Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Name me one transit line that was put in place purely to move people, and not for other 'sinister' reasons.

I have no problem with transit lines that are chosen for benefits besides their ability to move people. But I'd say the Canada Line was chosen largely to move people. Langara and Oakridge are both along Cambie Street and were likely the deciding factors in choosing that route.

That being said, it doesn't matter how other transit lines were decided on. I'm just saying what my preferred approach is. If we're weighing factors on transit routing and technology, moving people should at least weigh 70%.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It's still not as — as rail - and the trolley lines are expensive to install.

They still have to install a single line of overhead power for the street car so it is just as expensive. I wish they would just shelve the whole thing...

[scryer]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

because Surrey wants everyone to know they are one of the "cool kids". A bus doesn't have the same visual impact as a tram. Of course, this whole glorified streetcar is a vanity project from the start. They want their stupid photo op and when people realize how overpriced and unreliable it is, they'd be long gone.

I hear those things are awfully loud...

There's also the fact that Surrey is expecting the rest of the Lower mainland to pay taxes for LRT operation as well, and that doesn't sit too well with me.

Personally I'm comfortable paying taxes for a rapid transit system that makes sense for the second highest population in the province. But again, that rapid transit system has to make sense. LRT does not... Not in this case.

Again a Skytrain to Langley plus a real BRT solution from Guildford to Newton is something that makes sense both cost-wise and effectiveness.

[logicbomb]

Attended a recent stakeholder meeting. Not much progression for the Surrey LRT project. 100th Ave is badly lagging behind schedule plus there have been more opposition to the 105th Ave throughway than anticipated.

You really get the sense that this project is dead for the foreseeable future (next 5 years).

[Metro-One]

Hopefully so.

Would be nice if they eventually decided to build the segment out to Langley first (as an extension of the Expo Line of course)

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by scryer

Again a Skytrain to Langley plus a real BRT solution from Guildford to Newton is something that makes sense both cost-wise and effectiveness.

My family in Newton says almost the same thing (and Skytrain to Langley won't directly help them). For the time being the 96B-Line is fine since they put bus / bike lanes in along a chunk of King George

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Attended a recent stakeholder meeting. Not much progression for the Surrey LRT project. 100th Ave is badly lagging behind schedule plus there have been more opposition to the 105th Ave throughway than anticipated.

You really get the sense that this project is dead for the foreseeable future (next 5 years).

Hardly surprising - the more people know about the project, the less they like it.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Hopefully so.

Would be nice if they eventually decided to build the segment out to Langley first (as an extension of the Expo Line of course)

That was one of the things I mentioned when I e-mailed Bowinn Ma (parliamentary secretary for TransLink). It doesn't need to be done all at once - doing it in two or three phases makes a lot of sense.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Attended a recent stakeholder meeting. Not much progression for the Surrey LRT project. 100th Ave is badly lagging behind schedule plus there have been more opposition to the 105th Ave throughway than anticipated.

You really get the sense that this project is dead for the foreseeable future (next 5 years).

The 105th road is poorly placed. It goes through a school yard, apartment complex, and a park. If this is sacrificed for a street car, all the more reason to scrap it. The 105th issue won't go away and Mayor H better be careful if she hopes to get re-elected in 2018. She ran on the street car promise the first time around.

[flipper316]

http://www.surreynowleader.com/news/surr...ce-to-hurry-up-lest-lrt-price-tag-rises/

[Metro-One]

—, this is going to be a disaster...

I really hope the new NDP don't just sign off on this to make the mayors happy. The segment to Langley must be Skytrain!

The vast majority of bloggers and professionals that have any interest and knowledge in mass transit that I have seen are agreeing with Skytrain now.

Surrey sees this so they want to put the pressure on in hopes that the new NDP will make a snap decision.

No GMB and LRT to Langley is the worst outcome for me...

Oh well, at least I won the last time around (Evergreen Skytrain and PMB)

And I guess at the very least the Broadway extension will be done correctly.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by flipper316

http://www.surreynowleader.com/news/surr...ce-to-hurry-up-lest-lrt-price-tag-rises/

why doesnt TansLink just get rid of Surrey from the service area and let Surrey go it alone?

they would end all bus service, build the SkyTrain to Langley and then charge a useage fee to the City of Surrey for all the SkyTrain in Surrey City Limits, and by # of stations in the city. then they could also charge a certain amount for the amount of density spurred on by SkyTrain and get money through that.

imagine all the money saved by TransLink when they stop having to run bus service after bus service that loses money in Surrey. plus this gives Surrey the option of doing it themselves since they always seem to complain about crappy service.

seems like a good idea since all Surrey does is complain about not getting service, wants a very expensive to build and operate LRT that wont help commuters, and took 20yrs to actually start meaningful development around SkyTrain stations. everyone wins since Surrey can do 100% anything they want without having to ask for approval from anyone else. the other municipality tax payers win since they aren't stuck paying for Surrey's stupid ideas.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

why doesnt TansLink just get rid of Surrey from the service area and let Surrey go it alone?

they would end all bus service, build the SkyTrain to Langley and then charge a useage fee to the City of Surrey for all the SkyTrain in Surrey City Limits, and by # of stations in the city. then they could also charge a certain amount for the amount of density spurred on by SkyTrain and get money through that.

I do agree with cutting Surrey out of Translink if they want to build LRT. LRT is way too expensive and too insignificant for the entire Lower Mainland to support for one area's minute benefit. A skytrain extension to Langley is cheaper to operate AND it connects the ENTIRE region through Surrey, towards Langley.

imagine all the money saved by TransLink when they stop having to run bus service after bus service that loses money in Surrey. plus this gives Surrey the option of doing it themselves since they always seem to complain about crappy service.

seems like a good idea since all Surrey does is complain about not getting service, wants a very expensive to build and operate LRT that wont help commuters, and took 20yrs to actually start meaningful development around SkyTrain stations. everyone wins since Surrey can do 100% anything they want without having to ask for approval from anyone else. the other municipality tax payers win since they aren't stuck paying for Surrey's stupid ideas.

A couple of points:

1. 20 years ago there was a very different mentality about Surrey, and generally, about highrise neighbourhoods. Surrey took a turn for the better when the previous mayor saw Surrey's potential and began to catalyze amazing redevelopments in Surrey Central and the city. 20 years ago, it was an incredibly different Surrey than what we see today, and what we will see in the next 5 years.

2. Surrey has the second highest population in Metro Van, and it is also (you can correct me if I'm wrong) the least dense and one of the most spread out Suburban cities as well. So it makes sense that the most complaints come from Surrey. Because you have the second most population inhabiting a vast area that is fairly far away from Vancouver.

3. Another reason for these complaints, and IMO a blessing in disguise, is that when the Skytrain was introduced to the region, and then extended into Surrey, it created a region-wide culture that strongly praises public transit. And with the reliable skytrain and relatively reliable bus service, public transit actually became feasible for people to use in their everyday lives. Therefore we have a generation of people that want to leave their cars at home and use public transit. Now there are other cultural influences on the Vancity region's attitudes on public transit but I'm not gonna get into that .

As for the future, I do see what you mean about cutting Surrey out of the picture and letting them administer their own transit. If Surrey wants to build their own LRT network, I definitely say that it should be exempt from Translink's funds (read: other municipalities taxes). However I feel that if Surrey was to independently pursue its own transit administration (at this time) that it would be very difficult to extend the Expo line any further without a —-ton of red-tape and legal mumbo-jumbo.

I've said it on here many times but I personally feel that this whole LRT business is a decoy to draw Translink's attention to Surrey. Remember the Evergreen Line LRT? I think that this is a similar political strategy.

These are just my thoughts .

[cganuelas1995]

If they want it as a vanity thing, they should look for historical streetcar routes, if any, that previously operated in the City of Surrey and resurrect them. That's a vanity project.

[swimmer_spe]

Part of me wonders if the Surrey city councilors are smarter than we give them credit.

Before the LRT announcement, there may not have been much of a desire to extend the Skytrain. Now, they are likely the next project after the UBC extension. Maybe even sooner.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

—, this is going to be a disaster...

I really hope the new NDP don't just sign off on this to make the mayors happy. The segment to Langley must be Skytrain!

The vast majority of bloggers and professionals that have any interest and knowledge in mass transit that I have seen are agreeing with Skytrain now.

Surrey sees this so they want to put the pressure on in hopes that the new NDP will make a snap decision.

No GMB and LRT to Langley is the worst outcome for me...

Oh well, at least I won the last time around (Evergreen Skytrain and PMB)

And I guess at the very least the Broadway extension will be done correctly.

Skytrain is originally a Social Credit project but the NDP continued the expansion with the Millennium Line. If Horgan signs off using the street car from KG east along Fraser Hwy, it would be a huge boondoggle. How could the mayors even think this is a good idea? So People using this line from Langley/Surrey going west have to switch technologies at KG? We would be the laughing stock of the outside world.

[SpongeG]

this was posted on youtube recently

• Video Link

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

SHow could the mayors even think this is a good idea?

The Mayors council votes are proportional to population of the cities so if Surrey and Vancouver agree on something they can pretty much force it through. Vancouver wants and needs the Broadway subway so as poor of a choice as the LRT in Surrey is as long as Surrey is willing to move along Broadway Vancouver will support whatever Surrey wants to do.

Personally I think that plans for LRT in Surrey are the worst possible option but if it is the compromise that gets the mayors council to agree on moving Broadway forward I will go along with it. Hopefully the province will step in or there is an upset in the municipal election next year but if not so be it.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by bardak

The Mayors council votes are proportional to population of the cities so if Surrey and Vancouver agree on something they can pretty much force it through. Vancouver wants and needs the Broadway subway so as poor of a choice as the LRT in Surrey is as long as Surrey is willing to move along Broadway Vancouver will support whatever Surrey wants to do.

Personally I think that plans for LRT in Surrey are the worst possible option but if it is the compromise that gets the mayors council to agree on moving Broadway forward I will go along with it. Hopefully the province will step in or there is an upset in the municipal election next year but if not so be it.

I think they should split TransLink into 2 divisions: TransLink North of Fraser and TransLink South of Fraser, seeing as there are 2, what I like to call "superpowers" (main cities) in the TransLink jurisdiction. Vancouver and everything obviously NoF (Mission included) will be TransLink NoF, with their mayors in that council and Surrey, Delta, White Rock, the Langleys, maybe even Abbotsford, will be TransLink SoF. They'll both be part of the same agency, just two different divisions that obviously have different priorities that won't try to interfere with each other.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I think they should split TransLink into 2 divisions: TransLink North of Fraser and TransLink South of Fraser, seeing as there are 2, what I like to call "superpowers" (main cities) in the TransLink jurisdiction. Vancouver and everything obviously NoF (Mission included) will be TransLink NoF, with their mayors in that council and Surrey, Delta, White Rock, the Langleys, maybe even Abbotsford, will be TransLink SoF. They'll both be part of the same agency, just two different divisions that obviously have different priorities that won't try to interfere with each other.

That actually sounds like a good idea but as we all know different cities and mayors can't come to an agreement on simple things. Look at New West and Coquitlam with that — rinky dink Bailey Bridge.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by scryer

I do agree with cutting Surrey out of Translink if they want to build LRT.

We are spoiled by having a single integrated transit system that covers the entire region with a unified fare structure and ease of transfers. If the system is ever split I suspect that an awful lot of people will suddenly discover that it's not such a great idea.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by flipper316

That actually sounds like a good idea but as we all know different cities and mayors can't come to an agreement on simple things. Look at New West and Coquitlam with that — rinky dink Bailey Bridge.

I think you're confusing a lack of common interests over which agreements can be made with a lack of ability to make agreements.

New Westminster doesn't have any interest in being more of a traffic sewer than it already is. Improving the United-Braid connection makes this a more attractive route for vehicular traffic, pushing more congestion onto Columbia, which is not exactly a win-win outcome.

Compare to, say, the whole ten year mayors plan that the mayors agreed to over all sorts of things simple and complex