PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Boku

They also took the Braves out of Atlanta and into the suburbs with no easy way to get there other than by car.

Pretty cool layout and investment though - makes our sports complex look pretty lame (which it is). Something like The Battery would be a great addition.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Pretty cool layout and investment though - makes our sports complex look pretty lame (which it is). Something like The Battery would be a great addition.

In a demonstration of how grown up Atlanta is becoming, Fulton County voted against subsidies for the replacement stadium/complex.

The prevailing attitude was that there are many higher and better uses for land inside the perimeter. I have a lot of friends from inside the Perimeter, and they all were universally against the stadium. They recognize it's a white elephant and they are among the growing contingent of Atlantans who've lived in more dense cities and want more of that density in Atlanta. (They have a chance at developing it given Atlanta's fast pace of growth).

Hence, it went to Cobb. Where suburbanites think stadiums are supposed to be "easily accessible", blah blah blah.

Atlanta also has unincorporated zones in Fulton County which are opting INTO Atlanta. They'd rather be a part of the city proper than the county. Can you imagine? I'm thinking specifically of Druid Hills. I think there are other examples but that is one that comes to mind that I've been told about recently.

[Nova08]

I've worked at the Navy Yard and love the rapid evolution. But I just really don't want to see Amazon at the Navy Yard. The NY has several anchor tenants in Urban and GSK and you might be able to place one or two others in there. To me the NY is best suited for small to mid-sized companies or smaller satellite offices of larger companies.

In the immediate NY boundary:
1 mid-range hotel
1 full service restaurant, ~3 lunch places
No 24/7 residents and an ongoing semi-legal conversation with the Navy to finally let that happen
The need for at least 15 four story buildings for full Amazon build out, not even sure there are that many plots left.
A subway line that is at least 15 years off, will cost billions, and still won't go into South Jersey like it should.


That said, I completely agree that it makes sense to lay out all of this development for Amazon so they see how the city is creating multiple innovation/business centers

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

The three sites Philly is pitching to Amazon



http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...illy-is-pitching-to-amazon-20170915.html

Man, if Amazon does choose Philly - or even if it is publicly acknowledged that we come in a close second or third - imagine how many other companies will begin to (finally) seriously consider this city for relocation. We need a big win, place, or show to change the Perception Thing.

Also, the discussion of the Navy Yard was interesting. The diversity of options that this city can offer to Amazon and any partners that it might draw here is amazing.

If the Navy Yard currently doesn't offer the connectivity/proximity that SY or UC Square does, they should slip a subway extension study into the package. Problem solved. If Amazon or enough of its "hangers on" move to the Navy Yard, that would be more than enough justification to proceed.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Nova08

A subway line that is at least 15 years off, will cost billions, and still won't go into South Jersey like it should.

Not sure of the price tag, but the public investment would look a lot more like it is in the direct public interest (and not a corporate hand out) if development of an area the size of CC really takes off.

As for extending it into S. Jersey, I'm sure that WOULD cost billions. I don't think the area around National Park has enough commuters to justify the cost. There's not much there there now development wise either. That would be a speculative economic development that would mainly benefit NJ (and I don't see them paying for it). Getting S. Jersey rail service (over many existing old routes) that would connect more directly with Patco and come over the bridge into the city would be a better expenditure of NJ dollars.

[Redddog]

I think the Navy Yard feels a lot like the sites that Chicago was proposing - out of the way and in need of infrastructure to make them work.

Schuylkill Yards (or U City) is smack dab in a major urban setting with land available for development. It would be like finding 20 acres of developable land in midtown Manhattan. It literally has everything but the shiny image.

If it's apples to apples, that has to be the most suitable, check-all-the-boxes sites in the country. The question is whether or not this whole thing is a sham, created to push their already chosen city into a sweetheart deal that wouldn't come without a bidding war.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Pretty cool layout and investment though - makes our sports complex look pretty lame (which it is). Something like The Battery would be a great addition.

Maybe I'm missing something, regardless of how nice the new Braves stadium is, its still just a stadium out in the burbs, surrounded by parking lots, with no transit. How is that more cool then having 3 stadiums surrounded by parking lots, with a subway connection and alittle bit of entertainment in the mix, maybe a casino in the future, several miles from the city core? I'm not trying to build up the S. Philly sports area into something special, it is what it is, and there's room to grow, but how is it "lame"?
Wasn't the investment----the county saying to the Braves if you come here we will build it and give you all the parking and naming rights and anything else you want?

[themaguffin]

I'd support Pittsburgh in a heartbeat if Philly weren't in the running, but there is 100% a very real attitudes in the state, especially prevalent amongst more rural political leaders that Philly is Sodom and Pittsburgh is more wholesome and Pennsylvanian.

Pittsburgh has to deal with the rural divide just like Philly does.

If Pittsburgh and Philly representation were more united it would be helpful yes.

[themaguffin]

In a demonstration of how grown up Atlanta is becoming, Fulton County voted against subsidies for the replacement stadium/complex.

As they should have, Turner Field wasn't even 20 years old, but Atlanta deserves no pat on the back, it just opened a new Falcons stadium and the GA Dome wasn't that much older than Turner Field.

The prevailing attitude was that there are many higher and better uses for land inside the perimeter.

Not really, the city wanted them, but Cobb County's lead commissioner had a secret deal that snagged the Braves. Cobb residents never got a say, let alone a vote on it.

[sayitaintso]

City put up a new site that allows all citizens to volunteer or give input on best ideas/practices.

https://beta.phila.gov/departments/mayor/help-make-sure-phillydelivers-for-amazon/

Im still skeptical the decision hasn't already been made but Ill probable still give my 2 cents.

Could just as easily cut an paste most of the last week's worth of our conversations to the site...

[sayitaintso]

Also sign the petition I suppose...

http://thinkbigphilly.com/

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Also sign the petition I suppose...

http://thinkbigphilly.com/

Signed! Will put my two cents in to the other link when I get a chance as well.

[summersm343]

New bill in city council!

This has one to pass! The bill would eliminate the Business Net Income Tax for all "mega companies" who move to the city of Philadelphia. Obviously this is in response to Amazon.

This would eliminate the business income tax, on top of the already reduced taxes at Schuylkill Yards for being a KOZ zone.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Signed! Will put my two cents in to the other link when I get a chance as well.

Same here. Would be great to see them actually get the 1 million signatures they're seeking.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

New bill in city council!

This has one to pass! The bill would eliminate the Business Net Income Tax for all "mega companies" who move to the city of Philadelphia. Obviously this is in response to Amazon.

This would eliminate the business income tax, on top of the already reduced taxes at Schuylkill Yards for being a KOZ zone.

I thought the KOZ zone already did eliminate the city business tax, but I definitely want this to pass. Further, it should be tweaked so that it can apply to any "mega employer" that brings massive amounts of jobs and capital investment/construction to the city. This pretty much only can apply to Amazon. But if some other massive relocation occurred that added "only" 20,000 jobs to the city, I think that company should get the same break.

[Skyscraper.Phanatic]

Any company with over 2,000 employees should get a break. Look at the firms that left Penn and Provident Mutual, Scott Paper, Atlantic Richfield (ARCO Petroleum), Sun Oil and Lincoln Financial. Not to mention Vanguard

[Skyscraper.Phanatic]

I forgot to mention manufacturers like Progress Lighting (to Mexico), The Budd Company , Bottany 500. Smithkline mfr to Cidra P.R. and now possibly Cardone industries to Mexico. There are too may others to list over 200,000 manufacturing jobs lost

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Maybe I'm missing something, regardless of how nice the new Braves stadium is, its still just a stadium out in the burbs, surrounded by parking lots, with no transit. How is that more cool then having 3 stadiums surrounded by parking lots, with a subway connection and alittle bit of entertainment in the mix, maybe a casino in the future, several miles from the city core? I'm not trying to build up the S. Philly sports area into something special, it is what it is, and there's room to grow, but how is it "lame"?
Wasn't the investment----the county saying to the Braves if you come here we will build it and give you all the parking and naming rights and anything else you want?

You're missing enough, yes. Google The Battery Atlanta. It's a lame and faux city, but for a stadium complex, it's actually pretty cool (I've spent significant time at the complex for random reasons). Our stadium complex, however, is 3 buildings swimming in a sea of massive asphalt parking lots whose only saving grace is a Wal Mart turned sports bar (xfinity live) - an architectural abomination.

No one is more critical of Atlanta sports than I am, but they don't really have a true urban core, so location for a venue like this is moot - from an investment and experience perspective, far better than S. Philly wastelands.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You're missing enough, yes. Google The Battery Atlanta. It's a lame and faux city, but for a stadium complex, it's actually pretty cool (I've spent significant time at the complex for random reasons). Our stadium complex, however, is 3 buildings swimming in a sea of massive asphalt parking lots whose only saving grace is a Wal Mart turned sports bar (xfinity live) - an architectural abomination.

No one is more critical of Atlanta sports than I am, but they don't really have a true urban core, so location for a venue like this is moot - from an investment and experience perspective, far better than S. Philly wastelands.

I'll build up the stadium complex. It's all the sports teams in one place. I've brought friends from other cities to games down there and they're always quick to comment on how cool it is. Is there lots of parking? Yes, you see that at most stadiums, we limit the overall amount of asphalt by having everything clustered. Also, it's been a while, but when teams are good and games overlap, the atmosphere is incredible. I'll never forget the tailgate for the Phillies World Series/Eagles Giants game. It's smart city planning, but there is room for improvement. XFINITY Live was a start, a sports museum and casino would both be steps in the right direction too.

[Boku]

John Fry steps up:

Build here, Amazon - Philly's your city, Drexel president says

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/bu...city-drexel-president-says-20170918.html