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  #441  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 6:42 PM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
Delaware is putting together a package to get this HQ. Before everyone laughs at Delaware, there is something going for our state. The Bezos family was from Delaware.
Jeff Bezos has much stronger roots in Texas. The family (possibly on his mother's side) were ranchers, and his father retired to this ranch after a career in New Mexico as a regional director of the Atomic Energy Commission. Jeff Bezos attended River Oaks Elementary School in Houston from fourth to sixth grade. As a child, he spent summers working on his grandfather's ranch in southern Texas.[17]
     
     
  #442  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by YSL View Post
New York State has the most F500 companies, thanks to the economic might of NYC. California is right behind.

https://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/news/2017/06/07/new-york-fortune-500-ranking.html

NYC sure has a lot of corporations for being expensive and 'hostile' to business.
Exactly. The more states require employers to treat their workers like human beings and respect the environment, the more they are branded as 'unfriendly' to business.
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  #443  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 7:33 PM
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I know the city of Toronto is already looking at turning old brownfield land just east of the financial core into a new transit and office hub. Amazon would be a perfect company to anchor the space. Toronto is also only second to Vancouver for most livable city in North America year after year. The only thing missing in Toronto that it can't replicate at the moment from Seattle is an NFL team. In all honesty though I think this will be going to Boston.


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  #444  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 7:43 PM
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10,000 companies left in the last decade? That's it? 10K is a rounding error when you take into account how many millions of companies are located in California.
No doubt California is a company incubation ward. Many companies are created every day here and when they grow to the size they need to begin hiring, especially hiring less skilled administrative staff, they start thinking about leaving. But in a way the number of companies that leave California without signficiantly impacting its unemployment rate, which remains low, is a mesure of how healthy and productive its economy is.

But what isn't happening is a lot of mature companes like Amazon moving TO California. I'm guessing they will move somewhere east of the Mississippi, probably to a medium sized city in a state that will reward them with possibly free land, tax incentives and the rest.
     
     
  #445  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 7:54 PM
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I'm guessing they will move somewhere east of the Mississippi, probably to a medium sized city in a state that will reward them with possibly free land, tax incentives and the rest.
Nitpicking again but I wouldn't count Texas out. You should probably say east of the Great Plains then yeah. (I don't see Amazon picking El Paso or Lubbock... Austin or Dallas, though, that's very possible.)
     
     
  #446  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 7:58 PM
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Toronto is also only second to Vancouver for most livable city in North America year after year.
Vancouver is one of the least livable cities on this continent, no question. Housing is totally unaffordable, wages are really low, and the weather sucks.
     
     
  #447  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 8:10 PM
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Vancouver is one of the least livable cities on this continent, no question. Housing is totally unaffordable, wages are really low, and the weather sucks.

That's your opinion but not what global rankings state each year. I do agree with you about the housing though but in my opinion the weather is perfect.
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  #448  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 8:34 PM
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Vancouver is one of the least livable cities on this continent, no question. Housing is totally unaffordable, wages are really low, and the weather sucks.
Rent isn't actually that bad there. It's cheaper than the Bay Area, and has better transit too.
     
     
  #449  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 8:39 PM
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California is a right off. If they wanted a West Coast & Pacific time zone they would just expand Seattle. Denver would be a good choice but again I think Amazon is looking for a city at least east of the Mississippi.

I still don't think it will go to NYC because I just have the feeling that if it was then Amazon would have just announced it but maybe they are just trying to make it look like a race to get as much government largees as possible.

Chicago and Philly both have a lot of attributes but again I think their murder/crime rates are going to hurt them. They have to be able to draw international and continental labour and getting people to move into such dangerous places will be a hard sell. Remember they not only have to get the workers but also have to keep them. That meaans not only safety for themselves but also for their kids. There is a good reason why Chicago is declining in population.........it's dangerous and also very important Chicago {and most large urban US centres} have horrid innder city schools. Again that is where quality of life is not only good for living but also sound economic policy.

This is why I still think it's going to come down to Boston, Toronto, or Washington. Montreal has a great creative class, universities, urbanity, and universities but the French factor would make it harder to recruit people and Trudeau International is not a very well connected airport, foreign or domestic.

Toronto has the advantage over Washington and Boston as being far cheaper due to the dollar but conversely in a Trump "America first" enviornment it maybe a hard sell.
     
     
  #450  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 8:50 PM
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This HBR article from 2001 about Boeing's move to Chicago is worth reading. There's a number of interesting parallels with what's happening now with Amazon.

Inside Boeing's Big Move
...

Because of the nature of the business, we knew that we needed to remain in the United States. But we do business with 145 countries, and we have significant operations in 26 states. Seattle, southern California, Wichita, Philadelphia, and St. Louis—we have major operations in all of these sites. So we were looking for a place that would minimize travel time throughout the country and internationally and that would also give government leaders and financial markets in Washington, DC, New York, and abroad access to us. We needed a central location near a major airport. Based on that consideration and a number of others [for the full list of the selection criteria, see the accompanying exhibit], we very rapidly narrowed our choices.

You were in charge of the site evaluation process for those three cities. How did you go about it?

First, we decided to go public with the search. Most companies try to keep headquarters’ searches secret. They quietly collect information, and when they announce that they’re moving, they’ve already picked the site. We saw that it would be impossible to gather all the data we needed in such a short time without going public. In retrospect, making the announcement was very much to our advantage. We were given a lot more information than we even needed. Even though we said we were considering only three cities, I have a stack of material in the corner of my office that’s literally about three feet high from various places—big and little cities.

Full article at https://hbr.org/2001/10/inside-boeings-big-move
     
     
  #451  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
California is a right off. If they wanted a West Coast & Pacific time zone they would just expand Seattle. Denver would be a good choice but again I think Amazon is looking for a city at least east of the Mississippi.

I still don't think it will go to NYC because I just have the feeling that if it was then Amazon would have just announced it but maybe they are just trying to make it look like a race to get as much government largees as possible.

Chicago and Philly both have a lot of attributes but again I think their murder/crime rates are going to hurt them. They have to be able to draw international and continental labour and getting people to move into such dangerous places will be a hard sell. Remember they not only have to get the workers but also have to keep them. That meaans not only safety for themselves but also for their kids. There is a good reason why Chicago is declining in population.........it's dangerous and also very important Chicago {and most large urban US centres} have horrid innder city schools. Again that is where quality of life is not only good for living but also sound economic policy.

This is why I still think it's going to come down to Boston, Toronto, or Washington. Montreal has a great creative class, universities, urbanity, and universities but the French factor would make it harder to recruit people and Trudeau International is not a very well connected airport, foreign or domestic.

Toronto has the advantage over Washington and Boston as being far cheaper due to the dollar but conversely in a Trump "America first" enviornment it maybe a hard sell.
and yet comcast, boeing and many other companies have chosen to relocate to these 'dangerous inner cities' of chicago and philly. Tons of people relocate nationally and internationally to these cities all the time.

"Chicago" also includes the entirety of cook and dupage counties, which have excellent schools and living standards, by and large.
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  #452  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Chicago and Philly both have a lot of attributes but again I think their murder/crime rates are going to hurt them. They have to be able to draw international and continental labour and getting people to move into such dangerous places will be a hard sell. Remember they not only have to get the workers but also have to keep them. That meaans not only safety for themselves but also for their kids. There is a good reason why Chicago is declining in population.........it's dangerous and also very important Chicago {and most large urban US centres} have horrid innder city schools. Again that is where quality of life is not only good for living but also sound economic policy.
Thank you, guy from White Rock, British Columbia, for informing us all about what it's like to live in Chicago. Guess I shouldn't be outside on a blanket at this park right now because apparently, I'm definitely going to die!
     
     
  #453  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
This HBR article from 2001 about Boeing's move to Chicago is worth reading. There's a number of interesting parallels with what's happening now with Amazon.

Inside Boeing's Big Move
...

Because of the nature of the business, we knew that we needed to remain in the United States. But we do business with 145 countries, and we have significant operations in 26 states. Seattle, southern California, Wichita, Philadelphia, and St. Louis—we have major operations in all of these sites. So we were looking for a place that would minimize travel time throughout the country and internationally and that would also give government leaders and financial markets in Washington, DC, New York, and abroad access to us. We needed a central location near a major airport. Based on that consideration and a number of others [for the full list of the selection criteria, see the accompanying exhibit], we very rapidly narrowed our choices.

You were in charge of the site evaluation process for those three cities. How did you go about it?

First, we decided to go public with the search. Most companies try to keep headquarters’ searches secret. They quietly collect information, and when they announce that they’re moving, they’ve already picked the site. We saw that it would be impossible to gather all the data we needed in such a short time without going public. In retrospect, making the announcement was very much to our advantage. We were given a lot more information than we even needed. Even though we said we were considering only three cities, I have a stack of material in the corner of my office that’s literally about three feet high from various places—big and little cities.

Full article at https://hbr.org/2001/10/inside-boeings-big-move
Good link.














I need to repeat to those that can't figure our demographics or our business climate.

NO other city in the USA for 7 or of the last 10 years has seen more HQ relocations and expansions than Chicago. Period. Four years in a row. Right after a 3 peat.




http://siteselection.com/issues/2017/mar/top-metropolitans-of-2016.cfm



The US metropolitan areas tallying the most corporate facility investment projects in 2016 aren’t just competitive nationally — they’re succeeding on a global scale

The Windy City keeps coming up. There are reasons for that, says Matthew T. McGuire, who served under President Obama as the US executive director at The World Bank Group. A financial services executive from Chicago, he previously served as director of the Office of the Business Liaison at the U.S. Department of Commerce, which under Chicago native Obama was headed by a third Chicagoan, Penny Pritzker.

World Business Chicago worked with more than 180 companies in 2016, in coordination with the City, bringing nearly 9,000 jobs to Chicago. McGuire says Chicago is a great example of a competitive global city, due to such factors as its central location, a strong cadre of universities, hard-wired digital economy infrastructure from the days of the first Mayor Daley








https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/de...porate_Metro_Investment_Fourht_Year.html


March 1, 2017

Chicago Ranked Top Corporate Metro For Fourth Consecutive Year

Site Selection Magazine Recognized Chicago for Leading the Nation in Corporate Investment in 2017




Mayor Rahm Emanuel and World Business Chicago (WBC) today announced that for the fourth consecutive year, Chicago ranked as the “Top Metro” in the United States for corporate investment by Site Selection Magazine. In 2016, the Chicago metro area saw more new and expanding corporate locations than any other area in the country.

“This is the fourth straight year the city of Chicago has been America’s number one city for corporate investment, a testament to both our talent and the investments we are making in our future,” Mayor Emanuel said. “Leading the country in corporate investment means more jobs and opportunities throughout Chicago. The city of Chicago has a bright future, and it is clear that businesses from across the country and around the world want to be part of what we are building here.”
The progress is continuing in 2017 - this past week alone, KPMG and GE Healthcare announced they are adding more than 1,000 jobs to Chicago. Today Mayor Emanuel joined Hickory Farms to announce the company is relocating its corporate headquarters to Chicago from Ohio.

In 2016, WBC tracked a record 350 business expansions and relocations in the Chicago metro. These projects accounted for more than $2.8 billion in investment and nearly 14,000 new jobs. Major relocations and expansions last year included: Beam Suntory, Mars Wrigley, McDonald's, Wilson Sporting Goods and Motorola Solutions.

“When corporations choose Chicago, they join a tightly knit corporate community in a global city of talent and innovation, a city with engaged business and civic leaders,” WBC President & CEO Jeff Malehorn said. “We have global markets; our economy is diverse; our talent is diverse and we have unmatched assets. All of this serves up Chicago to be top of mind for companies making location and expansion decisions.”

“The Chicago area is a frequent first place finisher in our ranking of metros according to new and expanding projects announced the previous year,” Mark Arend, editor of Site Selection said. “This means corporate facility planners seeking a large metro location are finding in Chicago the location assets they most require.”

A key source for the corporate relocation community, Site Selection Magazine focuses on new corporate facility projects with significant impact, such as headquarters, manufacturing plants, R&D and logistics sites. In order to be considered, new facilities and expansions must meet at least one of three Site Selection criteria: (a) capital investment of at least $1 million, (b) create at least 20 new jobs or (c) add at least 20,000 square feet of new floor area. Site Selection is published by Conway Inc., which is headquartered in Atlanta, Ga.

Last edited by bnk; Sep 10, 2017 at 9:23 PM.
     
     
  #454  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 9:50 PM
ScreamShatter ScreamShatter is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Chicago and Philly both have a lot of attributes but again I think their murder/crime rates are going to hurt them. They have to be able to draw international and continental labour and getting people to move into such dangerous places will be a hard sell. Remember they not only have to get the workers but also have to keep them. That meaans not only safety for themselves but also for their kids. There is a good reason why Chicago is declining in population.........it's dangerous and also very important Chicago {and most large urban US centres} have horrid innder city schools. Again that is where quality of life is not only good for living but also sound economic policy.

This is why I still think it's going to come down to Boston, Toronto, or Washington. Montreal has a great creative class, universities, urbanity, and universities but the French factor would make it harder to recruit people and Trudeau International is not a very well connected airport, foreign or domestic.

Toronto has the advantage over Washington and Boston as being far cheaper due to the dollar but conversely in a Trump "America first" enviornment it maybe a hard sell.
Funny -- does the RFP mention murder rate being a deciding factor? Neither Chicago nor Philly are in the top Top 30 in the US in terms of murder rate (btw)...https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/highest-murder-rate-cities

In both of those cities, the violence happens mostly outside of the areas where business is conducted or where the majority of middle and upper class live. If you looked at the murder rate in Philly in the neighborhoods where Amazon employees would be living, it's extremely low -- on par or less than a lot of other cities.

I really don't think that'll be a factor in their decision at all. Amazon is very forward thinking. They are going to see a city not for what it is today but from what they can make it.
     
     
  #455  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 10:05 PM
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Let's get real.

Amazon isn't going to choose or not choose a city because of what a bunch of enthusiasts (of their city) have to say about other cities.

Amazon will consider a lot of facts, but ultimately crime rates aren't going to as consequential as some are suggesting otherwise these "crime ridden ones" would be hemorrhaging jobs and companies left and right.

The people who take the Amazon jobs are not going to shop for houses/rentals in bad neighborhoods in whatever city Amazon chooses.

The things that Amazon will look for are the things they've already stated they're looking for. A city of at least a million in the metro with the ability to have up to 8 million square feet of space in a centralized urban environment.

They're also going to look at things like transportation options, connectivity, and proximity to major neighborhoods.

They're also going to look at locales with large educational institutions and an existing workforce in the tech industry. It's easier to build your facilities at a location that already has the workforce that you're looking for than it is to go through the process of financing, developing, building and moving your headquarters AND THEN taking on the task of luring the kind of workers you want after you've already made the gamble with building your headquarters.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Sep 10, 2017 at 11:16 PM.
     
     
  #456  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 10:43 PM
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Oh, man. I really thought Amazon would pick a city that a preponderance of SSP posters said didn't suck as much as another city.
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  #457  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 10:49 PM
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Let's get real.

Amazon isn't going to choose or not choose a city because of what a bunch of enthusiasts (of their city) have to say about other cities.

Amazon will consider a lot of facts, but ultimately crime rates aren't going to as consequential as some are suggesting otherwise these "crime ridden ones" would be hemorrhaging jobs and companies left and right.

The people who take the Amazon jobs are not going to shop for houses/rentals in bad neighborhoods in whatever city Amazon chooses.

The things that Amazon will look for are the things they've already stated they're looking for. A city of at least a million in the metro with the ability to have up to 8 million square feet of space in a centralized urban environment.

They're also going to look at things like transportation options, connectivity, and proximity to major neighborhoods.

They're also going to look at locales with large educational institutions and an existing workforce in the tech industry. It's easier to build your facilities at a location that already has the workforce that you're looking for then it is to go through the process of financing, developing, building and moving your headquarters AND THEN taking on the task of luring the kind of workers you want after you've already made the gamble with building your headquarters.
What they're REALLY going to focus on though is which city gives them the biggest incentives. They're going to get at a minimum tens of thousands of dollars for every job created by their project. So, like is always the case small businesses are stuck paying high taxes while multinational companies like Amazon and their CEO who is vying for richest man in the world will waltz in and not pay a dime in taxes. Yay America!
     
     
  #458  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 10:56 PM
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If they built it in Seattle, I'd prefer they build it in Tacoma.
That's probably what's gonna happen. "lol you guys! We're picking Tacoma! Thanks for taking all that time and energy to submit your bids though!".
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  #459  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 11:30 PM
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That's probably what's gonna happen. "lol you guys! We're picking Tacoma! Thanks for taking all that time and energy to submit your bids though!".
Well if you are thinking long term and want to spread out risk you have more than one location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone
     
     
  #460  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2017, 11:34 PM
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I actually don't think Canada is in the running for this one. But it is not because of too much French in Toronto.

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Not to beat a dead moose, and hopefully my last comment about Canada, but some here are missing the plot about what Amazon is and wants to be. This is not just relocating a hamburger headquarters or even a bank or a chipmaker. Amazon is arguably the most multifaceted and cutting edge company of the 21st century economy. From retailing, then to logistics, then to devices, then to hollywood style content, then to groceries; nobody knows what field next. They could literally buy a robotics company, or a cellular provider, or a movie chain, or a satellite launcher, or a pharmaceuticals company, or credit card company, or bank, next week (and they did just start a cargo airline). They cannot just tell huge fractions of those employees they have to move to Canada or lose their jobs. Also, they need legal services and, just as with Uber, they need to be deeply involved in government and policy as they literally help write 21st century laws about the airways for flying drones, or roadways for self driving trucks, or get digital protections for their content, and so on. For all that, they need to be in a US environment. I have a feeling they're not going to keep those functions in Seattle, because by moving eastwards, this new HQ2 will be closer to D.C. and other policy centers, and it should be handling a lot of that. (This is the big reason Boeing moved hq functions from Seattle to Chicago - to be within day-trip range of D.C.) For this reason I think Philadelphia has a very strong hand.

For almost any other conceivable huge company, Canada would be fantastic. I recognize all the cost and other advantages too. All I'm saying is, unless this is going to be an execution/operations facility or research farm, I think Amazon is far too unique and unpredictable to go there. There isn't really a knock against Canada in this, I stake a case of Labatt's on it.
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Last edited by Acajack; Sep 11, 2017 at 12:12 AM.
     
     
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