YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[casper]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

The limit is not set by just o/d. Don't be so naive. There are other countries which have much more liberal air bilaterals with canada, but there is little or no service between the countries

Many but not all of these agreements are negotiated on a country by country basis leaving it up to the airline to pick he city pairs. The EU has open skiles with Canada. China (including HK) is a massive market that easily support 1 to 2 dozen flights a day between the two countries.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Alpine

By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!

It will be interesting to see if Canada will bend over and grant Chinese carriers more rights into Canada. I don't think so. As you said, some of those secondary Chinese carriers are launching YVR service just because they can, and not because the market pair necessarily warrants it.

There does seem to be overcapacity in the market during the winter. A few weeks ago, China Eastern reduced frequency on PVG-YVR for the month of November, and now China Southern is reducing CAN-YVR terminator to 5x weekly for the entire winter season.

Last winter was 7x weekly B77W service. This winter, along with the 3x weekly CAN-YVR-MEX flight, it's a total of 8x weekly B788. Overall a decrease in seats/week.

If the yields were high, i would argue it doesn't matter. But the yields across the Pacific are trash, as can be evidenced by flights as low as 450$ return tax-in to East Asia. And so the reduced frequencies on some routes are inevitable.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It will be interesting to see if Canada will bend over and grant Chinese carriers more rights into Canada. I don't think so. As you said, some of those secondary Chinese carriers are launching YVR service just because they can, and not because the market pair necessarily warrants it.

There does seem to be overcapacity in the market during the winter. A few weeks ago, China Eastern reduced frequency on PVG-YVR for the month of November, and now China Southern is reducing CAN-YVR terminator to 5x weekly for the entire winter season.

Last winter was 7x weekly B77W service. This winter, along with the 3x weekly CAN-YVR-MEX flight, it's a total of 8x weekly B788. Overall a decrease in seats/week.

If the yields were high, i would argue it doesn't matter. But the yields across the Pacific are trash, as can be evidenced by flights as low as 450$ return tax-in to East Asia. And so the reduced frequencies on some routes are inevitable.

Not likely the Feds would refuse, Justin can't bend far enough over for China. Of course, its just product dumping on the Chinese carriers part.

[LeftCoaster]

If the Chinese government wants to take a hit and make my travel cheaper I don't have much of a problem with it. ACs exposure to that part of the world is pretty limited so the downside to the Canadian consumer is pretty low IMO.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Last winter was 7x weekly B77W service. This winter, along with the 3x weekly CAN-YVR-MEX flight, it's a total of 8x weekly B788. Overall a decrease in seats/week.

Here's the details of this change. Important to note CZ seems to change their schedules at YVR a lot so i would not be surprised to see a bit more capacity added to this before all is said and done especially now that MEX is contributing to the feed.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...-southern-w17-vancouver-service-changes/

Also announced at the routes online blog today is Korean is introducing their 787-9 on the YVR route sooner, meaning a bump in seats through the winter. 777-200 is being replaced Jan 1 rather than Mar 25.

Just shy of a 9% boost in capacity.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...w17-international-changes-as-of-30aug17/

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

And the day after Delta cancelled SEA-LHR.



I know you meant daily in the summer.

AF/KLM western Canada ops gets reduced in the winter.
YVR down to 7pw (4 KL & 3 AF), YYC down to 5pw KL and YEG down to 2pw KL.

I think KLM does 6x weekly to YYC in the winter. Looking at the schedule for this winter it looks like its everyday except for Thursday, all operated by the 789.

[ACT7]

Major AC route announcements being presented today from YVR. Not sure if it's all YVR-related or just major announcements in general.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

If the Chinese government wants to take a hit and make my travel cheaper I don't have much of a problem with it. ACs exposure to that part of the world is pretty limited so the downside to the Canadian consumer is pretty low IMO.

Product dumping is never a good thing. In this case it may not harm AC but it likely harms CX which offers a superior product in every way to the mainland carriers.

[Gordon]

I would suspect that the announcement will have something to do with YVR.

I wonder what is taking YVRAA so long o announce the next phase of terminal expansion?

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by ACT7

Major AC route announcements being presented today from YVR. Not sure if it's all YVR-related or just major announcements in general.

YVR-CDG
YVR-ZRH.

Boom.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air...ner-routes-from-vancouver-642379083.html

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

YVR-CDG
YVR-ZRH.

Boom.

also MEL and DEL are now year round and LHR is double daily in summer

Wow, big additions. AC really solidifying YVR

[LeftCoaster]

Just huge. The growth at YVR, particularly that of Air Canada is just staggering.

Paris I'm not too surprised by, but Zurich mainline came out of nowhere! Will be able to codeshare with Swiss and really fill the plane too. Great news all around!

Still haven't seen anything about Delhi going year round though. Where'd you see that Canadian74?

[Gordon]

These new additions are great &will make the airport even busier during the peak times . The gate shortage will be even worse.

[LeftCoaster]

I wonder how much growth will impel YVR to complete the entire D pier hammerhead in one go. I can't believe they are only planning on doing half the expansion at once. I understand sensible growth and not overextending, but their current plan barely even supports the announced growth for next year, let alone 5 years from now when it's complete.

[LeftCoaster]

And I finally get closure on what happened to YVR's last LHR slot:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

But we still don't know what AC is going to do with it's extra LHR slot do we?

Seems like an incredible waste to not use it. Can they lease it to another airliner?

[mezzanine]

Wow, my feeds are lighting up. what a whack of new routes! Glad they expanded the MLL intl lounge!

• ZRH really surprised me. glad to see real *A service versus edelweiss. I really thought CDG would be rouge'd as well.
• MEL for a few weeks in winter always seemed weird. I'm glad AC is seeing expected demand.
• LHR back to double daily in the summer! glad to see it back. It looks like a lot of the Dreamliner deliveries are being accounted for..
• YUL got a whole bunch of AC Asian love recently. Now it's YVR's turn to get a lot of AC European love.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-08-...ing-787-Dreamliner-Routes-from-Vancouver

"We continue to strategically broaden our international network from our Vancouver hub with the addition of two new, non-stop international services to Europe in 2018, more year-round flights to Australia, and additional flights to Delhi and London Heathrow. With the launch of flights to Paris and Zurich, Air Canada will fly non-stop from YVR to five European destinations next summer, offering excellent options for travellers from BC and the North American west coast to Europe, and as well as for European visitors and beyond to western Canada and the Pacific Northwest," said Benjamin Smith, President, Passenger Airlines at Air Canada.

"Following our upcoming launch of seasonal service to Melbourne this winter, we are delighted to serve Australia's second largest city year-round starting in June. Melbourne is our third Australian destination, and our flights provide convenience to both business and leisure travellers between North America and Australia with competitive elapsed travel times and seamless connections offered by the in-transit preclearance facilities at our YVR hub. All new flights from YVR to Paris, Zurich and Melbourne will be operated with our state-of-the-art Boeing 787 Dreamliners. The operating economics of the Dreamliners together with the Vancouver Airport Authority's efforts to maintain airport operating costs among the lowest in Canada have enabled us to expand our network here to connect our already extensive B.C., Western Canada and U.S. routes to even more international destinations, and position YVR as a preferred option to travel through," concluded Mr. Smith.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Still haven't seen anything about Delhi going year round though. Where'd you see that Canadian74?

airlineroute twitter

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/903303425164795904

[trofirhen]

The next giant step - although unlikely I will admit - is when Paris, Zurich & Delhi become year-round. Then there are other dreams to dream ... GDL, MTY, perhaps IST .......

[mezzanine]

More questions answered by this BIV article. DEL looks like a re-announcement, it is still seasonal, for now. interestingly, no further Australia flights, and no plans to fly to NZ.


But also raises more questions. LIM on the radar? BKK/SIN still on the table, in the medium-term?

“In Switzerland, the value of the Swiss currency is very beneficial and we see a lot of growth in Switzerland’s inbound traffic into Canada,” Air Canada vice-president for network planning, Mark Galardo told Business in Vancouver after a ceremony at YVR.

.....

Air Canada will also increase the frequency of its current non-stop flights to Delhi to five flights per week, up from the current three flights per week.

The route, which launched last year, will remain seasonal during the winter.

“Obviously our start was successful. Now we’re taking another major leap by almost doubling the frequency and we’ll see how that goes. Our goal is to get to daily, year-round service. With time we’ll get there.”

.....

Air Canada, which is the largest carrier out of YVR, had already announced plans to launch its first non-stop flights between YVR and Melbourne on December 1 for a three-month trial run.

Flights between YVR and Melbourne will still end in February, as planned, but the airline will relaunch the daily non-stop flights in June 2018 on a permanent, year-round basis.

Other Air Canada non-stop flights to Australia include the decades-old non-stop, daily, year-round service between Vancouver and Sydney as well as the non-stop, daily, year-round flights to Brisbane, which launched last year.

Galardo said the airline is not considering any more routes to Australia and will not fly non-stop to New Zealand.

....

Air Canada’s other announcement about added flights from YVR was that it will fly twice daily to London’s Heathrow Airport in summer 2018. It currently flies daily non-stop flights year-round to that airport.

...

No airline currently flies non-stop between YVR and South America but Galardo said that Air Canada has considered non-stop flights to Lima.

“We will consider it as the hub continues to grow,” he said.

“We build critical mass in terms of international destinations and reach. Right now the market [for flights between YVR and Lima] is a bit thin but as we continue to build up the hub and offer more connections to the Asia Pacific, it becomes a possibility. I wouldn’t say it will be something in the short term.”

......


Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu told the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade earlier this year that he would love to launch added flights and routes into China but that it is difficult to get assigned slots at Chinese airports.

No current Air Canada flights link YVR to southeast Asia but Galardo said non-stop flights to Bangkok and Singapore are being considered because the airline’s fuel-efficient 787-900 Dreamliner aircraft make such destinations feasible.

“We’re considering them,” he said of routes to Bangkok and Singapore.

“We like routes that are counter seasonal, which peak in the winter, so definitely, for us, it’s something we’re considering but there’s no commitment at this time.”

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Wow, my feeds are lighting up. what a whack of new routes! Glad they expanded the MLL intl lounge!

• ZRH really surprised me. glad to see real *A service versus edelweiss. I really thought CDG would be rouge'd as well.
• MEL for a few weeks in winter always seemed weird. I'm glad AC is seeing expected demand.
• LHR back to double daily in the summer! glad to see it back. It looks like a lot of the Dreamliner deliveries are being accounted for..
• YUL got a whole bunch of AC Asian love recently. Now it's YVR's turn to get a lot of AC European love.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-08-...ing-787-Dreamliner-Routes-from-Vancouver

Much nicer to connect to European cities through Zurich, than LHR or CDG.