Calgary International Airport II

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I was not aware of that, and this is pretty significant. That's a reduction of almost half the order, are the remainder just deferred?

The total number of 737s on order hasn't changed, AC just swapped with the slightly smaller Max 8. (The Max 8 is still larger than the A319/A320s they will be replacing, I believe AC will be putting 169 seats in these, the A320s have 148)

They will be getting 49 Max 8s and 12 Max 9s now. This can still change, as Boeing has now launched the new Max 10 which seems to be selling well, a lot of conversions from Max 9 to 10

Don't forget AC also has 45 CSeries on order as well

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

On my recent flight I discovered that 30 inches of seat pitch (in what appeared to be United's new seats) is the limit to my comfort. It was barely enough room until the guy in front of me reclined the seat, and then it was jammed against the seat for the rest of the flight. I purchased Economy Plus for the flight home and was much more comfortable.

Here's hoping that 30 or even 29 inches isn't going to be the new norm everywhere!

Also, customs was super smooth in both directions this time. I was very pleased with the whole process in Calgary.

It's funny how so called full service carriers keep reducing seat pitch to 30" or even 29" to "compete with LCCs" but many low cost/budget carriers like Southwest, JetBlue, WestJet have 32-33"

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

It's funny how so called full service carriers keep reducing seat pitch to 30" or even 29" to "compete with LCCs" but many low cost/budget carriers like Southwest, JetBlue, WestJet have 32-33"

It also depends on thickness of the chairs though. If you had 32" with a very thick chair, it is possible to have less room than a 30" pitch with an ultra slim-line chair.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I would hope HU is flying > 80% loads at this time of year. It's the slower months that could make or break it. Chinese airlines are not usually known for operating routes seasonally so the route will have to prove itself as an overall profitable year-Round route.

As far as I am aware Hainan still has a couple of unused frequencies available to them in the current assigned allotment to Chinese carriers. If the route is doing very well I'd assume they would be adding frequencies. Perhaps the current offering is sufficient.

From what I've noticed, the inbound flight from PEK is usually typically full most of the time. Its the outbound back to PEK that is sometimes only half full. They did very well last winter, and it look's like they're keeping it at 3x weekly for this winter unlike the 2x they did last year. I think they had planned to expand it to 4x weekly at one point, adding a sunday flight, but opted not too in the end.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by suburbia

It also depends on thickness of the chairs though. If you had 32" with a very thick chair, it is possible to have less room than a 30" pitch with an ultra slim-line chair.

Yes, but as soon as the slim seat with 30" pitch reclines, it is much more closer to you than a thick seat

Legroom is only part of the equation

[cala]

Recently Hainan offers free shuttle bus service between Edmonton and Calgary airport. It will help them to increase load factor.

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

From what I've noticed, the inbound flight from PEK is usually typically full most of the time. Its the outbound back to PEK that is sometimes only half full. They did very well last winter, and it look's like they're keeping it at 3x weekly for this winter unlike the 2x they did last year. I think they had planned to expand it to 4x weekly at one point, adding a sunday flight, but opted not too in the end.

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

It's funny how so called full service carriers keep reducing seat pitch to 30" or even 29" to "compete with LCCs" but many low cost/budget carriers like Southwest, JetBlue, WestJet have 32-33"

Based on a recent conversation I had with a friend that works at WestJet it's my understanding that WestJet is now in the process of switching to 30" seat pitch in their 737-800s with the majority of their fleet having already been reconfigured at 31" with slim-line seats over the last few years. This is separate from their upcoming initiative to create a LCC using a small sub-fleet of high density 737-800s. Aside from the availability of WestJet Connect as IFE, I would argue that WestJet now has an in-flight economy product that is equal to the product offered by Canada's charter airlines (about as close to LCCs as we have in Canada) and far worse than what is offered by Air Canada.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Based on a recent conversation I had with a friend that works at WestJet it's my understanding that WestJet is now in the process of switching to 30" seat pitch in their 737-800s with the majority of their fleet having already been reconfigured at 31" with slim-line seats over the last few years. This is separate from their upcoming initiative to create a LCC using a small sub-fleet of high density 737-800s. Aside from the availability of WestJet Connect as IFE, I would argue that WestJet now has an in-flight economy product that is equal to the product offered by Canada's charter airlines (about as close to LCCs as we have in Canada) and far worse than what is offered by Air Canada.

They were adding 1 row on all planes, I think that would have reduced pitch to 31". AC's new 737Max will also have 30-31".
You are right about IFE, which is definitely superior on AC.


AC's 789s also have 30" pitch combined with 17" seats!! And they operate these planes on some of their longest routes, YYZ-DEL/BOM, YVR-DEL, Australia, Asia etc
That's a bit too much

[Johnny Aussie]

http://www.yyc.com/en-us/media/factsfigures/passengerstatistics.aspx

Highlights compared to July 2016:

Overall up 24,000 up 1.6%
Domestic up 14,600 up 1.3%
Transborder up 5,800 up 2.0%
International up 3,600 up 2.7%

Slowest growth since March but at least it's an increase.

Overall YTD still up 2.84%

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Aside from the availability of WestJet Connect as IFE, I would argue that WestJet now has an in-flight economy product that is equal to the product offered by Canada's charter airlines (about as close to LCCs as we have in Canada) and far worse than what is offered by Air Canada.

I disagree. Like Canadian74 said above, WestJet's seating and pitch changes put them on par with AC. And with pretty much every scheduled North American mainline carrier.

The charters (Transat and Sunwing) and ULCCs (like Spirirt and Allegiant) are all much, much worse. And some of the charter aircraft have low seat pitch but without true slimline seats, meaning the real legroom is actually much worse.

And some of the regionals (like some United Express regional jets) are also worse than WS and AC for pitch.

For scheduled carriers in Canada, AC's Rouge flights operated on 319s and 321s are in fact the absolute bottom of the barrel. Those planes have a spine crushing 29" pitch and, IMO, about the most uncomfortable slimline seats out there. (Rouge's 767 seat pitch is much closer to mainline Air Canada)

I don't think WS ever set out to differentiate themselves on seat pitch, and clearly they're not. But they're no worse than their direct competition in that regard.

[Canadian74]

JetBlue and Southwest are 2 exceptions though, which is my point

[Vercingetorix]

Agreed. I've flown on Delta's regional flights and United express and both have been very cramped. More cramped than anytime I've flown on WestJet.

Originally Posted by Tobuz

I disagree. Like Canadian74 said above, WestJet's seating and pitch changes put them on par with AC. And with pretty much every scheduled North American mainline carrier.

The charters (Transat and Sunwing) and ULCCs (like Spirirt and Allegiant) are all much, much worse. And some of the charter aircraft have low seat pitch but without true slimline seats, meaning the real legroom is actually much worse.

And some of the regionals (like some United Express regional jets) are also worse than WS and AC for pitch.

For scheduled carriers in Canada, AC's Rouge flights operated on 319s and 321s are in fact the absolute bottom of the barrel. Those planes have a spine crushing 29" pitch and, IMO, about the most uncomfortable slimline seats out there. (Rouge's 767 seat pitch is much closer to mainline Air Canada)

I don't think WS ever set out to differentiate themselves on seat pitch, and clearly they're not. But they're no worse than their direct competition in that regard.

[Vercingetorix]

Question about YYC's website. I saw an Air Canada Dreamliner come in for a landing about 30 minutes ago (at least I think ti was a Dreamliner) and was looking at YYC's site in the arrivals section and it didn't show any arrivals that looked like it would be for a dreamliner.

https://www.yyc.com/en-us/travellerinfo/flightinformation/flightschedule.aspx

Is there site accurate?

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Vercingetorix

Question about YYC's website. I saw an Air Canada Dreamliner come in for a landing about 30 minutes ago (at least I think ti was a Dreamliner) and was looking at YYC's site in the arrivals section and it didn't show any arrivals that looked like it would be for a dreamliner.

AC 137 from Toronto (YYZ). The lunchtime flight has been Dreamliner all summer.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

AC 137 from Toronto (YYZ). The lunchtime flight has been Dreamliner all summer.

Cool. No idea they flew the Dreamliner's for domestic flights.

[suburbia]

This may be a completely ridiculous thought but just thinking outside the box.

Could it be helpful to put the seat backs (but not the table tray mechanism behind them) on a track that could go up a few inches? If you unlock them to be able to do this, you could do a wimpy version of a squat (which is good for travel health and keeping blood moving in the legs) and could potentially help with slightly taller folks who could lock the back higher and would then have their knees at 125 degrees instead of 100 degrees and wedged.

As I am imagining this, I can think of a variety of challenges, but those can be worked through. What about the concept?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

Seems like extra weight for that mechanism in the seat for reasons that an airline would not ever be able to justify.

Good point about weight - I hadn't considered this. Agree that would be a massive barrier.

[hollywoodcory]

Not sure if it got posted yet, but it looks like AC changed the YYC-OGG flight schedule to be similar to last year. Afternoon departure and a red-eye return.

Now it departs at 13:55 and arrives back in YYC at 05:00 the next day. (Originally it had a 07:45 departure and late evening return).

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

IFP is a white elephant, they said.

Loads of 737's!

[Blader]

Originally Posted by Acey

There's only one in the frame. Absent from the photo are the two Air Canada 777's at the end of the pier. It's all in the time of day. Morning transborder departures are pretty busy, WestJet mid-morning transborder bank is busy, then the afternoon is busy. But if you catch it between the rushes, there can be 2 or 3 planes on 24 gates. Again, heavies take up 2 gates (aside from 76) so when 2 WS 767's are on gate, Hainan, Edelweiss, KLM, Air Canada x2... 24 gates no longer seems like a plethora.

So Acey:
I have to assume since B concourse is undergoing extensive renovation, converting to Domestic, with a capacity reduction that will take time to complete. Thus the new IFP with swing gates is busier. Once B concourse renovations are completed pressure on the IFP will reduce?
Your thoughts? Time frame? Future growth assuming Alberta economic recovery?