PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[christof]

Originally Posted by Boku

In the Schuylkill Yards unveiling last year, Jerry Sweeney specifically said it "is not a corporate campus. It's a fully-engaged ecosystem." Funny how things change!

Also notes that it was designed to create 15,000 new jobs. Can it handle up to 50k?

https://philly.curbed.com/2016/3/2/11147980/drexel-unveils-schuylkill-yards-renderings

Doesn't include anything north of the train station itself (Amtrak land) Cira Center 2, or even the parking lot at Penn Park. 30th Street can handle 50,000 new jobs.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Boku

In the Schuylkill Yards unveiling last year, Jerry Sweeney specifically said it "is not a corporate campus. It's a fully-engaged ecosystem." Funny how things change!

Also notes that it was designed to create 15,000 new jobs. Can it handle up to 50k?

https://philly.curbed.com/2016/3/2/11147980/drexel-unveils-schuylkill-yards-renderings

Yes, it can absolutely handle 50k. Build 10 supertalls, each holding 5k employees.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Jsiegel

Pittsburgh is a not a viable candidate, too small, too isolated, lacks the required public transportation and other transit hubs set out by Amazon.

Those provincial homers from western PA better not nuke this because they won't support a Philly bid.

Though guess at the end of the day it's a question of what the state and city can offer, if Amazon is looking at Philly, would those senators say Pittsburgh or bust to them?

If this whole contest is largely about how big of a bribe can Amazon talk itself into receiving, then Philly certainly needs the State's willingness to be a big time player. But you touched on my fear regarding the State-----there's a lot of Philly hate state wide and certainly in the state house. I wouldn't be surprised if the State got behind a bid from Scranton before any from Philly.

Someone up thread said the governor controls most of the state grant type money. But I think the amount and type of what will be included in the Amazon bribe is going to require the State house and senate sign off on it. If Pittsburgh is out of the running, because lets say Amazon names 3 finalists, and Philly is still in play but not Pittsburgh, maybe then the State would willingly go along with the program.


Why can't the State put together a basic package, or at least a dollar amount which could be spent on a package, and let each city pretty much have the same level of state aid to include with their proposal. Is there a down side to that idea? Or should Philly get more just out of principal?


One other factor I don't care for is if Philly wins and in 10years Amazon has 8K employees working in the 30th St. area. Hopefully a goodly amount of those 8K souls will live in the City, but many will not. But as the bribe is put together are any of the surrounding counties going to bring any gold to the table, even tho Amazon would have a big plus impact on the whole area. I don't think so.

The surrounding counties are more then glad to enjoy the positives that Philly offers, but as soon as the City wants some help, then the song starts to include all the negatives, wage tax, wage tax, welfare and school payments. It shouldn't be such a one way street.

[Jsiegel]

Originally Posted by City Wide

If this whole contest is largely about how big of a bribe can Amazon talk itself into receiving, then Philly certainly needs the State's willingness to be a big time player. But you touched on my fear regarding the State-----there's a lot of Philly hate state wide and certainly in the state house. I wouldn't be surprised if the State got behind a bid from Scranton before any from Philly.

Someone up thread said the governor controls most of the state grant type money. But I think the amount and type of what will be included in the Amazon bribe is going to require the State house and senate sign off on it. If Pittsburgh is out of the running, because lets say Amazon names 3 finalists, and Philly is still in play but not Pittsburgh, maybe then the State would willingly go along with the program.


Why can't the State put together a basic package, or at least a dollar amount which could be spent on a package, and let each city pretty much have the same level of state aid to include with their proposal. Is there a down side to that idea? Or should Philly get more just out of principal?


One other factor I don't care for is if Philly wins and in 10years Amazon has 8K employees working in the 30th St. area. Hopefully a goodly amount of those 8K souls will live in the City, but many will not. But as the bribe is put together are any of the surrounding counties going to bring any gold to the table, even tho Amazon would have a big plus impact on the whole area. I don't think so.

The surrounding counties are more then glad to enjoy the positives that Philly offers, but as soon as the City wants some help, then the song starts to include all the negatives, wage tax, wage tax, welfare and school payments. It shouldn't be such a one way street.

"there's a lot of Philly hate state wide and certainly in the state house. I wouldn't be surprised if the State got behind a bid from Scranton before any from Philly."

Absolutely, 100% true. If it's up to Wolf regarding a package we have less of an issue, but most of the state views Philadelphia as being on Mars, and Pittsburgh as the "real" city of Pennsylvania, which is idiotic.


From schools to public transit, there's a real, almost tangible hatred toward's the commonwealth's biggest city, all the more shocking when you look at states like Mass., NY or Georgia that view their metropolises as sources of pride, their state's Rome. Not so PA, drives me nuts.

It's not at all realistic that a city of Pittsburgh's size and location will win this, but a lot of these politicians would sooner sink Philadelphia's chances before they'd see it succeed.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Slick move by the Inquirer. Thanks for taking the time to run it down.

The Seattle article is the only one I read as I wasn't going to pay for philly.com trash, but did they literally copy the article and replace "Denver, or Dallas or Detroit" and otherwise leave it identical or did they paraphrase the whole thing? Pretty sure the former violates a number of journalistic canons.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

The Seattle article is the only one I read as I wasn't going to pay for philly.com trash, but did they literally copy the article and replace "Denver, or Dallas or Detroit" and otherwise leave it identical or did they paraphrase the whole thing? Pretty sure the former violates a number of journalistic canons.

The Inquirer ran the exact article, with essentially the same by-line: "by Matt Day, The Seattle Times."

Excerpt from article on the Seattle Times website, with the relevant language in bold:

It comes from the top. CEO Jeff Bezos codified some of this thinking 15 years ago with an edict that has become equal parts corporate lore and business-school cliché: Teams should be broken up into self-directed units, clusters small enough that they could be fed with two pizzas.

The two-pizza team idea, though never fully implemented across the company, was ingrained into its thinking, a standing order to remain nimble.

The question Amazon will face in its new operations is whether two-pizza teams work well if one pie is in Seattle and the other is in, say, Denver, or Dallas or Detroit.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-surprise-plan-for-hq2-is-a-bold-experiment/

Same excerpt from the article on Philly.com, and as it appeared in the print edition of the Inquirer, also with the relevant language in bold:

It comes from the top. CEO Jeff Bezos codified some of this thinking 15 years ago with an edict that has become equal parts corporate lore and business-school cliché: Teams should be broken up into self-directed units, clusters small enough that they could be fed with two pizzas.

The two-pizza team idea, though never fully implemented across the company, was ingrained into its thinking, a standing order to remain nimble.

The question Amazon will face in its new operations is whether two-pizza teams work well if one pie is in Seattle and the other is in, say, Philadelphia.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/am...rters-is-a-bold-experiment-20170913.html


As I said, slick move.

[Boku]

Someone shared this at the city-data forum. https://medium.com/migration-issues/no-room-at-the-inn-for-amazon-effda4edc00f

Pretty interesting deep dive into the data. He uses his own criteria for scoring, which may differ from Amazon's, of course, but our favorite city ends up at the top.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Boku

Someone shared this at the city-data forum. https://medium.com/migration-issues/no-room-at-the-inn-for-amazon-effda4edc00f

Pretty interesting deep dive into the data. He uses his own criteria for scoring, which may differ from Amazon's, of course, but our favorite city ends up at the top.

I know at this point I'm beating a dead horse, but Philly is truly the easiest choice they can make, if not the best.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ "What's not to like?" is the operative question. If Amazon has any sense, they'll know we're "the one" - and it should be more a matter of patching up the negatives to seal the deal.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by Jsiegel

"there's a lot of Philly hate state wide and certainly in the state house. I wouldn't be surprised if the State got behind a bid from Scranton before any from Philly."

Absolutely, 100% true. If it's up to Wolf regarding a package we have less of an issue, but most of the state views Philadelphia as being on Mars, and Pittsburgh as the "real" city of Pennsylvania, which is idiotic.


From schools to public transit, there's a real, almost tangible hatred toward's the commonwealth's biggest city, all the more shocking when you look at states like Mass., NY or Georgia that view their metropolises as sources of pride, their state's Rome. Not so PA, drives me nuts.

It's not at all realistic that a city of Pittsburgh's size and location will win this, but a lot of these politicians would sooner sink Philadelphia's chances before they'd see it succeed.

Travel to upstate NY and you will see sheer hatred of NYC. It isn't limited to Pennsylvania.

I bet Philly has a shot to land Amazon but I disagree that Pittsburgh's chance is unrealistic.

[Milksteak]

It continues to amaze me how much Philly is ignored on a national level. On a CNBC article about Walmart opening up offices in Bentonville Arkansas, they mentioned a blurb about Amazon, then actually embedded a video called 'Could Boston be Amazon's second home?'. The video is less than a minute long, and mentions prestigious schools, transit, and proximity to an airport (didn't even mention the east coast locale), but it was so random to pretty much include an advertisement for Boston in an article about Walmart. Here is the article in question:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/15/wal-mart-planning-new-home-office-in-bentonville-arkansas.html

All 3 of those items are absolutely checked off by Philly, not to mention Boston ain't cheap these days. I've thought Boston was our biggest 'competitor' since they announced this, and still are. And I will reiterate that Boston is a great city, I just truly think we offer a better scenario at this point.

[Jsiegel]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

Travel to upstate NY and you will see sheer hatred of NYC. It isn't limited to Pennsylvania.

I bet Philly has a shot to land Amazon but I disagree that Pittsburgh's chance is unrealistic.

I maybe overstating their affection for the city itself, but the point is no one questions those cities central roles for their states-economically, culturally and sports-wise. That so many people in PA root for out of state teams or for Pittsburgh teams even if they're no where near there, says a great deal about how folks in the commonwealth views its premier city.

Win or lose, people in Georgia are all Atlanta fans, same goes for New Englanders and Boston teams-they're not switching to the Bills just because they won more Super Bowls (in fantasy land obviously).

Regarding that weird Boston promo, it does have the danger of being a self-fulfilling prophesy. A lot of people went to college there and that gives it an outsized presence in the media, etc.

The only real thing Boston brings to the table is its incredible tech talent and colleges and if that's all they need, why leave the West Coast in the first place?

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Jsiegel

Win or lose, people in Georgia are all Atlanta fans, same goes for New Englanders and Boston teams-they're not switching to the Bills just because they won more Super Bowls (in fantasy land obviously).

Atlanta has fans? Someone should tell its sports teams.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Atlanta has fans? Someone should tell its sports teams.

They also took the Braves out of Atlanta and into the suburbs with no easy way to get there other than by car.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Atlanta has fans? Someone should tell its sports teams.

One of my sisters lives in the Atlanta exurbs. Hardly anybody in her neighborhood cares about the local teams. Most folks, like her and her husband, are from somewhere else.

[themaguffin]

Pittsburgh is a not a viable candidate, too small, too isolated, lacks the required public transportation and other transit hubs set out by Amazon.

There is a lot speculation and some of the media sites have noted Pittsburgh as viable city and other lists have other cities that don't include Pittsburgh.

The fact is no city is going to be the perfect city. Pittsburgh lacks in certain areas but has relevant attributes including universities strong in technology - CMU in particular is one of the best in the country.
These attributes have brought Amazon, Google and others to Pittsburgh which are not in many peer cities or a lot of bigger cities. Pittsburgh is one of the very few robotics centers in the U.S.

I'm not saying that makes Pittsburgh a likely candidate because none of knows which city is, but it has merits.

Those provincial homers from western PA better not nuke this because they won't support a Philly bid.

Actually, unfortunately, your comment is rather provincial and sad.

I would support Philly if it were the only PA option. Would you support Pittsburgh?

Though guess at the end of the day it's a question of what the state and city can offer, if Amazon is looking at Philly, would those senators say Pittsburgh or bust to them?

or Philly or bust?


Let's not squabble like other states do.

[1487]

I see this is going to be a daily topic.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...illy-is-pitching-to-amazon-20170915.html

[Boku]

Originally Posted by 1487

I see this is going to be a daily topic.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...illy-is-pitching-to-amazon-20170915.html

Sure beats street cleaning and soda tax fights!

[summersm343]

The three sites Philly is pitching to Amazon

A week after Amazon sent cities North America-wide scrambling to compete for the e-commerce giant’s second headquarters, Philadelphia government leaders are beginning to settle on three locations to pitch most forcefully as the nucleus of a vast regional presence for the Seattle company: The Schuylkill Yards and uCity Square sites in West Philadelphia and South Philadelphia’s Navy Yard.

Philadelphia Industrial Development Corp. and Commerce Department officials devising the bid believe the three large tracts in central locations with single owners will be a draw as Amazon.com Inc. seeks a site that can smoothly accommodate an expanding corporate campus in a talent-rich locale, according to a person familiar with the city’s approach to the bid but not authorized to discuss it publicly.

The city also will present additional sites that could support satellite offices — such as those maintained throughout the area by Comcast Corp. — as well as uses complementary to Amazon’s regional presence, including vendor-company offices and housing for an expected influx of employees.

These include areas along the Delaware River waterfront, in the Callowhill neighborhood north of Center City, and along North Broad Street, as well as ones outside Philadelphia’s city limits in such places as King of Prussia, Camden and Delaware.

Commerce Department spokeswoman Lauren Cox acknowledged in an e-mail that the large West and South Philadelphia sites are among those that “rise to the top” of the city’s pitch to Amazon but stopped short of confirming them as the headliners. A PIDC spokeswoman referred questions to the Commerce Department.

“We believe the first step of this process is about Philadelphia advancing as a city that fits Amazon’s needs, not about a specific site,” Cox said.

Matt Cabray, executive director of the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce’s business-retention affiliate, Select Greater Philadelphia, said Amazon’s presence would be felt widely it it chooses the region for its second headquarters, regardless of any particular locations.

“We are collectively acting and thinking as one large community,” he said. “If this project ends up anywhere in Greater Philadelphia, we all benefit.”

By highlighting Schuylkill Yards, uCity Square, and the Navy Yard, Philadelphia can demonstrate an edge over most other cities, which don’t have similarly large, readily developable tracts, said Jay Biggins, executive managing director of site-selection consultancy BLS & Co. in Princeton, N.J.

“It’s hard to come up with sites of the scale required to handle this size development that are already under common ownership and are in densely populated major metros,” said Biggins, whose firm has helped companies including Prudential Financial Inc. and Subaru of America Inc. select sites for new headquarters and other facilities.

But Philadelphia is also wise to make sure Amazon knows about other parts of the region that can support development accompanying the growth of a new headquarters campus, if not the campus itself, said Alan Greenberger, the city’s former deputy mayor for economic development.

“There’s a need for a broader range of office accommodation that comes with the growth of any large company like that,” said Greenberger, currently a fellow with the Lindy Institute for Urban Innovation at Drexel University. “Not every business that may want to be here can afford the kinds of rents that Amazon can afford.”

The biggest of the three large sites is the Navy Yard, a decommissioned military base that sprawls some 1,200 city-owned acres along the Delaware River in South Philadelphia. It already is home to Urban Outfitters Inc.’s own expanding corporate campus, among other businesses.

With the next-largest footprint is the uCity Square proposal for 6.5 million square feet of retail, residential, office and lab space on 27 acres of existing buildings and vacant land owned by Wexford and the nonprofit University City Science Center along and north of Market Street between 34th and 39th Streets. Companies such as Eli Lilly and NRG Energy have subsidiaries in existing campus buildings, with the Cambridge Innovation Center tech incubator and others coming to the 3675 Market office tower being built at the site.

The most compact of the three is the Schuylkill Yards plan for 8 million square feet of offices and tech workshops, stores and residential towers on 14 acres owned by Brandywine and Drexel near 30th Street. Brandywine is preparing to start the plan’s first component, which includes renovating the former Bulletin office building at 3025 Market St.

Among those sites, all but the Navy Yard would likely have to grow to accommodate the company’s eventual needs, which could exceed 8 million square feet — equal to about six-and-a-half Comcast Center towers — at full build out, according to the company’s Sept. 7 request for proposals. The Navy Yard also could easily spare the 100 acres — greater than 20 full city blocks — that Amazon said it would need if its second campus were to be built on an undeveloped “greenfield.”

“The Navy Yard is expansive,” said former city commerce director James Cuorato, now president of the Independence Visitors Center. “You are dealing with more of a blank slate.”

The West Philadelphia sites, on the other hand, are closer to the city amenities that Amazon plainly wants nearby — neighborhoods with varying housing stock, transit links, university campuses, cultural attractions — but also is crammed among them, said Bill Luff, founder of commercial real estate consultancy CRE Visions. That places some limits on what can be built there but also offers greater convenience and connectivity, he said.

For example, Luff said, the city’s airport is physically closer to the Navy Yard, but accessible via train from 30th Street Station, as are points throughout the region and along the East Coast served by SEPTA and Amtrak.

As for being able to accommodate 8 million or more square feet, Luff said he could envision the planners of Schuylkill Yards and uCity Square adjusting their proposals to include more offices and less space for other uses, while potentially joining forces to share the Amazon campus.

Greenberger, the economic development director, said Amazon’s need for space could even help advance Amtrak’s scheme to cap part of the rail yard beside 30th Street Station to accommodate more growth.

“Sitting next to Schuylkill Yards are the tracks,” he said. “If you have a bona fide tenant like Amazon around, you probably have the economic clout to start covering those tracks and adding capacity like that.”

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...illy-is-pitching-to-amazon-20170915.html

[Jsiegel]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

There is a lot speculation and some of the media sites have noted Pittsburgh as viable city and other lists have other cities that don't include Pittsburgh.

The fact is no city is going to be the perfect city. Pittsburgh lacks in certain areas but has relevant attributes including universities strong in technology - CMU in particular is one of the best in the country.
These attributes have brought Amazon, Google and others to Pittsburgh which are not in many peer cities or a lot of bigger cities. Pittsburgh is one of the very few robotics centers in the U.S.

I'm not saying that makes Pittsburgh a likely candidate because none of knows which city is, but it has merits.



Actually, unfortunately, your comment is rather provincial and sad.

I would support Philly if it were the only PA option. Would you support Pittsburgh?



or Philly or bust?


Let's not squabble like other states do.

I'd support Pittsburgh in a heartbeat if Philly weren't in the running, but there is 100% a very real attitudes in the state, especially prevalent amongst more rural political leaders that Philly is Sodom and Pittsburgh is more wholesome and Pennsylvanian. When Corbett was governor, he moved state agencies west, even when it made no logistical sense. And there's how by design Philadelphia schools get the least amount of money per student of any district in the state.

The point is a lot of politicians and no doubt citizens of the commonwealth view Philadelphia as outside of PA and its best interests. My argument re: Georgia or New England is there is a sense of state cohesion (transplants to Atlanta aside).

Boston is Massachusetts' cultural (and actual capital), Atlanta is Georgia's and that those cities are those states actual capitals probably helps. But in PA, believe me, lots of Pennsylvanians could care less if Philadelphia broke away and joined New Jersey or something.

That any state leaders are even arguing against one city as opposed to the other is insane. They should be saying "come to PA, we have two great cities, and we'll work with you on either of them."


And regarding Pittsburgh's potential, it has incredible tech talent (rivaling anywhere) and is a beautiful city, but that won't change that it's a tiny metro area far away from the DC and NY, with a relatively small airport. Just don't see it happening.

But if that's where Amazon's looking, I'll be cheering for you!