The Ugly Canada Thread

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I'll never forget having a casual conversation at an eatery with a couple originally from Ontario but now living somewhere on Vancouver Island. They had all of the zealotry of converts, reciting a (seemingly well-rehearsed) litany of reasons for why they were so happy to be living there. I politely agreed that the scenery was beautiful, but my lack of enthusiasm seemed to spur them into overdrive, and they harangued me about why a self-employed person with a home office without any geographical restrictions to the work did not move to BC this very minute. Almost like an SSP thread come to life, though more direct, less passive-aggressive.

lol

I can easily picture it... know exactly what you mean.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

lol

I can easily picture it... know exactly what you mean.

It seems to be a Canadian thing to ask visitors and others "wouldn't you just looooooooove to live where I do?"

Obviously it's not everyone (before anyone jumps) or even a daily, weekly or monthly thing, but it's IMO noticeably more common here than in other countries.

I mean, even when they find out I'm from frigid Canada, Californians, Floridians, Australians, etc. *never* make comments that would indicate they assume that I'd looooove to switch places with them.

[Franco401]

Former 19th-Century mill town+Postmodern era of architecture+Tim Horton's=

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.9783092,-...ZpTlA8AK1QoRw8G9do4PQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This is how heritage guidelines work, right?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Former 19th-Century mill town+Postmodern era of architecture+Tim Horton's=

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.9783092,-...ZpTlA8AK1QoRw8G9do4PQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This is how heritage guidelines work, right?

The neighbouring gas stations are heritage structures?

[Echoes]

Double post.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It seems to be a Canadian thing to ask visitors and others "wouldn't you just looooooooove to live where I do?"

Obviously it's not everyone (before anyone jumps) or even a daily, weekly or monthly thing, but it's IMO noticeably more common here than in other countries.

I mean, even when they find out I'm from frigid Canada, Californians, Floridians, Australians, etc. *never* make comments that would indicate they assume that I'd looooove to switch places with them.

I'm a bit leery when I meet other Canadians abroad because of tiresome experiences like this.

I can meet a Swede or a Slovak or a Sri Lankan and they all inevitably react: "Canada! I love Canada! *Insert reference to a Canadian celebrity, stereotype, or the weather here*" It doesn't often go any deeper than that -- we're all Canadians to them, there's no distinction.

But when it's a Canadian, I brace myself for the "Whereabouts are you from?" talk and the haughty condescension that too often follows (based on where they're from).

It's not that it plays out like this every time, it's just that it's happened enough for me to expect that's how it will play out. Which is too bad.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I mean, even when they find out I'm from frigid Canada, Californians, Floridians, Australians, etc. *never* make comments that would indicate they assume that I'd looooove to switch places with them.

Actually, I have to say I do get some teasing from Floridians once in a while (when I'm back home in Quebec during wintertime) but it's always on a tone that's not very serious and clearly meant to tease.

While these guys rousseau met... were actually not joking. Yeah, it does seem to be a Canadian thing.

By contrast, my relatives on the French Riviera seem to have the opposite point of view - "don't live here, it's so crowded and unaffordable nowadays, it sucks, the good old days were much better".

(And that's by most standards a more desirable place to live than anywhere in Canada, so if they wanted to have a "I'm sure you're secretly wishing you'd move here" attitude, they could justify it.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Echoes

But when it's a Canadian, I brace myself for the "Whereabouts are you from?" talk and the haughty condescension that too often follows (based on where they're from).

It's not that it plays out like this every time, it's just that it's happened enough for me to expect that's how it will play out. Which is too bad.

You could lie if you wanted, though. Is there any location in Canada that would be immune to haughty condescension? You could say you're from Victoria, BC. That would probably be your best bet. I don't see why anyone from anywhere in the country would have a beef against that relaxed, peaceful, clean city on its own island. Just learn a few basics about the city and its neighborhoods and you're good to go.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

You could lie if you wanted, though. Is there any location in Canada that would be immune to haughty condescension? You could say you're from Victoria, BC. That would probably be your best bet. I don't see why anyone from anywhere in the country would have a beef against that relaxed, peaceful, clean city on its own island. Just learn a few basics about the city and its neighborhoods and you're good to go.

I've heard people say that Victoria is boring.

And that's it's too white and doesn't have enough diversity (especially not enough Asians).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually, I have to say I do get some teasing from Floridians once in a while (when I'm back home in Quebec during wintertime) but it's always on a tone that's not very serious and clearly meant to tease.

While these guys rousseau met... were actually not joking. Yeah, it does seem to be a Canadian thing.

By contrast, my relatives on the French Riviera seem to have the opposite point of view - "don't live here, it's so crowded and unaffordable nowadays, it sucks, the good old days were much better".

(And that's by most standards a more desirable place to live than anywhere in Canada, so if they wanted to have a "I'm sure you're secretly wishing you'd move here" attitude, they could justify it.)

True about people in rich places with warmer climates - they often tease us about the weather here. But in my experience it never goes as far as to say "doncha you wish you lived here?", although this could simply be because people in these areas think their area is already overpopulated and don't want any more newcomers...

Still, it seems like no one in Paris or New York or Copenhagen ever seems to ask that type of question either.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by lio45

You could lie if you wanted, though. Is there any location in Canada that would be immune to haughty condescension? You could say you're from Victoria, BC. That would probably be your best bet. I don't see why anyone from anywhere in the country would have a beef against that relaxed, peaceful, clean city on its own island. Just learn a few basics about the city and its neighborhoods and you're good to go.

Lying never occurred to me! I think I could get by as an Ottawa local given the amount of time I spend there, but I suppose I would open myself up to all sorts of contempt from other Canadians doing that.

But really, I would never want to lie. I just want to have a friendly conversation about where you're from, and what's going on in your part of the country, and what's different and what's the same and how's the beer scene out there? Mixed in with some friendly jabs about our respective regions of course. All this, without the sneering.

I expect that we SSPers are among those that have a better understanding of (and interest in) Canadian geography and all of its regions and cities than the average Canuck. So expecting to have a rewarding conversation like I've imagined above is probably too much to expect all the time. So failing that, a polite "Nice to meet you!" and a cheers will do. Leave it at that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Echoes

I expect that we SSPers are among those that have a better understanding of (and interest in) Canadian geography and all of its regions and cities than the average Canuck. .

Yes, the level of knowledge and interest in Canada coast-to-coast is much higher on SSP than in the overall population.

[rousseau]

There is geographical specificity about this brand of Canadian ugliness when it comes up. The scenario I described above is patented in the "Best Place on Earth." With people from Alberta I think it is (was?) more class-based: if you are a blue-collar guy you should go where the jobs are to make boatloads of money in the oil economy, but if you are a professional or otherwise in a solid career then that's fair enough (though where you live can't possibly be very "dynamic"). Quebeckers think anglo Canada is bland and uninteresting, but, perhaps outside of certain neighbourhoods in Montreal, they don't think you should move there. Actually, it's actively the opposite: you shouldn't move there. Unless you're from France.

In Toronto the alpha city snootiness is faintly ridiculous because the city doesn't have the pull or stature of a New York or London. Though my impression is that most people in Toronto are aware enough of this so as to have a fairly measured sense of how much condescension might be appropriate for the rubes. Because you could get so easily tripped up.

A: I'm from Saskatchewan originally.
B: Oh yeah? Living here now? What do you think of life in the big city?
A: No, just visiting. I've lived in LA for years.

As for the rest of the country, I don't think there's much condescension to be had. Instead, those areas are "friendly."

[MolsonExport]

^agreed on all counts.

"dynamic", "Can-do": Haven't heard these as much since oil prices went into the toilet (concomitantly, certain forumers being a bit more quiet). Thankfully, because it had reached nauseating proportions from certain posters.

BC's "Best place on Earth" slogan was the most explicitly obnoxious official boosterism in living memory.

The snootiness of Montrealers regarding Toronto/Ontario (particularly the culture/vibrancy, or perceived lack thereof) is legendary, especially among my home tribe of Anglo-Quebeckers. Towards Canadians living in 'lesser cities', some Torontonians (particularly their media, e.g., the TSN [Toronto Sports Network]) project a phony cosmopolitanism a la New York. When I lived in BC, many Vancouverites deried the rest of the country as frigid, boring, and non-scenic. If you thought otherwise, they would try to make you drink more of the "Best stuff[place] on earth" Koolaid.

Nobody in London (Ontario) tries to convince you it is the best place to live. We know that it is not. At best, a twist on that old saying "London is a great place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit there."

[MolsonExport]

Still the ugliest thing I've seen on the Canadian forum is with respect to a brand of certain Trump supporters/apologists, calling him a "breath of fresh air".

I might have vomited in my mouth the first time I read this in the Canada forum.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Still the ugliest thing I've seen on the Canadian forum is with respect to a brand of certain Trump supporters/apologists, calling him a "breath of fresh air".

I might have vomited in my mouth the first time I read this in the Canada forum.

Migs may have disappeared from here but if you were to see his Twitter feed that vomiting sensation would surely return.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

There is geographical specificity about this brand of Canadian ugliness when it comes up. The scenario I described above is patented in the "Best Place on Earth." With people from Alberta I think it is (was?) more class-based: if you are a blue-collar guy you should go where the jobs are to make boatloads of money in the oil economy, but if you are a professional or otherwise in a solid career then that's fair enough (though where you live can't possibly be very "dynamic"). Quebeckers think anglo Canada is bland and uninteresting, but, perhaps outside of certain neighbourhoods in Montreal, they don't think you should move there. Actually, it's actively the opposite: you shouldn't move there. Unless you're from France.

In Toronto the alpha city snootiness is faintly ridiculous because the city doesn't have the pull or stature of a New York or London. Though my impression is that most people in Toronto are aware enough of this so as to have a fairly measured sense of how much condescension might be appropriate for the rubes. Because you could get so easily tripped up.

A: I'm from Saskatchewan originally.
B: Oh yeah? Living here now? What do you think of life in the big city?
A: No, just visiting. I've lived in LA for years.

As for the rest of the country, I don't think there's much condescension to be had. Instead, those areas are "friendly."

I still get a sense that, compared to other nationalities I am familiar with, many Canadians do have strong need for "validation from others" when it comes to a number of things, and this includes the places where they live.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by rousseau

In Toronto the alpha city snootiness is faintly ridiculous because the city doesn't have the pull or stature of a New York or London. Though my impression is that most people in Toronto are aware enough of this so as to have a fairly measured sense of how much condescension might be appropriate for the rubes. Because you could get so easily tripped up.

I've actually had the good fortune of meeting more pleasant Torontonians abroad than the opposite. But if I do meet a snooty self-identifying Torontonian, I can often trip them up like so:

TO: "I live in Toronto." (self-righteously)
Me: "Love Toronto! Live Downtown?"
TO: "Uhh, Aurora."
Me: "Well, that's not really Toronto is it?" (implying: you're not nearly as impressive as you make yourself out to be)

[240glt]

Edmontonians are the worst with regards to this phenomena

Divided north-south by the river, The south is the "good" side and the north is the "bad" side

When you run across a particularly indignant south sider they'll tell you all about how the south is so much better than the north

Dude, you live in Edmonton. It's all north side

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Edmontonians are the worst with regards to this phenomena

Divided north-south by the river, The south is the "good" side and the north is the "bad" side

When you run across a particularly indignant south sider they'll tell you all about how the south is so much better than the north

Dude, you live in Edmonton. It's all north side

Hah! Hadn't considered the intra-city thing yet.

In Saskatoon it's east side (affluent) vs. west side (poor trash and thugs) with a small third dynamic with the north end. Northenders are affluent like the eastsiders, but the eastsiders think they're a bit off, being all alone up there like that.

Not being native to Saskatoon, I roll my eyes and laugh.

Then there's the "City kids" (Saskatoon and Regina) vs. the "Country kids". As if a Saskatonian is inherently so much more urbane. If you grew up in Saskatoon and your family is a couple generations deep in the province, there's almost no way you're not 1 degree of separation from a family farm or some redneck relatives that you don't like to talk about.