Downtown Vancouver Updates

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Thanks for the pics! From the comments before you'd think it was the worst disaster to hit this city since the great fire of 1886.

I know, right? I think some people in this forum should go visit a city in Europe. There they will see that the world doesn't end when automobiles aren't driving through every space. I believe we greatly hinder our quality of life by permanently devoting so much space to cars.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

I know, right? I think some people in this forum should go visit a city in Europe. There they will see that the world doesn't end when automobiles aren't driving through every space. I believe we greatly hinder our quality of life by permanently devoting so much space to cars.

In Europe, this would be a tram right of way linking the shopping district of
Robson to the entertainment district at Granville. Or it would be packed with red double decker buses ferrying people across the two districts.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Vin

In Europe, this would be a tram right of way linking the shopping district of
Robson to the entertainment district at Granville. Or it would be packed with red double decker buses ferrying people across the two districts.

It's not like the shopping district of Robson is any real distance from the entertainment district of Granville. They literally meld into each other. The further from Granville you get on Robson, the more the shopping district diminishes.

[VanK]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Robson was a relatively scantly utilized 'thoroughfare' at the Robson Square section, I worked and lived downtown for years, and has absolutely no baring on Georgia St traffic.

I currently work and currently live in Downtown (for years). To say that is has absolutely no baring on Georgia Street traffic or any traffic (going around Robson Square) is quite a bold statement and quite incorrect in my opinion. I would counter and say it has had a large impact on traffic.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VanK

I currently work and currently live in Downtown (for years). To say that is has absolutely no baring on Georgia Street traffic or any traffic (going around Robson Square) is quite a bold statement and quite incorrect in my opinion. I would counter and say it has had a large impact on traffic.

Anecdotal evidence from a biased source is worth nothing. Do you have traffic counts under various road closure scenarios you can provide?

[dreambrother808]

I live downtown and walk through this area multiple times, every day. I also take transit through and occasionally drive. Complaints are overblown and far outweighed by the atmosphere blocking traffic creates. Same goes for the Bute/Robson plaza, which I love as an addition to my neighbourhood.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by csbvan

It's not like the shopping district of Robson is any real distance from the entertainment district of Granville. They literally meld into each other. The further from Granville you get on Robson, the more the shopping district diminishes.

Everything melds into each other. So are you saying we don't really need any good transportation services downtown? Yaletown melds into Davie and melds into Granville and melds into the commercial downtown core, and melds into Stanley Park.

The reason why Robson shopping district diminishes is because most people wouldn't want to walk so far but prefer to remain nearer to the core (usually places with buses or train stations), resulting in lessening pedestrian traffic and sub-par businesses further away from Granville. A section of Robson road being turned into a plaza and cutting off a vital transportation link and disrupting traffic isn't helping.

Go to the major shopping streets in the world and you can see they are really long (Oxford Street, Orchard Road, Yonge/Bloor etc), but also well connected by lots of buses and train/tram service.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Anecdotal evidence from a biased source is worth nothing. Do you have traffic counts under various road closure scenarios you can provide?

WarrenC12:
And you never questioned the following as "evidence from a biased source" and "is worth nothing"? I guess it fits your own "logic" so it's perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by csbvan

Robson was a relatively scantly utilized 'thoroughfare' at the Robson Square section, I worked and lived downtown for years, and has absolutely no baring on Georgia St traffic.

[EdinVan]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

Robson Street/Robson Square.

Beautiful ashphalt. World-class.

[VanK]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Anecdotal evidence from a biased source is worth nothing. Do you have traffic counts under various road closure scenarios you can provide?

@WarrenC12: No I have no traffic counts at all which I why I wrote IN MY OPINION. Unlike @ csbvan's post who said the road closure has ABSOLUTELY NO BARING on Georgia St. traffic... To say it absolutely no baring from completely shutting down Robson is quite bold (and without needing any traffic counts would say that statement is incorrect. to say absolutely no baring means not even ONE single car that would have traveled along Robson now travels on Georgia) I dont think we need bs traffic counts to figure that one out: (and yes not sure why WarrenC12 would not question that comment).

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by VanK

@WarrenC12: No I have no traffic counts at all which I why I wrote IN MY OPINION. Unlike @ csbvan's post who said the road closure has ABSOLUTELY NO BARING on Georgia St. traffic... To say it absolutely no baring from completely shutting down Robson is quite bold (and without needing any traffic counts would say that statement is incorrect. to say absolutely no baring means not even ONE single car that would have traveled along Robson now travels on Georgia) I dont think we need bs traffic counts to figure that one out: (and yes not sure why WarrenC12 would not question that comment).

You're saying we don't need any evidence to determine what's actually happening. That's an interesting way of looking at the world, certainly fits with the times.

Look, I don't have any specific evidence for this situation. However, as someone who specialized in transportation engineering and has a planning degree, I know that traffic is very elastic - people will readily change their behaviour due to changing circumstances. It is true that someone from Robson may now drive on Georgia. However, it is also possible that someone who used to drive on Georgia now no longer does so because they feel an increase in traffic. They may choose a different route, a different time, a different mode or may consolidate the trip. Overall, no change would be observed.

Like I said, there is no way to tell what is actually happening until you have actual facts, which means traffic counts.

[WarrenC12]

Opinions, as they say, are like assholes. Everybody's got one.

Traffic is indeed very elastic. I've seen countless predictions of traffic Armageddon that have not materialized. Likewise you just have to look at things like a simple $3 toll diverting people away from what is a great smooth commute across the new PMB.

As for the asphalt. It's temporary, and I think many here vastly overestimate the cost to lay it down. It all happened very quickly because it's pretty cheap and easy.

Here's some pricing for you:

http://www.barrie.ca/assets/engineering/nov2010/Appendix%20L%20-%20Costs%20per%20metre.pdf

[VanK]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

You're saying we don't need any evidence to determine what's actually happening. That's an interesting way of looking at the world, certainly fits with the times.

My reference to not needing a traffic count didn't refer to not needing traffic counts in general but only in reference to the comment that the closing of Robson didn't contribute to even ONE car being diverted to Georgia.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

You're saying we don't need any evidence to determine what's actually happening. That's an interesting way of looking at the world, certainly fits with the times.

Look, I don't have any specific evidence for this situation. However, as someone who specialized in transportation engineering and has a planning degree, I know that traffic is very elastic - people will readily change their behaviour due to changing circumstances. It is true that someone from Robson may now drive on Georgia. However, it is also possible that someone who used to drive on Georgia now no longer does so because they feel an increase in traffic. They may choose a different route, a different time, a different mode or may consolidate the trip. Overall, no change would be observed.

Like I said, there is no way to tell what is actually happening until you have actual facts, which means traffic counts.

I guess these delays are "natural"?

http://globalnews.ca/news/3174037/4-metr...-20-worst-traffic-bottlenecks-in-canada/
"Two Vancouver locations fell within the top 10 worst bottlenecks and were identified as producing the slowest driving speeds in the country." Guess what? One of the stretches is W. Georgia between Seymour and Denman.

Why take away a road parallel to one of the worst bottleneck stretches in this entire country? Traffic engineer, what do you say?

[officedweller]

I usually take Pender if coming from Stanley Park causeway and just traversing downtown.
It's free flowing )(other than lights) on weekends. Not sure about weekdays.

************

Pic by me today of The Smithe site demolition.
Doubt they'll try to remove the red maple trees intact for transplanting elsewhere, but curious if they'd try to.
They usually had white leaf mold/fungus, but are otherwise look healthy.

[mezzanine]

When there was all-vehicle traffic on 800 Robson, it would gum up at the PM rush anyway as the line up for car traffic to turn right on howe would be significantly delayed with all the foot traffic, even with the right turn signal. That would in turn foul up the #5 trolley bus as they couldn't bypass the right turn lane once more than 2 -3 cars were waiting to turn right.

Just my opinion, but I do not see how opening 800 robson back again would improve traffic significantly, especially when the public and the DVBIA really like the pedestrian-only changes.

[Vancouver_Highrise]

The davie and bidwell buildings are being demo'd right now for the Safeway redevelopment. The mayor actually walked right by to check it out..

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise

The davie and bidwell buildings are being demo'd right now for the Safeway redevelopment. The mayor actually walked right by to check it out..

The Davie Safeway shutdown already?

[Vancouver_Highrise]

It looks like they are going to phase the project and maybe develop the one tower on Davie and bidwell and develop the second half after? The bc liquor store and Safeway are still open.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise

The davie and bidwell buildings are being demo'd right now for the Safeway redevelopment. The mayor actually walked right by to check it out..

No that's not for the Safeway project. That's for the one beside it