Calgary International Airport II

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by boeing767300

Yes very informative report as I was not aware that Frontier were still operating B-737-200s...

Is this the planned aircraft type for the DEN-YYC flights?

[Cage]

Interesting items as they pertain to YYC were released on the WS Q2 earnings release conference call. Notable items:

(1) The new winter schedule will have 180+ viable connection opportunities out of YYC. YYZ has 162 connection opportunities while YVR has 60+.

While I haven't taken a detailed look at the new schedule, for WS to get this many connection possibilities likely means the YYC schedule has been "banked".

Traditionally WS had one major bank between 9:55 and 11am for both domestic and transborder. Switching to banked hub operation increases the number of staff required and increase the amount of airport real estate (more checkin desks, gates, etc.), all of these factors were required when the new terminal went operational/

WS YYZ ops will still have more flights than YYC, but the number of early morning departures and late evening arrivals that don't connect anywhere is higher at YYZ than YYC.

(2) WS reported improvement with the new CAA administration and they are working out the issues. Bag connectivity appears to be the biggest remaining issue. Although YYC Link services will be stretched on the new winter schedule.

(3) The new ULCC will have a separate office space in YYC, separate reservation system, and separate Airline Operating Certificate.

Newskies (WS original reservation system) will be the ULCC computer system.

Out of all the separate statements, reservation system is the most significant. Separate reservation systems mean the ULCC will not be able to codeshare or interline with WS mainline/encore ops. Further WS will not be able to efficiently move passengers between the two airlines. Therefore ULCC routes will not be switched on short notice.

I expect a tremendous amount of market confusion as the ULCC will not have any connection to WS outside of corporate ownership. The market will be expecting some interconnection.

(4) Per conference call, there will be very few ULCC flights from YYZ. They will use "another Southern Ontario airport" for majority of operations. Saretsky pretty much telegraphed YHM as the eastern hub for the ULCC.

No official or unofficial word on the Western hub for the ULCC. I would expect YYC to be the western hub, but operate to different destinations from mainline.

(5) Next years focus will be building WS three main hubs: YYC, YYZ, YVR. I will tread lightly in the YEG thread as the light at the end of traffic stat tunnel is a train.

If the YYC hub has been banked with 4-6 main waves for winter 17-18, then its possible YYZ could be banked for the summer 2018 schedule. YVR bank operation could be done at any time.

I guess all the new xUA schedulers are remaking the WS schedule one hub at a time.

(6) From the conference call, WS appears to have bifurcated Calgary from the rest of Alberta market. When Alberta market weakness due to the energy recession is discussed, WS execs are actually referring to YMM, YEG, YQU. Calgary has seen a minor impact to revenue/margins but not to traffic and flights.

However the rebound WS is seeing is clearly coming from Calgary. The Alberta market is up 10% on revenue and leading the impact on yield. Additionally, increasing the number of connections at YYC will lessen the impact of any energy recessionary factors.

Putting everything together, as WS recovers from the Alberta recession; "Alberta" flights that were dropped will be replaced by "Calgary" flights. Again, don't tell the YEG thread folks.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Cage

Interesting items as they pertain to YYC were released on the WS Q2 earnings release conference call. Notable items:

(3) The new ULCC will have a separate office space in YYC, separate reservation system, and separate Airline Operating Certificate.

Newskies (WS original reservation system) will be the ULCC computer system.

Out of all the separate statements, reservation system is the most significant. Separate reservation systems mean the ULCC will not be able to codeshare or interline with WS mainline/encore ops. Further WS will not be able to efficiently move passengers between the two airlines. Therefore ULCC routes will not be switched on short notice.

I expect a tremendous amount of market confusion as the ULCC will not have any connection to WS outside of corporate ownership. The market will be expecting some interconnection.

(4) Per conference call, there will be very few ULCC flights from YYZ. They will use "another Southern Ontario airport" for majority of operations. Saretsky pretty much telegraphed YHM as the eastern hub for the ULCC.

No official or unofficial word on the Western hub for the ULCC. I would expect YYC to be the western hub, but operate to different destinations from mainline.

(5) Next years focus will be building WS three main hubs: YYC, YYZ, YVR. I will tread lightly in the YEG thread as the light at the end of traffic stat tunnel is a train.

If the YYC hub has been banked with 4-6 main waves for winter 17-18, then its possible YYZ could be banked for the summer 2018 schedule. YVR bank operation could be done at any time.

I guess all the new xUA schedulers are remaking the WS schedule one hub at a time.

Is the point of the new ULCC to kill NewLeaf/Flair (and any other ULCC) and then get canned itself? It sure looks like they're setting up the whole thing just to shut it down when they've eliminated the competition - no inter-tie with Westjet's main operation and running out of Hamilton airport seems to point to this plan. Or are they trying to conserve gates at YYZ for mainline?

Or is it an attempt to 'save' the Westjet brand from being tainted by the stigma of the sacrifices of ULCC travel? AC's image hasn't been positively helped by its association with Rouge - people tend to remember the 'Air Canada' part and not the 'Rouge' part on their flight.

As for the hub-and-spoke direction Westjet is taking, I still feel it is the wrong direction for the airline. The Encore operation I understand - it allows more service to smaller destinations without destroying frequency. I'm not sure the airline is going to be able to compete internationally - the Gatwick operation has been far from smooth and Westjet doesn't have the warm and fuzzy image with foreign travelers as it does with domestic fliers. Time will tell if this proves to be an expensive dead-end.

[boeing767300]

Employees have been told in a recent town hall meeting that ULCC will operate from Hamilton and Abbotsford. This from a usually reliable source at the YYC hangar.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by wave46

(1) Is the point of the new ULCC to kill NewLeaf/Flair (and any other ULCC) and then get canned itself? It sure looks like they're setting up the whole thing just to shut it down when they've eliminated the competition - no inter-tie with Westjet's main operation and running out of Hamilton airport seems to point to this plan.

(2) Or are they trying to conserve gates at YYZ for mainline?

(3) Or is it an attempt to 'save' the Westjet brand from being tainted by the stigma of the sacrifices of ULCC travel? AC's image hasn't been positively helped by its association with Rouge - people tend to remember the 'Air Canada' part and not the 'Rouge' part on their flight.

(4) As for the hub-and-spoke direction Westjet is taking, I still feel it is the wrong direction for the airline. The Encore operation I understand - it allows more service to smaller destinations without destroying frequency.

(1) at first I agreed the point of the ULCC was to quickly kill off Newleaf/Flair, Enerjet/FlyToo, and Canada Jetlines. However the more that comes out the more I disagree with this opinion.

I believe that WS has done a cost analysis and concluded that certain decisions made in the last 10 years have contributed to them losing the cost advantage in competing with a new entrant. Hubbing at expensive airports like YYZ, SabreSonic reservation system, Interline and inbound codeshare, Encore, widebody operations, are the most costly decisions made for the right reasons. By removing these costly elements from a subsidiary operation WS would be able to keep and even fend off future ULCC or other types of new entrants.

Under my new theory, WS would keep their ULCC operating even under the situation where the proposed new entrants folded up their tent and took their ball home. Their reasoning would be to dissuade any future entrant from thinking about starting up operations. Additionally, the ULCC might be self sustaining and profitable.

(2) Gate conservation at YYZ is an entirely different problem for WS. Essentially WS wants to force either or both of Air Transat and Sunwing over to the Infield terminal. However, they might have to also send the WS ULCC operation to the infield terminal as the ULCC fits within the definition of an airline that belongs at the IFT.

Airlines that have very little to no connecting traffic could do quite well at the IFT. The IFT adds about 20-40 minutes to Minimum Connection Time, which does not make it particularly useful to airlines with network or hub operations. Because of the longer time it takes to get from curb to gate using the IFT, the infield terminal is better for airlines that have pax who show up 2-4 hours before departure. Airlines with lots of pax that show up 1-2 hours before departure are penalized. Add in a premium market to the airline pax mix, and the IFT is a horrible brand destroying operation.

(3) 60% of pax fly less than once per year. Further, this market will trade for a horrible pax experience if it means saving $20. This is the market for Rouge that is being well served. AC posted record earnings on the back of supplying Rouge type services. The mainline expansion into Asia actually pulled down Q2-2017 earnings by 20-40 million dollars. The market might hate rouge with a passion, but they continue to buy more and more flights on rouge.

This is the market WS is hoping tap into with the ULCC. However the problem for WS is they have a reputation for bending the rules for the Visiting Friends and Relatives (VFR) market, the same people comprising the 60% of travellers discussed above.

The ULCC business model thrives on charging extra for everything: carryon, seat selection, bags, soft drinks, traditional checkin. These are all the rules WS is known for bending.

WS biggest challenge with the ULCC is making it clear to the market they are not flying WestJet type service operation.

(4) In the airline industry, if you want to grow beyond 30% market share, you must hub and spoke your operation. The first 20% of the market is easy as it possible to find 150 people who want to fly between popular cities for a cheap price. That is the low hanging fruit.

Originally Posted by boeing767300

(5) Employees have been told in a recent town hall meeting that ULCC will operate from Hamilton and Abbotsford. This from a usually reliable source at the YYC hangar.

(5) Abbotsford (YXX) is going to be an interesting experiment. I suspect the airport will become a hybrid Encore/ULCC operation. Encore will feed into YYC hub for connecting traffic and the ULCC will focus on the point to point traffic.

WS could decide to allow for connecting traffic within the ULCC, but this would be a departure from the traditional business model.

NewSkies is the perfect computer system to manage the connection possibilities. Newskies inherently restricts connections to only operator allowed versions. For example, in 2003 I flew WS YYC-YVR 3 hour wait YVR-YLW. I booked using Expedia. The GDS allowed the single ticket booking YYC-YLW-YVR as the YVR stop was within 4 hours connection window. However the OpenSkies system (the name for NewSkies at the time) did not allow the routing to be ticketed and attempted to charge me $150 for the stopover. Expedia quickly went to bat for me and got WS to override the OpenSkies computer system in favour of IATA fare construction rules.

So the NewSkies system would allow YXX-YYC-AZA (which for operational purposes would be same plane services) while not allowing YXX-YYC 3hour stop YYC-YHM.

[GoflamesGo]

I'm flying to Ottawa at the end of the month. Does anyone know if WestJet is flying the new 737's on that route yet?

[DoubleK]

What is it with airline reservation systems that makes is so bloody complicated?

There are hundreds if not thousands of airlines on the planet. They all have a system. Surely there are service providers that offer a turnkey solution.

I can't for the life of me understand why this is such a problem and an ongoing one to boot.

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[casper]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Just like how Oracle, PeopleSoft, or SAP are turnkey for business processes? Or all the contactless transit cards?

I'm sure there is an expensive turnkey solution, and in theory WestJet's new system is that.

WestJet's old system was in house iirc, so dirt cheap.

WestJets earlier system was also a commercial off the shelf system. However it was a simpler system that did not have all the feature to interline with other airline system. Basically it was island on to itself. I could be wrong but I thought it was an EDS product. EDS became part of HP for a while and then they merged with Computer Science to become DXC.

WestJets current system is SABRE and evolves out of American Airlines. It is designed to play nice with everyone.

[GoflamesGo]

Originally Posted by Acey

If by new 737 you mean MAX, then no... the first doesn't arrive until October and when it does, it won't be going to Ottawa.

If you mean the existing planes that have been reconfigured with new seats (-800's that have had their seats upped from 168 to 174, or the -700's that have gone from 130 to 134) then it's a toss up and could go either way.

Thanks!! I was hoping for the MAX. Next time I guess.

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by Acey

New Aeromexico service finishes July with 17 of 31 flights leaving the gate at least 15 minutes late, for an OTP of about 45%. It remains mostly due to the inbound aircraft arriving late but there other issues like tonight where incompetence of the ground crew ultimately resulted in the jetbridge becoming unusable and the aircraft had to be towed to an adjacent gate so passengers could disembark, resulting in over an hour delay for the outbound.

I don't know what it is with those new jet bridges at the International Terminal but we've had multiple delays at WG since day one because of ground crew taking up to 30 minutes to bridge the aircraft. I don't know if it's a training issue with Swissport, the design of the jet bridges or what but something needs to get sorted out in that department at YYC.

[FormerWingTipper]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

I don't know what it is with those new jet bridges at the International Terminal but we've had multiple delays at WG since day one because of ground crew taking up to 30 minutes to bridge the aircraft. I don't know if it's a training issue with Swissport, the design of the jet bridges or what but something needs to get sorted out in that department at YYC.

Definitely the bridges. The design is terrible in my opinion. The distance some of them have to cover and the speed of which they operate take forever. And if you need a MBA for your aircraft, it is quite the walk from the storage area to the end of the bridge. Then there are all the hydraulic issues, etc. that result in the bridge being taken out of service for maintenance/repair. And that is just the first few steps off the plane... nevermind the rest of the terminal.

[Tobuz]

Earlier today, WestJet announced daily non-stops YYC-DEN starting March 8, 2018.

(The route was announced simultaneously by the YYC airport authority, who has yet to even acknowledge last month's announcement by Frontier)

Today, WestJet announced its latest new route out of YYC Calgary International Airport with daily non-stop service to Denver, Colorado. Linking to Calgary’s sister city, the Denver service will operate on a Boeing 737-700 starting on March 8, 2018 with departures out of Calgary at 10:10 a.m. and arriving back into Calgary at 3:46 p.m.

“WestJet continues to build on its well-established and extensive route network out of Calgary, making YYC its largest hub in the west, said Bob Sartor, President and CEO for The Calgary Airport Authority. “As WestJet adds new destinations and increases their flight frequencies, we’ll continue to work together to ensure YYC customers have some of the best access to business and leisure destinations.”

This is the third new route WestJet has announced this year, having launched Nashville in May and recently announcing new service to Belize, which will commence in November. In addition to new destinations, WestJet recently invested in YYC as its main connecting platform in the west, adding numerous additional frequencies at ideal connection periods to offer better service to its guests that are connecting out of Calgary.

“Calgarians have enjoyed WestJet’s low fares and great guest experience since our inception and we are proud to bring our trusted brand to the Mile-High City, Denver,” said Ed Sims, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Commercial. “New routes are not just about connecting dots on a map – they connect economies and communities and this is especially true for Denver and Calgary. With the addition of DEN we now offer Calgarians a total of 57 different WestJet destinations, including 17 U.S. destinations, out of YYC.”

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Acey

Another flight to a UA hub. Speaking only of loads, SFO and ORD continue to do well. IAH loads continue to be horrible, presumably the second daily will eventually get pulled because clearly they're not getting the business traffic they were hoping for, those that would benefit from the second flight. Elsewhere, BNA is still off the charts and JFK excellent.

Its interesting. I fly to the South East of the US quite a bit. My choices through United are Denver, Houston and Chicago. When you go to book online most of the options seem to run through Houston. Too bad because I hate that airport and have nothing but trouble there. Then the next is Chicago. The other thing I have noticed that with Denver more than the other locations when I have to switch planes the layover times are much tighter coming through Denver than Houston or Chicago. That might have some impact on the loads ..??

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[Cage]

Originally Posted by rotten42

....The other thing I have noticed that with Denver more than the other locations when I have to switch planes the layover times are much tighter coming through Denver than Houston or Chicago. That might have some impact on the loads ..??

The Denver UA operation was rebanked last year and that project will now rampup at IAH with the winter 17/18 schedule. UA has 6-8 bank operation at DEN whereas the other hubs are not banked or loosely put together in a 10 bank operation.

A flight bank is where every flight arrives at the same time (within 45 min of each other) and then leaves at the same time. Banks are also usually directional, flights arrive from the east and then depart to the west.

Banked hubs make for many more connections but are also very expensive labour wise and require lots of ground infrastructure.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Cage

(4) Per conference call, there will be very few ULCC flights from YYZ. They will use "another Southern Ontario airport" for majority of operations. Saretsky pretty much telegraphed YHM as the eastern hub for the ULCC.

No official or unofficial word on the Western hub for the ULCC. I would expect YYC to be the western hub, but operate to different destinations from mainline.

Doesn`t make sense to me for the ULCC to be Calgary-based. Where would it fly that WS doesn`t serve already? I suspect it would cannibalise WS traffic, unless they pull a AC/rouge switcheroo on routes out of YYC, which makes less sense if there is no integration with mainline WS service, unlike AC/rouge.

[FormerWingTipper]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Doesn`t make sense to me for the ULCC to be Calgary-based. Where would it fly that WS doesn`t serve already? I suspect it would cannibalise WS traffic, unless they pull a AC/rouge switcheroo on routes out of YYC, which makes less sense if there is no integration with mainline WS service, unlike AC/rouge.

Does there have to be a second, Western hub? The ultra low cost carrier could just stay in YXU/YHM/whatever and just have one hub. Then if it works, expansion could lead to other hubs. But why not just have one to start?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Doesn`t make sense to me for the ULCC to be Calgary-based. Where would it fly that WS doesn`t serve already? I suspect it would cannibalise WS traffic, unless they pull a AC/rouge switcheroo on routes out of YYC, which makes less sense if there is no integration with mainline WS service, unlike AC/rouge.

There will be some flights/routes transferred from WS mainline to the ULCC. It appears WS has learned its better to cannibalize your own route than to have a competitor do it for you.

WS knows the routes that are both low yield and have lots of O&D traffic. These routes are from YYC and not the hinterland.

Winter season I expect WS will transfer routes that compete with WG - Sunwing. There are additional opportunities like CZM - Cozumel that would complement ULCC to the secondary airport and mainline to the primary airport.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

Does there have to be a second, Western hub? The ultra low cost carrier could just stay in YXU/YHM/whatever and just have one hub. Then if it works, expansion could lead to other hubs. But why not just have one to start?

Yes there needs to be a Western hub. Mostly because YHM or other Ontario airports that are not YYZ or YOW cannot handle the traffic that would be generated by at 10 aircraft operation. YHM could handle maybe 4 aircraft operation, and that would require a lot of price stimulative demand.

Finally, when WS made their big push into YHM during the early 2000s, their experience was that local Southern Ontarians did not support the service. Further, even people from Hamilton drove to YYZ to fly WS. This was the main reason why WS switched the eastern hub to YYZ in 2004-05 timeframe.