our democracy; a native guy making it to the height of power in our province is a win if it convinces more people that democracy works and voting is worth it..

Kinew was never poor. He came from an upper middle class family. The problem also is what Kinew has done can't really be described as shenanigans, especially when he didn't grow up poor and disadvantaged. DUI, assault, theft, etc. can't be compared to some "off-colour jokes." I can't help but read about the people who are defending him are using his ethnic background as a reason for his troubles with the law. I can't help but think that if Kinew was not Aboriginal, would he be forgiven so easily.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Hecate

I can officially say that I am done with the NDP in this province. The party should be distancing itself from this guy but they chose to make him a leader. I really used to love the guy when he was working for the CBC. He did a lot to educate people in Manitoba and Canada about aboriginal issues. However while he was doing that he was making derogative and downright offensive remarks regarding indigenous women and children. Add to that the homophobic tweets, the sexist tweets, the DUIs, the assaults, the guy is a —. He's the definition of the word narcissist. He does not deserve to be eleceted as leader of the opposition. How on earth could a party that prides itself on inclusion and equality elect a guy that has allegedly abused another person? The NDP are done. You cannot recover from that kind of stupidity. The thing I find most shocking though is the amount of women defending this guy. Maybe the Manitoba NDP have some room for Jian Gomeshi.

The NDP are a joke in Manitoba, a fragmented party of competing groups but none really give a damn about the bottom third of the population that they are supposed to champion for. Selingers NDP was a tool of the unions to extract the most public dollars for it's members as they could with little regard for anyone else in the province or the provinces finances.

The NDP has became so pathetic that they could only find two losers to compete for party leader and they guy they chose must make Pallister sleep very well at night.

How any sane and rational person can defend Kinew for his numerous indescretions and brushes with the law, Kinew was given the benefit of doubt and had charges stayed because of his ethnicity and nothing else.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

How any sane and rational person can defend Kinew for his numerous indescretions and brushes with the law, Kinew was given the benefit of doubt and had charges stayed because of his ethnicity and nothing else.

I disagree. First Nations people are eight times more likely to be incarcerated in Canada than non-Aboriginals. The main reason being poverty. Wab's daddy is rich. Let's face it. If Wab was from a broken home in the North End. he likely would have done time like the rest of us have-nots.

[trueviking]

Few will care about his past come election time. People vote for selfish reasons, not altruistic ones. He is a young, attractive and well spoken person. I'd be nervous if I was pallister.

The 'NDP mess' thing doesn't seem to be working on his health care tax idea like it has on other cuts. It affects people and is one of those things selfish voters do care about.

[Jets4Life]

....................

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Kinew was never poor. He came from an upper middle class family. The problem also is what Kinew has done can't really be described as shenanigans, especially when he didn't grow up poor and disadvantaged. DUI, assault, theft, etc. can't be compared to some "off-colour jokes." I can't help but read about the people who are defending him are using his ethnic background as a reason for his troubles with the law. I can't help but think that if Kinew was not Aboriginal, would he be forgiven so easily.

I didn't know he came from a wealthy background. I assumed he was poor because he came from a reserve. Thanks for making me do my research.

Anyway, I'm not about to play apologist for Wab--I believe victims and all that--but this is interesting to unpack on an abstract level. Like you mentioned, aboriginal people face different challenges than others in our province, so a rags to riches narrative is still compelling. Sort of how Obama didn't have a typical African American upbringing, yet his election was still meaningful. Of course, it also didn't end racism and miraculously enfranchise black voters, like many naively thought it would.

However this shakes out, I've pretty much always voted third party in provincial elections and I don't see that changing. But atrocious political candidates seem like an inevitable bug of living in such a lightly populated place, and third parties tend to nominate kooks and losers. Last election, the Green party fielded a white boy yoga instructor who wore a turban and calls himself Loveslife. I can't even count the ways I'd rather demean myself than vote for someone like that.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Kinew was given the benefit of doubt and had charges stayed because of his ethnicity and nothing else.

Your opinion - or do you have some sort of inside information with the Crown Prosecutors office?

As far as the assault charge is concerned I think we all need to be a bit careful how we judge someone whose charges were stayed (essentially equivalent to being dropped).

Kinew has a lot to answer for, but IMO, it is unfair to him with these ridiculous articles in the FP, essentially with third party people stating as fact what happened for a charge that wasn't pursued. To me, it almost smacks of libel.

All this being said, someone with Kinew's social media and legal issue background should never run for public office in the first place. It will only end up hurting his reputation and that of his party, regardless on how "changed" he is.

[esquire]

It wouldn't surprise me if the NDP made gains in the next election, but that will be mainly because moderate Winnipeg-area voters who tend to vote NDP but voted PC last time out will return to their natural tendencies... it won't be because of Wab.

Steve Ashton and Wab Kinew both have too much baggage to pose a credible threat to Pallister, so to that extent it didn't matter all that much who the NDP picked. In reality either one would have been destined to be a placeholder leader, kind of like Stu Murray, whose job is hold the fort while the party rebuilds. Wab will probably do his duty and soldier on through two general election losses before handing the reins to someone better suited to lead.

[The Unknown Poster]

I'd never vote NDP so it doesnt really matter. But it does because they sold their soul this weekend.

Painting Wab as a troubled youth who changed is hilarious as a lot of this stuff was late 20's and into his 30's. He decided to grow up when fame and fortune and the rock star status of public service came calling.

People can and do change. But the last time he opened his mouth, ie. two days go, he was lying. The fact he can stand up, lie and claim to be standing up for women's rights is unbelievable.

You can find information all over. Wab has been well known in the Aboriginal community for years as someone to stay away from. Women in that community are used to the old "push and throw". And there is a lot of intimidation and pressure for women to be quiet. It's a mans world there.

Read the Freep story with the victim's mother. She added more detail.

Victim was hurt so badly she could barely bend her legs to get into a car the next day (to escape Wab's ongoing abuse). He dragged her down the hallway of their apartment building by her hair and threatened to throw her off the balcony.

The NDP will position this as, any criticism of Wab is racism. Thats their plan, you can bet. And come election time, a lot of women will vote for Wab, selling out their own just like all the women who have come out to attack the victim the last week.

Very sad!

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Hecate

The thing I find most shocking though is the amount of women defending this guy. Maybe the Manitoba NDP have some room for Jian Gomeshi.

The world seems to lean liberal these days, some of which covers itself under the self-identified mantle of compassion, usually for identity based classes, genders, or races. Problem is that "compassion" can include many different groups. Modern feminism has mindlessly defaulted itself to live only amidst the left, and has helped perpetuate the idea that anti-feminists must be conservative. So when an NDP candidate with Kinew's history comes through he gets the free pass because of his disdvantaged background, even though he grew up in a nice life. Which is literally what we want for a struggling native community.

Originally Posted by biguc

It is funny how the NDP pilloried a liberal candidate or two in the last election for various misogynistic social media gaffes, before it came to light that Keine had been up to a lot of the same kind of thing.

A lot of people really like Kinew, though. I know women who would burn a man alive for Kinew's kind of antics who are happy he's won. Far from thinking they're hypocrites, though, that speaks to the nuance and delicacy of this problem. Like Esquire said, guys in their twenties get into some stupid —. And if they don't it's only because thy aren't trying. I know a lot of politically active young guys who think a career in politics is hopeless because they spent their 20s making off colour jokes. Maybe this is a sign we've culturally moved past flipping out over everything anyone's done in our privacy bereft world.

There's also the class element to this. "bad-— indigenous dude reforms his greasy ways and makes good" is a compelling narrative. And I don't know how fair it is to poor people to disqualify them from politics based on the shenanigans they've gotten into on the way up. And that's a major piece of why people are happy about Kinew winning: poor people and aboriginals are disenfranchised in our democracy; a native guy making it to the height of power in our province is a win if it convinces more people that democracy works and voting is worth it.

Sticky situation, anyway.

I don't want to be dismissive, but forget the nuance... could it be that Kinew gets by because he's not conservative? Would it be this nuanced if, say, Donald Trump said something off colour about women, albeit not deliberately on record?

I personally I'm very annoyed because I am conservative, think Kinew has a shot, although there's no effing way anyone else with his record could probably get one.

Originally Posted by esquire

It wouldn't surprise me if the NDP made gains in the next election, but that will be mainly because moderate Winnipeg-area voters who tend to vote NDP but voted PC last time out will return to their natural tendencies... it won't be because of Wab.

Steve Ashton and Wab Kinew both have too much baggage to pose a credible threat to Pallister, so to that extent it didn't matter all that much who the NDP picked. In reality either one would have been destined to be a placeholder leader, kind of like Stu Murray, whose job is hold the fort while the party rebuilds. Wab will probably do his duty and soldier on through two general election losses before handing the reins to someone better suited to lead.

That was Selinger's job though... tank Manitoba financially so that Pallister had to make so many cuts that Kinew could get in. After one term, his record will be forgotten and he'll have his stronghold on this province.

[blueandgoldguy]

Narcissistic, egotistical fellow with a shady past exemplified by videos in which he says derogatory things about women. Sound like a political leader south of the border. During the election campaign a few years from now, will Wab promise to build a wall to the west to keep Rider fans our and make Saskatchewan pay for it.

It will be interesting to see how the PCs will approach this in their attack ads on Wab in the next few years. Which of his indiscretions will be off limits, if any? Perhaps show clips of that rap video in which he makes derogatory remarks towards women (edited for tv of course) and ask the electorate if this is the type of leader they want for the province? Something else perhaps?

Maybe the PCs court the aboriginal vote more aggressively this election given Wab's proclivities?