The Ugly Canada Thread

[kwoldtimer]

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[hipster duck]

That first building was a late 19th century version of a poorly executed condo tower that we make fun of in the Proposals thread.

It's charming, because it's old and has Victorian detailing and craftsmanship, but it's also kind of a hot mess of clashing styles.

[kwoldtimer]

[QUOTE=hipster duck;7891698]That first building was a late 19th century version of a poorly executed condo tower that we make fun of in the Proposals thread.

It's charming, because it's old and has Victorian detailing and craftsmanship, but it's also kind of a hot mess of clashing styles.[/QUOTE]

Intentionally so, no? Late Victorian esthetics were awfully "busy" by today's standards.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

I'm surprised they even went with such a concept. Even in the best case I'm sure people would confuse it for being neglected. Should've just kept it simple, trail with vegetation off to the sides.

I find the older building in the first picture to look odd also. Too standoutish.

That's the old Simmons mattress factory. It has a cafe, bakery and restaurant with a rooftop patio. It's amazing inside. It's kind of the heart of the East village and it would be sterile without it.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by niwell

So I finally got to visit the East Village riverwalk in Calgary during Summer. I expected a lot based on pics, and based on how much I know the city treats it's riverfront. Was sorely disappointed. The path was great, but the riverfront itself didn't look so good. Based on the rendering I get that they wanted native vegetation to grow through the granite slabs.




But instead I found this:








It may be hard to tell from the pics, but most of those plants are weeds. It reminded me of how Toronto can deal with excellently designed new parks once they are done.

Surprised to see you post East Village Riverwalk on here. Did you visit St. Patrick's island?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Surprised to see you post East Village Riverwalk on here. Did you visit St. Patrick's island?

It's not ugly per se - just I expected a lot more. Looks quite neglected right now, which is a common complaint about well designed new parks here.

Didn't visit St Patrick's island this trip - I did make it to the National Music Centre though, which is an amazing facility. Except for the fact that some of the tiles near the top do in fact look a bit off.

[christmas]

These guys are dissing on Canada by saying it's boring after visiting the rural areas of Nova Scotia -- go show some Canadian support:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emk-XPLZvC0

[someone123]

Well, they say that there is less to do in Nova Scotia than there is to do in Seoul. This is easy to believe; Seoul has nearly as many people in it as all of Canada. But they also point out that Canada is beautiful while Seoul has other drawbacks (obvious ones right now).

It's parochial to respond to something like that by saying that they just needed to go to Vancouver or wherever. In the scheme of things, Nova Scotia is much more similar to BC than it is to South Korea. Canada doesn't really have any big, exciting world cities. They are all fairly sedate. They also all have cold and/or grey weather in winter.

It is slightly annoying how they went on about the "blizzards in April, nothing growing until the end of May!" thing. The spring weather in NS is not great but that's a pretty major exaggeration. According to Environment Canada, 10 cm of snow in April is a once every 20 year event in Halifax, and I'm not sure that can be described as a blizzard.

[christmas]

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, they say that there is less to do in Nova Scotia than there is to do in Seoul. This is easy to believe; Seoul has nearly as many people in it as all of Canada. But they also point out that Canada is beautiful while Seoul has other drawbacks (obvious ones right now).

It's parochial to respond to something like that by saying that they just needed to go to Vancouver or wherever. In the scheme of things, Nova Scotia is much more similar to BC than it is to South Korea. Canada doesn't really have any big, exciting world cities. They are all fairly sedate. They also all have cold and/or grey weather in winter.

It is slightly annoying how they went on about the "blizzards in April, nothing growing until the end of May!" thing. The spring weather in NS is not great but that's a pretty major exaggeration. According to Environment Canada, 10 cm of snow in April is a once every 20 year event in Halifax, and I'm not sure that can be described as a blizzard.

They kept repeating the word "Canada" -- as if conditions and their limited experience in NS represents the entirety of Canada. That's the big beef I have with that video. It's not just the Koreans and Canadians who watch that channel; people around the world who are interested in intercultural marriage watch it and I don't want the channel to give a false impression of Canada.

If anyone thinks Toronto is "boring" they probably aren't used to living a "city life". With all the international events that happen in Toronto, I don't think it falls behind Seoul (except transportation and technology maybe) culturally...

[lio45]

If anyone watches it and gets a "bad impression" of Canada from it, I'm sure their opinion will be completely reversed if only there were a handful of angry comments left about the video by the kind of people we discussed in this thread a few pages ago.

[someone123]

Over the years I've had multiple conversations about this with Chinese coworkers and grad students. It's something they bring up from time to time. They are generally from big cities like Shanghai or Hong Kong, and they view Vancouver or Toronto as relatively quiet. For a lot of them, the peacefulness and access to nature were positive aspects of living here. The city lovers, I'm guessing, are probably not that interested in Canada in the first place.

Amusingly I even recall somebody telling me that the Toronto evangelists had gotten to him, and told him that if he wanted big city excitement he should go there, not Vancouver. He said he lived in Shanghai before and nowhere in Canada really felt like a big city to him, and that's not what he was after anyway.

Toronto is smaller than Chinese cities most people here have never even heard of. It would be somewhere around #40 in Asia, and I'm guessing that Asian cities of a similar size tend to be much busier and have a lot more streetlife. Toronto is suburban and spread out compared to typical Asian urban areas, and most Canadian cities are relatively poor when it comes to nightlife and, really, any kind of urban activities. How many Torontonians are up at the cottage or out camping somewhere this weekend? Aside from young people, how many Torontonians go out on the town regularly?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by christmas

If anyone thinks Toronto is "boring" they probably aren't used to living a "city life". With all the international events that happen in Toronto, I don't think it falls behind Seoul (except transportation and technology maybe) culturally...

You have never been to a big Asian city.

[christmas]

Originally Posted by rousseau

You have never been to a big Asian city.

I've been to Okinawa and Tokyo.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by christmas

I've been to Okinawa and Tokyo.

No one who's been to Tokyo for more than three minutes and who has even the most cursory knowledge of Seoul would claim that Toronto doesn't "fall behind" Seoul in terms of "big city life."

That's just ridiculous. Toronto is a prairie village compared to Seoul or any other number of middling to large cities in Asia. There's literally no comparison. This is a ten-minute walk from Spadina: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6566068,-..._7LHuwtSd--aWoSBazCsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

As someone123 has already put it, anywhere in Canada is pastoral compared to Asia. With the possible exception of Montreal.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No one who's been to Tokyo for more than three minutes and who has even the most cursory knowledge of Seoul would claim that Toronto doesn't "fall behind" Seoul in terms of "big city life."

That's just ridiculous. Toronto is a prairie village compared to Seoul or any other number of middling to large cities in Asia. There's literally no comparison. This is a ten-minute walk from Spadina: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6566068,-..._7LHuwtSd--aWoSBazCsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

As someone123 has already put it, anywhere in Canada is pastoral compared to Asia. With the possible exception of Montreal.

I would have included Montreal. Our cities are not exactly teeming, by world standards. Many would consider that a good thing ...

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by rousseau

As someone123 has already put it, anywhere in Canada is pastoral compared to Asia. With the possible exception of Montreal.

I don't think Toronto feels small. When I'm stuck in 14 lanes of traffic on the 401 and there are slab highrises as far as the eye can see, I certainly don't think I'm in a pastoral place. I certainly don't think Toronto feels small compared to Montreal - I actually think it's the reverse.

Sure, Toronto doesn't have old residential neighbourhoods with midrise buildings that come right up to the sidewalk. But if that's our metric for "big city" than Montreal doesn't feel bigger than some random town in Spain. And then Los Angeles wouldn't feel big at all.

[MolsonExport]

Toronto is vibrant by North American Standards.
Toronto doesn't hold a candle to the teaming Asian cities of Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, and Osaka. There are very few cities that can. New York City. Paris. London. Istanbul. Perhaps a few others.

[hipster duck]

I think a "big city" feel is some combination of being hemmed in and also a sense of vastness.

In weird combinations, a place can feel relentlessly big because of the surrounding claustrophobia and density, but give hints that the "bigness" has limits. For example, if you look west down a cross-street in midtown Manhattan you'll see trees on the cliffs of Jersey, and you realize that the city ends. Similarly, on Hong Kong island, teeming neighbourhoods with 50,000+ people per square kilometer give way to the treed slopes of the Peak, and you can sense how finite the city is.

Toronto is at a weird psychological junction where the city's built form is kind of suburban and low slung, but there are reminders that the city goes on forever - when you see highrises in the distance, and you can see those everywhere. Sometimes on a promontory, you get the whole view of the region and it feels like a really enormous place.

[SignalHillHiker]

Were they born and raised in Seoul? That sort of attitude seems to be most common among people who grew up in the place they now find boring.

Agree that Toronto doesn't feel small, but also agree nothing in Canada compares with Seoul. Canadian cities drop off quickly and none are large enough to overwhelm. They're all manageable.

Density matters in terms of how large a place feels to me. That Los Angeles example - in parts, it just feels like Commonwealth Avenue in Mount Pearl goes on forever. I've been to suburban commercial parks in Markham with a bigger skyline than my city - but it certainly doesn't feel the same. I get the same strength of aversion from setbacks in residential areas. Might as well be a campground - it completely removes the mess of everyone living in everyone's lap that I really need, in my bones.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I don't think Toronto feels small. When I'm stuck in 14 lanes of traffic on the 401 and there are slab highrises as far as the eye can see, I certainly don't think I'm in a pastoral place.

Well, okay, that's a function of North American car culture. But as soon as you get off the 401 you're suddenly in Ann of Green Gables compared to anywhere in Asia. Example: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7397778,-...1ucL5UOcd3wlBL74Ul5BQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In Asia you have three-hour traffic jams, and when you get off the expressway you're here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@25.0779016,1...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Toronto is a country walk in the park compared with cities a tenth its size in Asia, never mind Taipei, Seoul, Tokyo, Beijing etc.